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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: Haven mage 4-5 towns build tactic
Thread: Haven mage 4-5 towns build tactic This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted November 07, 2011 04:34 PM

Haven mage 4-5 towns build tactic

On Tree of Plenty map player can get in his possession lots of towns (4-5). Resources are limited, you can't build all, buy all ... As Haven mage what dwellings will build you in this towns, all towns to be build ? Economists please show your skill
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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 08, 2011 04:12 AM

I think most of us are more interested to see your skill.
not just this topic either.
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted November 08, 2011 07:50 AM

Quote:
I think most of us are more interested to see your skill.
not just this topic either.

Skill ? What do you mean ?

On topic - I think for Haven mage top priority is to build in all towns vestals and glories ... For the rest Angels are good too but are so resource demanding. To build or not to build Angels ? To focus on build one fully equipped town with tear of asha as program maximum ... Or a little bit buildings in this town, little bit in another ... From what i seen on this map if you attempt to build everything every were is hi risk to loose game to well done rush ...
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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 08, 2011 07:25 PM

Quote:
...Skill ? What do you mean ?...
I meant many "pro" players don't post much on forums about strategy & tactics --> gives impression that competition/winning is so important & don't want to help others or don't want to seem wrong.

There are exceptions like Elvin & feluniobunioz & Towerlord ofc.

Even your answer on the topic is very vague...I'm sure you have better idea than 95% people on this forum at the moment...you'd never fully build up all as not enough resources to hire them all & town portals expensive no?...vestals & glories priority due to magic-based damage, elites do more damage than champions in this game but griffins are bugged, then angels but too much depends on what enemy is doing & enemy type of hero (can even mentor a different main hero with virtually same level in this game, just without reputation).

Haven't played this map but if external creature dwellings for elite/angel, then all one need is many secondary heroes with Architect I and only 2 towns.
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted November 11, 2011 02:49 PM

Haven't played the map but it stands to reason that the more the towns, the safer it is to stack on core creatures, whether might or magic hero. If you also take into account +hp arties and convertion..

But I would be more concerned about how fast you can get extra towns, whether you can afford to convert them, whether there are elite/champion dwellings and more importantly how fast the opponent can attack you. If you can force conflict early the whole discussion is rather pointless.
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 11, 2011 04:52 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 16:58, 11 Nov 2011.

Haven has a relatively universal build no matter the map so it's just a matter of maximizing its efficiency. Sentinels, Sisters and Glories are usually the top priorities although the Crossbowmen are not far behind at all. Under normal circumstances I won't go for fast Seraphs because they mostly soak damage but can't return much - something which a Sentinel/Praetorian-based turtle already does on its own. The Griffins however behave like an ad hoc shooter and are pretty useful for defensive formations so I'll most likely pick them relatively early. The same pattern is to a large extent repeated in the other captured/converted towns, if the opponent allows you of course.
In other news Haven is overpowered against everything bar maybe Necropolis so you'll have greater difficulties finding an inefficient build.

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forest001
forest001


Known Hero
posted November 11, 2011 05:00 PM

i wouldn't say that build is universal, don't think glories are best choice if you are might hero... but on the other hand non upgrade raiders don't have charge bonus , and upgraded griffins can't use their special which is really sad.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 11, 2011 05:07 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 17:08, 11 Nov 2011.

Might or Magic, the Glories can decimate half of the enemy army on their own just by staying behind the Praetorians and picking targets. It's as simple as getting Tactics, placing them behind a meat shield (Praetorians, usually with Guardian Angel cast on them and suddenly the opponent does some laughable damage) and then bleeding the enemy with the Marksmen and the Griffins until he gets pissed off, moves forward with his melee troops and gets slaughtered. Only much superior ranged troops on the other side could make this risky but only Necropolis has access to such.

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G0b1in
G0b1in


Adventuring Hero
posted November 11, 2011 07:22 PM

well Stronghold has some good shooters aswell - both Enraged Cyclops and Centaur have higher initiative than Fate Spinner - they only fall behind Necro coz of their insane healing.

But back on topic i agree - Glories + Pretorians can decimate most oposition. marksmen are good if you can abuse their Piercing Bolt ability - i like to send in Pretorians and let oponent attack with several creatures, then casting Guardian Angel on them and shoot enemy witouth worry of losing them. You can also split Marksmen into 2 stacks placing each in one end of deployment zone (using tactics), so there's no escape from their crossbows of doom
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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 11, 2011 07:51 PM

Stronghold will need quite some time before it can get Enraged Cyclopes, until then their only decent shooter is the Centaur and that won't be enough against the Haven turtle. Necropolis on the other hand has much earlier access to Liches and the Fate Spinners are the best ranged creature in the game + both of these have "Dark" attack source which hurts the Glories badly.

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G0b1in
G0b1in


Adventuring Hero
posted November 11, 2011 09:23 PM

Fate Spinner is weak im Melee compared to Cyclops tho and can't start combat in shooting form - at least to my knowladge - so if you close in on them on turn 2, idealy right when oponent already changed them to shooters they are in serious trouble - healing biggest advantage Necro has atm. imo

but well Necro always was OP - in H3 and in H5 whenewer i wanted to have fun i choose Stronghold, when i wanted to win i choose Necro -

haven't played them much this time around yet tho, but seems to me Necro will again be on top - with Heaven not much behind - from my experience so far Heaven has best chances to beat them among other 4 factions. Even taking into account that Imperial Griffin's dive dosen't work and neither does Sun Crusader's charge, while Necro abilities work even better than they should


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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted November 11, 2011 09:44 PM
Edited by infinitus at 21:46, 11 Nov 2011.

Idea of this topic is coming from my game vs Vetalkl on Tree of Plenty map. After this game my visions about H6 game strategy has changed a lot. Mirror game Haven-Haven. First surprise came then my scouts seen first time his main hero, level 26 hero vs my level 20 hero ! How ??? As usual i took for my hero marksman specialty. His hero have enhanced enlightenment specialty. Still not enough to explain huge difference in hero levels. As he explain after game he take almost all gold from chests for hero XP. On map were you don't have money for build all towns you take chests for XP, was big surprise for me...
In game i take control over Tree of Plenty. By the way Tree in center give new portion of resources every week. Build up in 5 towns. In main town i build tear of asha, but no 5000 gold per day, must be bag ... Build in all towns advanced markets. And here i start to be very annoyed with all this economy staff to feed up 5 towns, buy arts from 5 markets every week ... So i decided to put and end to this game. I buy all army i can, not all. And i go assault his closest town. I took his town for free, no resistance. Two day later i took another town. Was surprised he not defend his towns ... Looks like he have no money to buy army to fight, i took him by surprise. And hear in this moment i think i done mistake that maybe cost my the game ... I not marched over his main town but decided to use advantage given from have in possession more towns. Reason - i have more towns, means i have more troops, gold income ... I wait doing auxiliary business for week or two. Looks like this time was enough for him to buy 18 angels and so on ... In battle he used retaliation aura level 3 on angels. Also is very important for main hero to pass level 25, 28% resurrect from Haven racial is huge difference. After game Vetalkl said one of his main priority is to build Angels ... Not sure it was angel strategy, or huge hero level difference, all in one look impressive in the end ...      
     
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G0b1in
G0b1in


Adventuring Hero
posted November 11, 2011 10:34 PM

well sounds to me he used strategy to rush build champion dwelling and didn't buy much army coz he lacked resources - just minimum to creep - that's why he's castles were undefended.

i remember peaople doing this in earlier hero's games too, but week of plague could screw you over - btw is there week of plague in H6 aswell ?
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SKPRIMUS
SKPRIMUS


Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
posted November 12, 2011 06:39 AM
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 06:42, 12 Nov 2011.

well at least thanks for providing more information in this thread, Infinitus!  It was a nice trick question because heaps thought about economic side & not haven mirror...As I said, it depends a lot on enemy actions & enemy hero type...maybe why they removed thieves guild to keep one guessing.  I did think about angels to guard against intimidation too.

Excuse my ignorance but:

Can't retribution aura be dispelled via radiant glory cleansing light (allowing one retrib aura III hit only) or hero dispel magic spell?

Pooled creature reserves allows one to accumulate units but you don't have to keep all the castles anymore to buy the reserves (unlike previous heroes).  Kinda weird, bit like capture castle on day 7 & already have all the reserves the next day regardless of whether you own castle on day 2.

Retribution aura III...Zenofex has mentioned the cheapness/LAMENESS of this a lot of times [but at least there should be a counter]

So one could also rehire hero that lost & keep the game going for a long long time since you have economic advantage & both armies decimated?

& no 5000g/day for tear of asha?...sad

@G0bl1n: according to fan manual, week of plague means one-third [growth] of creatures...won't affect much if already a big number of units in reserves. [unlike in H5 where it actually kills all creatures in dwellings]...it's all weird
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus

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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted November 12, 2011 09:33 AM

Quote:
Can't retribution aura be dispelled via radiant glory cleansing light (allowing one retrib aura III hit only) or hero dispel magic spell?

Opponent cast retribution aura III on Angels turn, after Angels move i dispelled aura with glories, anyway retribution aura look impressive.

Quote:
So one could also rehire hero that lost & keep the game going for a long long time since you have economic advantage & both armies decimated?

Possible, but not for game i played. His looses was not enough hi, haven racial ultimate ability work very well.


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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 12, 2011 10:45 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Can't retribution aura be dispelled via radiant glory cleansing light (allowing one retrib aura III hit only) or hero dispel magic spell?

Opponent cast retribution aura III on Angels turn, after Angels move i dispelled aura with glories, anyway retribution aura look impressive.

It's not impressive, it's just badly overpowered.

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted November 12, 2011 12:35 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 12:39, 12 Nov 2011.

The entire spell should be re-worked. It could be something like that:
Level 1: Returns damage against a single attacker only when the creature with the spell is directly attacked (i.e. does not work for retaliations).
Level 2: Returns damage against a single attacker both for direct attacks and retaliations.
Level 3: Returns damage to the attacker (direct attacks and retaliations) and the enemy creatures in his immediate vicinity (3x3 square for a small creature where the attacking creature is standing in the centre and 5x5 square for a large creature - again the latter is in the centre) where only the attacking creature takes the full damage from the aura and its nearby allies - only 50%.
I think this will make it a fairly reasonable spell, especially considering that the other direct damage spells are a joke compared to it.

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avalon00x
avalon00x


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
posted November 14, 2011 01:07 PM

Hmm. isnt this the map with the respawning resources?.

Seeing as this is a rather large map the first thing i upgrade is the tavern once and then the town hall completely. using the first hero to go to the 2nd encampment asap. while making sure you upgrade atleast the sisters , crowwbow men, preatorians i usualy save for later. once at the 2nd town i get the basic town portal so i can switch the alt hero to my 2nd town. deliver the troops to the main hero and level up the alt with mentoring wich should be enough to get it to level 5 maximising everything in movement and getting snatch. use the main hero to go to the main middle island and obtaining atleast one / or if you dare two golden eggs wich will hatch and give you 2000 gold per egg now put alt on island and loot it to hell seeing as things respawn you should easily be able to build anything in any town. i usualy try to full upgrade the 1st town due to the effect of tear of asha and me wanting to protect it as well as i can . if you are fast enough on the middle island with the respawning resources you can get a BIG advantage. aslong as you have snatch you should be able to clear alot really fast.

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pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted November 14, 2011 03:01 PM
Edited by pacifist at 15:03, 14 Nov 2011.

Tree of Plenty is a map for elite units. You should capture second town end of first week or beginning of second week depending on difficulty. Capture dwelling and already have 3 or 4 more heroes with architect and economist 2. With 5 markets no more ressource problems : 1 cristal = 2 wood or ore or 500 gold, you can do it in any direction it doesn't matter you never lose ressource on exchange rates. Enlightement is nice in this map because it allows to take mentor without wasting a skill vs a normal build. Of course Tree of Plenty should be reached beginning of second week by secondary hero with logistics and snatch. Although sanctuary heroes travel on water with native units they go faster on boat .

So for a mage haven hero, rush to vestals and glories in all towns and then complete at leisure the other dwellings. Of course vs other human players always have a dispel or purge spell. Champion units is also very effective in this rich map because you can afford to build lv3 fortifications in all towns.

Tear of Asha gives +5000 gold but it's not mentioned in the gold income, you just have 5000 more gold .
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infinitus
infinitus


Supreme Hero
posted November 14, 2011 04:47 PM
Edited by infinitus at 16:52, 14 Nov 2011.

Thanks Avalon00x, Pacifist for nice tips, i really like to see map tactic discussion full of nice details from people who played this map ...

Quote:
use the main hero to go to the main middle island and obtaining atleast one / or if you dare two golden eggs wich will hatch and give you 2000 gold

Interesting tactic to send to island main hero. I prefer to send to island secondary hero. My main hero is busy to get at this time more towns. Two eggs is good, but two more town is even better ... And what if opponent get shackles and catch your main hero ?

Quote:
Tear of Asha gives +5000 gold but it's not mentioned in the gold income, you just have 5000 more gold .

Not only it's not mentioned in gold income, sometime after load gold income become halved, or army grow halved. In other game we just loaded one more time and income became normal. By the way arts in shops after load are changing every time, annoying bag ...
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