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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: Sander's Folly
Thread: Sander's Folly
regnak
regnak

Tavern Dweller
posted December 10, 2011 06:05 PM

Sander's Folly

I recently started this map and need some help. I have the first two Towers and am trying to complete the tests of Wizardry. However while I ma doing that Tan keep landing ever larger armies that my secondary heroes stand no chance against. Have I done something wrong?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 10, 2011 09:18 PM

It's been a *very* long time since I made this map, but as I recall there are treasures along the coastline that prevent enemy landing.  Remove them at your peril.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 10, 2011 09:35 PM

Bah, as in Thunk, all you need is 4-5 scouts which dig a hole daily. In about a week, all coastal land will be prohibited from landing, and you have full time to play the game, as I did.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted December 10, 2011 09:38 PM

Cheater
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 10, 2011 09:48 PM

I played it without also, but I preferred with holes so I can enjoy the thing without having to go back and fight every 5 days some AI kamikaze.

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regnak
regnak

Tavern Dweller
posted December 10, 2011 09:50 PM

Thanks!
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heirherhe
heirherhe

Tavern Dweller
posted July 30, 2021 07:22 AM
Edited by heirherhe at 13:07, 01 Aug 2021.

A Sander's Folly thread in the incorrect subforum

Hello, Corribus. Today I errouslousy posted my thread regarding Sander's Folly in Newcomers' Inn. The main content of the thread runs as follows (I've also sent a message earlier to you, for convenient reading)

There is a secret cavern next to the Monolith One Way Entrance that leads to Ma'Goon at the start of the game. There's a small area in the cavern at a short distance away from the edge of the river where you can find a boat. In that area, there's a sign that reads "Sander's Folly. Version 1.21beta" This is highly unusual, considering all the other signs on the map are all written with story-related contents. I suspect this particular text was meant to be a placeholder that was about to have something else written at some point of the making of the map. The latest version of the map I've found is the 1.6 version. So my question is that what was supposed to be written on that particular sign, or the "1.21beta" text was intentionally left there?

I believe it's more appropriate to post it in MapHaven Guild. Of course, I'm anticipated for the truth surrounding that secret sign!

Edit: I checked the sign, noticed that I got the text wrong. Must be a fragment of my dreams showing some bizarre looking version numbers that tricked me to believe it were my real life gaming memories. Fixed.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted July 31, 2021 06:25 PM
Edited by Corribus at 18:33, 31 Jul 2021.

Wow, in 2011 I noted it had been a very long time since I made this map. Now it is 10 years later. I'm getting old.

Needless to say I don't remember the exact reason for the sign. My guess is it was just a creative way of keeping the map versions straight while I was making it... and then I forgot to update it. One of those mysteries that is lost to time

EDIT: Btw, I saw in the other thread there are some suggestions for map improvement. I'd be willing to do an update if there was a list of easy fixes.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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heirherhe
heirherhe

Tavern Dweller
posted August 01, 2021 12:18 PM
Edited by heirherhe at 12:21, 01 Aug 2021.

Thanks for you reply, Corribus. I have a minor thought, perhaps a trivial one, but I'd like to share it anyways. The issue I've noticed, seems to me, is a phenomenon of Ludonarrative Dissonance. There're a few characters whose deaths the story has described in great details (namely, Sir Albon, Sagimyris, and Eric Leblanc). These characters do have biographies of their own, which are, as I see it, parts of the stories. Unfortunately, to actually read them in game, I need these deseased characters to somehow be raised from the dead through RNG and to find their way to a beer in my taverns. That, however, creates a paradoxical situation where in order to access the whole story I need some lore-breaking things to happen. If I set them to be only available to their own masters, on the other hand, their "deaths" are stayed faithful to, yet it's not possible to access the entirety of their backstories without the use of map editor. Perhaps it would be too demanding to have it both ways? I dunno.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted August 01, 2021 06:44 PM

Definitely a good point. Given the limitations of the original H3 map editor, there was no way to prevent "dead" heroes from resurfacing. My intention was, I guess, for players to read them in the map editor after the maps was over.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted August 02, 2021 12:32 AM

Corribus said:
My intention was, I guess, for players to read them in the map editor after the maps was over.

Thatís a pretty wild guess.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted August 09, 2021 07:24 AM

The sign is most likely there on purpose as an easter egg and "version control".
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Never changing = never improving

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HeirHerHe
HeirHerHe

Tavern Dweller
posted August 14, 2021 07:32 PM
Edited by HeirHerHe at 05:01, 15 Aug 2021.

Hello again.

Indeed, my friends, good to know! Recently I've noticed some other minor issues with version 1.6. I'll note them as follows.

1. The two Castle towns in the epilogue zone are not named as Gaylin Dale and Barron's Ford, respectively.

2. The Belaluna town's mage guild disallows the Town Portal spell and allows the Water Walk spell. I suspect the Mt. Fortress scholar is meant to be the exclusive Water Walk source.

3. The two abandoned mines in the starting zone are, oddly enough, not set as Gold (Vampire) and Crystal (Wight) mines.

4. Both Eric Leblancs's biographies: 'The most impressive of these tactics was perhaps when Leblanc faught of[f] an ambush by Sagimyris' armies...'

5. Sagimyris' biography: 'In any case, Sagimyris is a very compet[e]nt spell caster, rivaling in talent even [t]he most accomplished of the Celestial Wizards.'

6. Chapter Seven: 'The Orb suffocates you, not drawing breath but drawing magic.  It makes you we[a]k.'

7. It's possible (though unlikely, but in theory, this could ruin the game) that Tan, Teal, or Purple hires Gem, who has the Summon Boat spell, or that either of the two non-Shield-offering Shrines of Magic Incantation teaches the spell. The AI players could then access the Shipwreck Survivor, which might result them finding Tome of Air Magic or Spellbinder's Hat, given that both artifacts, and that both Dimension Door and Fly are not disabled by the map. This could cause the AIs bypassing the border guard and wrecking havoc in my base when I can't deal with their rampage at all. Combined with the invader's access to Chain Lightning or Implosion, that would be a disaster. Unlikely, yes. But the stakes are too high for it.

These are what I could think of. Thanks for reading!

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 15, 2021 10:52 AM

you're just as thorough as i am when i make maps. then i test them to death afterward.

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HeirHerHe
HeirHerHe

Tavern Dweller
posted August 15, 2021 03:27 PM

Well, what can I say This is my favorite Heroes 3 map of all time. It feels timelessly enjoyable. I revisit it repeatedly with great passion. And I want it to be perfect!

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted August 16, 2021 02:10 AM

Indeed, this map is a great classic.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

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HeirHerHe
HeirHerHe

Tavern Dweller
posted July 22, 2022 06:31 AM
Edited by HeirHerHe at 03:13, 01 Aug 2022.

@Corribus

Howdy! I had an idea to build the scene of Sagimyris invading Gaylin Dale (I'm tired of seeing Leblanc and his daft Pikemen for eternity)

So first I'll make a Sagimyris clone Sandro (without Tome of Earth).

1. I was previously thinking to make his army strong enough to kill the Gate guards but not enough to challenge the Dwarves (I wanna crush them myself). So I gave him an army of 100 Wraiths, 100 Zombies, 10 Dread Knights, 10 Ghost Dragons, 10 Black Knights, 30 Vampire Lords and 30 Power Liches. I've changed the Gate troops to 2◊100 Halberdiers and 2◊100 Pikemen, so heíll be confident enough to attack.

[Update: That didn't work in SoD since AI cheats its army. If AI wins a fight without losses all its stacks grow for free. I tested several times, AI nearly doubled its power stacks by slaying 14 stacks of 1 unit Crusaders. It ended up having something like 22 for both Knights, 17 Ghost Dragons, 44 Vampire Lords, and more. So it easily killed zounds of Dwarves]

[Whelp. Tried to restrict his movement radius but AI won't enter Monoliths in patrol mode. Oh well. Guess I'll give him his 4,000 Skellies, 2,000 Zombies, 400 Dread Knights and 500 Vampyrs then. Should be a fun boss fight]

2. I want to stall his attack. I've created a separate one-man-passage zone with Swan Ponds and Crusaders to force him to stop daily.



3. The siege will remove Gaylin Dale's Capitol. I want it retained, so I removed Gothmark's Capitol and added an in-town timed event to build it after Sagimyris captures Gaylin Dale.

[He may poke around a bit, but he'll usually kill Blue before 137. If he wastes turns over Water first and then raids the ore pit, he can't reach Blue on 147. Give him an extra week. Day 35 works]

4. A Pink-controlled Gaylin Dale allows their pesky allies to Town Portal here. I'll disable the spell for Red and Inferno towns.

[Probably not a good idea. AIs are quite passive and build Mage Guilds too slow. By the time they have the spell Sagimyris would have scrapped all the goodies from the place. His allies only (and rarely) visit the town for Stables. And they're too good at guerrilla warfare so not having Town Portal makes recapturing towns back and forth a great tedium]

5. Sandro is exclusive to Pink, so none shall access his artifacts.

[No need for that. He won't be that easy to go down anyways. And if I defeat him, I think I deserve the right to take his stuff. Besides, AI can't access another AI's artifacts by defeating it. Maybe restrict Leblanc's availability...OR not.]

6. There's a resource removal daily event in Gaylin Dale. I'll set the event to be available to Player 2 only, so Pink doesn't suffer for capturing the town.

A thought on the plot: The abandoned mines under the starting zone do not match their counterpart mines. Their Mercury (but not other) options are disabled, so the anomaly was likely intended. What's the implication behind it? Is the main plot in fact Sander's fabrication while he's drunk, or in a darker interpretation, dying? This may be supported by the eerily inconsistent characters of Sander during different chapters of the story. For example, in Sagoria he is extremely sadistic and murderous. But in the final scene, his character returns to the teenager demeanor at the beginning.

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