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| Thread: Some early perceptions of hero skills & haven core units | |
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted October 17, 2011 04:54 AM |
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Edited by SKPRIMUS at 04:56, 17 Oct 2011.
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Some early perceptions of hero skills & haven core units
I didn't play beta/demo & many of you probably thought the same at some point or another, it'd be interesting if it will stay like this:
Enlightenment: gives +25% XP and looking at XP vs levelling chart, you'd be one level ahead most of the time so why wouldn't every main hero have this since extra level makes up for selecting the skill plus there is a stat boost from an extra level.
Mentoring: available at level 5 & makes another hero at least 75% xp when they meet which means secondaries are mostly just 1 level below main...so why not choose it all the time on main?
Diplomat: discount on joiners...yes please since joiners don't seem to ask for an exhorbitant amount like H5 and only ask for normal price.
Mentoring bunch of secondary heroes to all get Economist & Architect skills plus logistics/snatch/pathfinding and esp since Architect I (+1 growth to each creature type in town) stacks for every hero and Economist II for extra marketplaces...
Are they not a bit cheesy when game lasts more than 1 month?
Tavern heroes not always level 1 but 5 levels below your main?
Lose only 25% troops when fleeing?
I'd like to know if game designers intend to keep it this way as it seems way too cheesy & would it be useful to do this every game if it's not a legitimate tactic?
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some artis (eg guardian armor?), abilities that prevent any harm at certain points...wow that can be situationally great/bad sometimes
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haven's 3 core units, even not upgraded, seem to be ideal for creeping...
range unit without range penalty
melee unit shares damage with adjacent units & ability stacks if more than one stack of them
healer unit with 2 heals per battle
and with defend command giving +10 defence which is a great amount early.
it's as if someone wished for the 3 abilities that would make creeping the best early on
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 17, 2011 06:45 AM |
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I dont think there is anything wrong w/ enlightenment or diplomacy.. on certain maps diplo might even be crap(e.g. you are haven and you randomly get a lot of necro neutrals on the map - they won't join even if you have diplo). Enlightenment is worth getting, but barely. Certainly not overpowered. Spend a point to gain a level so it's almost a wash on your main hero (only benefit there is stat gains). Helps your secondaries a little if you couple it w/ mentor.
Mentor is really strong I agree. Esp. if you are chaining armies around a lot to clear asap instead of fighting everything on main (MP vs. SP basically)
Economist is really good for secondaries if map is poor/moderate, agreed on that.
I think architect is another single player vs. multiplayer skill. In theory you would have like 5 heroes sitting around your castles boosting growth across the board by 5, but that would only work in SP where your secondary heroes rarely need to leave a castle.
@ immune artys.. I've only had one so far, the one where you are immune to the first 3 attacks.. seems a little crazy. One good thing is that you can build artifact merchant upgrade to the marketplace in every town, so if the map is big and both players have 2 or 3 then good chance both mains will be stacked in good artys.. hopefully will even things out.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted October 17, 2011 08:21 AM |
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@bluecamel, I didn't say enlightenment was overpowered, just that probably gets picked first every game.
I suppose easily choosable mentoring is the biggie here
Architect level 1 (+1 creature growth) doesn't need to stay in castle tho & applies to core/elite/champs equally.
And yep, some are ok in multiplayer if the game does not go on for too long.
The main question for me is will these things stay this way or change?
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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ledger
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 17, 2011 09:32 AM |
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Edited by ledger at 09:32, 17 Oct 2011.
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I do feel like the following skills should all be put under the 'Realm' tab:
- Diplomat
- Enlightenment
- Logistics
- Pathfinding
- Snatch
- Mentoring
Then
A hero would gain 1 extra skill point that can be only used on Realm skills every 5 levels.
The reasons are obvious, but to state them anyways:
- No stagnation in early game skill choices and more diverse strategic openings from the get go.
- No early cheesy secondary heroes with mentoring architect madness.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted October 17, 2011 09:58 AM |
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Mentoring is one of the lamer-friendly features in the game, yes. You can use it ti spawn not only economy-boosting secondaries but also secondaries for harassment which are way more effective than your regular secondary hero would be without the skill - that means too effective. Initially the amount of XP transferred was 50%, not 75% and that was nearly OK (I'd say that 30-40% would be the ideal numbers), no idea why they changed it.
As for the Haven Cores - it's already been discussed numerous times that Haven has a very good start but so do Necropolis and to a bit lesser extent - Sanctuary. It's all about this healing madness and no so much about Haven's ability to re-distribute the damage via the Sentinels/Praetorians although the latter does serve its purpose very well.
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bluecamel
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 17, 2011 10:57 AM |
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Quote:
Architect level 1 (+1 creature growth) doesn't need to stay in castle tho & applies to core/elite/champs equally.
I thought skill says that hero needs to be "near castle". Don't have it in front of me so I need to double check.
I think we all agree mentoring is too strong at least.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted October 17, 2011 11:01 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Architect level 1 (+1 creature growth) doesn't need to stay in castle tho & applies to core/elite/champs equally.
I thought skill says that hero needs to be "near castle". Don't have it in front of me so I need to double check.
I think we all agree mentoring is too strong at least.
The hero has to be in the control zone of the city. Move to another zone and he'll apply the growth to the city controlling that zone (unless the player doesn't control it).
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted October 17, 2011 03:57 PM |
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Edited by SKPRIMUS at 20:51, 20 Oct 2011.
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@Zenofex, can you point me to any detailed discussion about haven core starts?
I'm sure many have discussed it & would like to read it...
but it isn't "all" about the healing part I think, it's the way all core 3 units, even non-upgraded, help turtle very well (add AA ability & dmg reduction) with no losses vs creeps (eg. 3 stacks sentinels which mainly defend, 2 stacks sisters which mainly defend or heal, 1 stack xbows which can shoot with pressed attack...and then even might hero may use regen/heal if necessary)
@ledger, yep possibly having some limitation some skills choices may be an option.
@Nelgirith, thanks for clarification about "in the area", I'm a bit unsure myself now after a test in single player offline & saw no change in kingdomn overview screen after I hired 4 heroes.
my main question ofc is wondering whether any of this will be changed & how.
edit: atm, looks like Architect I only works if one has external creature dwellings like barrack or keep
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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