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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Kha-Beleth Origin (conspiracy theory)
Thread: Kha-Beleth Origin (conspiracy theory)
Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


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posted November 05, 2011 07:31 PM

Kha-Beleth Origin (conspiracy theory)

So. What is this topic about then.

Well Most of tehpeople here know who is Kha-Beleth, But no one REALLY know who he is, or was befor he became Kha-Beleth.

But I have my own theory who he is. Based on the same rule that we can observe in the Agrale/Realag example.

While I was updating my old translations for Heroes-centum (6 years do make a lot of difference in one mans language skills), I have came across the name "Belketh" (for information, it is the person who discovered the path of Necromancy in 461 YSD)

Belketh > K.-Beleth

Is this a coincidence? Was Nival so short of names that they made two so similar?

This IS just a theory, but if  you asked me, Who do I think Kha-Beletk is or was, I know where my money would go.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


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posted November 05, 2011 07:40 PM

If you have your own theory, share it if you want

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xerox
xerox


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posted November 05, 2011 07:57 PM

When they made up the Demon Sovereign, they originally named him Mal-Beleth. Also there is zero evidence for this, and I don't where such a plot twist would fit in H6. I think it's far fetched.

I like the idea that Kha-Beleth has some mysterious origin though.

Another idea I like is that when Sar-Elam sacrificed himself, his soul was pulled into Sheogh and he became some sort of future villian. When I think about it, it could make sense for Kha-Beleth to be Sar-Elam since in Dark Messiah, Sar-Elams dragon skull is used to summon Kha-Beleth.
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War-overlord
War-overlord


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posted November 07, 2011 09:53 AM

Not quite, Xerox. The Skull is not used to summon the Demon Sovereign. It is used to either destroy the prison of Sheogh the skull, or it's creator, had made or to reinforce that prison.
Kha-Beleth could come into Ashan without much effort because in the Catacombs of Stonehelm there is a gate to Sheogh. Unless there was an eclipse he could not come out that gate, but there is no restriction to him coming to the gate.

As for the Theory that Kha-Beleth used to be Belketh. I'd say it is possible but I find it unlikely. Other than the similarity in their names, there's not much going for it. People do not end up in Sheogh without reason and so far we've no reason to assume that with Belketh. Usually they end there by selling their souls to Demons or by openly worshipping Urgash. It's not like Hell, were you are sent to because you've been bad in life.
I think that if Belketh is going to be tied to anything, it's likely still the necromancers.
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Sleeping_Sun
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posted November 07, 2011 12:56 PM

Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJWQVwl74Lw at 5:29 we can see this:
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg684/scaled.php?server=684&filename=khabelethorigin.png&res=medium
I believe this text implies, in a way, that Kha-Beleth was a wizard before he became the sovereign of demons...
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War-overlord
War-overlord


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posted November 07, 2011 01:17 PM

Quote:
Here:
I believe this text implies, in a way, that Kha-Beleth was a wizard before he became the sovereign of demons...


Perhaps, or he is just very decadent.
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DoubleDeck
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posted November 07, 2011 02:32 PM

I don't think we should over analyse the origins of Kha-Beleth...the story of Ashan is very simple:

After the 1st Blood Moon Eclipse (330 YSD), the 6 demon overlords were cast down and all surviving demons were banished back to Sheogh. Now when the 2nd Blood Moon Eclipse came (564 YSD - Heroes VI), the names of the 6 demon overlords are heard no more, instead a new and only demon sovereign is heard of now, Kha-Beleth.

So I interpret this as somehow the 6 demon overlords morphed and through the chaos, Kha-Beleth was created.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


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posted November 07, 2011 04:28 PM

Quote:
So I interpret this as somehow the 6 demon overlords morphed and through the chaos, Kha-Beleth was created.


You obviously have not played Heroes 6 yet. The 6 Overlords are still the ones that rule Sheogh, yet Kha-Beleth is already there, plotting his rise to the throne. So the 6 overlords cannot simply become Kha-Beleth.
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kodial79
kodial79


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posted November 07, 2011 04:39 PM

Why Kha-Beleth has to be an already existing character? It makes for a cheap plot twist. Instead of trying to introduce such a trick, they should take care to develop his character more cause the way he was thrown into the story now, is incoherent.
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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


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posted November 08, 2011 04:12 PM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 16:14, 08 Nov 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
So I interpret this as somehow the 6 demon overlords morphed and through the chaos, Kha-Beleth was created.


You obviously have not played Heroes 6 yet. The 6 Overlords are still the ones that rule Sheogh, yet Kha-Beleth is already there, plotting his rise to the throne. So the 6 overlords cannot simply become Kha-Beleth.


You misunderstood me, it is during Heroes 6 (564 YSD) that the 6 demon overlords start to not be heard anymore, and Kha-Beleth takes over.....so IN Heroes 6, they still exist...but in Heroes 5, we only hear about Kha-Beleth, not them...

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War-overlord
War-overlord


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posted November 08, 2011 04:15 PM

Quote:
You misunderstood me, it is during Heroes 6 (564 YSD) that the 6 demon overlords start to not be heard anymore, and Kha-Beleth takes over.....so IN Heroes 6, they still exist...but in Heroes 5, we only hear about Kha-Beleth, not them...


That's likely due to the fact that you've made it seem like you suggested that the 6 Overlords and Kha-Beleth become the same entity.
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Raelag84
Raelag84


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posted November 08, 2011 09:29 PM

I have yet to play heroes six, but until I hear something different I am going to assume that the demon sovereign was a demon who somehow amassed the power to overthrow the 6 demon overlords.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


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posted November 08, 2011 10:14 PM

Quote:
I have yet to play heroes six, but until I hear something different I am going to assume that the demon sovereign was a demon who somehow amassed the power to overthrow the 6 demon overlords.

He's clearly not a demon. He's way too clever to be one

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Raelag84
Raelag84


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posted November 08, 2011 10:31 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I have yet to play heroes six, but until I hear something different I am going to assume that the demon sovereign was a demon who somehow amassed the power to overthrow the 6 demon overlords.

He's clearly not a demon. He's way too clever to be one


Any other reason to think he is not a demon?

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


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posted November 09, 2011 07:31 AM

Quote:
I have yet to play heroes six, but until I hear something different I am going to assume that the demon sovereign was a demon who somehow amassed the power to overthrow the 6 demon overlords.

Kha-Beleth rose to power shortly after the disappearance of the 6 Demon Overlords...
What is uncertain is whether or not he played a part in their vanishing.


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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


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posted November 09, 2011 08:53 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I have yet to play heroes six, but until I hear something different I am going to assume that the demon sovereign was a demon who somehow amassed the power to overthrow the 6 demon overlords.

He's clearly not a demon. He's way too clever to be one


Any other reason to think he is not a demon?


If you do not accept that he simply does not fit in the "Demon" category, just by the way he is presented, due to his mentality. Look at the links Sleeping_Sun has posted. They are from Heroes VI and strongly suggest that he is not of Sheog origin. But from Ashan. The Fact that his house is decorated in a Wizards style, gives a little safe ground fo my Theory.

I think Sheog society befor Kha-Beleth was not that different from Dwarven one. Devided into 6 "Groups" that used the war against mortal races to gain prestige and enforce there position in the society.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


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posted November 09, 2011 10:01 AM
Edited by DoubleDeck at 10:02, 09 Nov 2011.

I think Kha-Beleth is demon through and through and was born in Sheogh.

The six demon overlords were:

- Ur-Jubaal : Overlord of Madness – Maniacs serve him
- Ur-Vomoch : Overlord of Voracity – Hellhounds serve him
- Ur-Traggal : Overlord of Pain – Tormentor serve him
- Ur-Krag : Overlord of Destruction – Juggernauts serve him
- Ur-Mespharoth : Overlord of Proliferation – Breeder serve him
- Ur-Hekal : Overlord of Hate – Pit fiend serve him

Could it no be that Kha-Beleth is one of the overlords? Ur-Hekal, Over lord of Hate? The highest position?

Also, interesting post from Sylath's outwatch:

As the first Demon Sovereign of Sheogh, Mal-Beleth was the predecessor of Kha-Beleth. He is not seen in the games, but is referenced there, and is directly mentioned in the Timeline of Ashan.
In the Heroes V town description for the Inferno, Ur-Vesphaal, it is mentioned that "Ur-Vesphaal is the former Demon capital, first the residence and later the mausoleum of the current Sovereign’s predecessor. When the Sovereign killed him and moved the seat of power away, Ur-Vesphaal was slowly taken over by what was left of the competing army -- succubae. Now it’s their town."
According to this, Mal-Beleth was slain by Kha-Beleth (the exact year is unknown, but seems to have been between 564 and 843 Y.S.D.). Mal-Beleth is also referenced in the Hammers of Fate custom scenario, In Search of Power. This scenario also introduces Veyer, and Kha-Beleth, seemingly fresh from murdering Mal-Beleth (though this isn't directly referenced here, it is mentioned that the "Demon Sovereign" died before the scenario's opening).
It's possible, though unlikely, that he was the Sovereign who appeared at the conclusion of Jezebeth's scenario, Falcon's Last Flight, in the original Heroes V.
It is also possible (though improbable) that Mal-Beleth was simply a typo for the name Kha-Beleth, but it has since been revealed that there are multiple Demon Sovereigns, the first of whom is dead. Mal-Beleth is cited as this first Sovereign.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


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posted November 09, 2011 12:36 PM

Not I am not saying what DoubleDeck said is untrue, keep that in mind.
But I seem to recall that the name Mal-Beleth was the original name of Kha-Beleth. They intended to call him that and later retconned all later references to Mal-Beleth they forgot to take out. I cannot recall exactly where and when that happend and we should ask Cepheus about that, who actually keeps track of such things.
In fact, I'll invite him, after I post this, to shine his better documented light over this issue.
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