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hobo2
Promising
Known Hero
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posted February 12, 2012 03:10 PM |
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Quote:
I think you're right that the current frequency of luck triggering is not bad at all. Late-game Inferno triggers with good regularity (especially boosted by Mass Heroism on a Tears hero). Granted, still not quite frequently enough to make early-turn gating reliable, but there are better ways to solve that problem.
Heroism and Mass Heroism are the clearest indicators that Destiny and Leadership are broken. It's a free war cry and it adds the equivalent of dozens of points to both stats, and it isn't even all that good. If a player has the opportunity to gain dozens of levels worth of stat buffs in a single action and is passing it by because maybe they want to cast Pressed Attack instead, you know those stats are woefully under powered.
The fact that there are skills that add 80 points to Destiny in certain circumstances and people don't take them because 80 points of destiny isn't worth worrying about is a grim condemnation of both the stat equations and the skill selections.
Quote:
In any case, it would seem that what is far-and-away the best and simplest way to balance Luck is to increase the damage bonus. Keep the 1%/point and all creature and hero values the same, but increase the luck damage bonus to +75% or even +100% as it used to be. In that case, the average bonus to damage from Attack vs. Luck would be much closer and more balanced than it is now.
Adding 23 points to Attack increases damage by two thirds - more than increasing Destiny by infinity. That's absurd. But regardless, it nonetheless highlights the core problem of Destiny: it's a linear progression and Attack is a super quadratic progression. Even if Destiny were adding 100% damage, that would still just be the equivalent of adding 32 Attack points when it worked. Having it work all the time would require a Luck of 100, while an Attack of 100 adds 466% to damage.
But the real absurdity is that Black Hole actually went to print with skills that added two dozen points and more to Destiny in one go. The fact that such an offer was even on the table means that a hard rethink of the stats should have been in order. In Heroes 3, Expert Blood Lust increased your Attack skill by six, and people didn't make fun of it. A severe reigning in of the stats and skills and their effects on each other is required before fixing things is even possible.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 12, 2012 03:18 PM |
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Quote:
No, that would NOT be a lot better, because it would "halve" the distance to 100%. Highest Luck value would be 50 then, and it would be too easy to reach Luck values of 60, 70%.
Would it actually? Normal skills and artifacts would have to have their Luck bonus halved to give the same trigger chance bonus (if we think those are balanced at least), so that would not make a change. Yes, bonus from leveling up would be higher, but that's the point, they are currently too low (at least that's what I read). And would it grow anywhere near 100 % realistically? In H5, Expert Luck gave you a flat +30 % trigger chance, and then came artifacts on top. It seems to me that even if each point amounts to 2 % chance, there's still plenty of room to move within.
Arguably, it's very difficult for me to evaluate this, because I don't know what the different ways to gain Luck in the game is, so perhaps someone could list these along with the bonus they give. What I understand is that things look something along the line of:
- Hero level up: Adds ____ % trigger chance each level.
- Destiny's chosen I: Adds ____ % trigger chance.
- Destiny's chosen II: Adds ____ % trigger chance.
- Destiny's chosen III: Adds ____ % trigger chance.
- Minor artifact _____: Adds ____ % trigger chance.
- Major artifact _____: Adds ____ % trigger chance.
- Relic artifact _____: Adds ____ % trigger chance.
- (Mass) Heroism: Adds ____ % trigger chance.
If there are others, those would also be needed to assess the likely values in early and late game.
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What will happen now?
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 12, 2012 04:32 PM |
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I didn't bother reading everything, but :
Quote:
Even if Destiny were adding 100% damage, that would still just be the equivalent of adding 32 Attack points when it worked. Having it work all the time would require a Luck of 100, while an Attack of 100 adds 466% to damage.
does it make any difference if you consider defense as well? in reality even with an attack of 100, you will never multiply damage that much, right?
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odium
Known Hero
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posted February 12, 2012 05:03 PM |
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Edited by odium at 17:13, 12 Feb 2012.
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No, it doesn't make any difference. It will affect in the same way the damage done, be it from extra attack or extra luck. In the new game mechanics the damage is a predetermined value (depending on the hero's stats, attacking creature stats, abilities/spells active on the attacking creature etc). Defense is taken into consideration in terms of ABSORBTION only when that creature attacks another creature. Part of that damage done by the attacker is absorbed by the defending creature (in percentage). Here the debate is how hero's attributes differ in their utility for the attacker's damage. And it turns out that choosing 1 point in Luck won't be as useful as choosing 1 point in Might/Magic Attack.
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted February 12, 2012 08:35 PM |
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- Hero level up: Adds 1 % trigger chance for each point gained.
- Destiny's chosen I: Adds 2 (1?) % trigger chance.
- Destiny's chosen II: Adds 2 % trigger chance.
- Destiny's chosen III: Adds 3 % trigger chance.
- Minor artifact _____: Adds 2 % trigger chance.
- Major artifact _____: Adds 4 % trigger chance.
- Relic artifact _____: Adds 8 % trigger chance.
- (Mass) Heroism: Adds 6-30 % trigger chance.
These are the numbers now, level and heroism depend on the hero, but are might/inferno estimates. Artifacts are pockets, other slots are generally better.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 12, 2012 09:04 PM |
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How can they add 0.25 % trigger chance? If 1 Luck point is equal to 1 % trigger chance, wouldn't that be the minimum possible?
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hobo2
Promising
Known Hero
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posted February 12, 2012 09:09 PM |
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Quote:
I didn't bother reading everything, but :
Quote:
Even if Destiny were adding 100% damage, that would still just be the equivalent of adding 32 Attack points when it worked. Having it work all the time would require a Luck of 100, while an Attack of 100 adds 466% to damage.
does it make any difference if you consider defense as well? in reality even with an attack of 100, you will never multiply damage that much, right?
Odium answered that pretty well, but I think it is probably time to go full-pedantic, because it highlights a pretty severe structural problem with the way stats work in Heroes VI.
The damage calculation is that you roll a base damage number, then you multiply it by a factor based on your attack value, then if you crit you multiply it by 150%, and this is your raw damage. Now your raw damage is divided by a number based on the target's defense. There is no comparison of attack to defense and no breakpoints anywhere. Having an attack value of 23 makes you do two-thirds more damage. Having a defense of 23 makes you take only 60% of all incoming damage. The progressions are such that if you have the same attack skill as they have defense skill, you do base damage, but there are no breakpoints. It's just that the attack multiplier and the soak percentage happen to be inverses of each other at any identical attack and defense number.
What this means (aside from having a basic damage calculation that is intractable for the average user), is that there is no consideration about whether you are attacking a high defense unit or a low defense unit. Their defense-derived soak value times their hit points is simply how much damage you have to do to them to make them die. And it makes no difference at all whether that pre-soak damage is happening because of crits or high attack multipliers or large base damage. It's all converted to raw damage before the defender even sees it.
So we actually can simply directly compare any source of damage. Luck and Attack are directly comparable mathematically. Because the output from their part of the damage equation is completely independent of defense and resistance.
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted February 12, 2012 09:39 PM |
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Quote:
How can they add 0.25 % trigger chance? If 1 Luck point is equal to 1 % trigger chance, wouldn't that be the minimum possible?
1 out of 4 chance you get luck point when you level? Also I screwed up, I calced luck as .5% chance, so double all of my numbers.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 12, 2012 10:42 PM |
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Ok, I changed the numbers accordingly. About the bonuses from levels - how much Luck will an Inferno hero have from his class levels only when he is level 30 - is this not a fixed number?
Quote:
- Hero level up: Adds 1 % trigger chance for each point gained.
- Destiny's chosen I: Adds 2 (1?) % trigger chance.
- Destiny's chosen II: Adds 2 % trigger chance.
- Destiny's chosen III: Adds 3 % trigger chance.
- Minor artifact _____: Adds 2 % trigger chance.
- Major artifact _____: Adds 4 % trigger chance.
- Relic artifact _____: Adds 8 % trigger chance.
- (Mass) Heroism: Adds 6-30 % trigger chance.
Looking at these numbers, the pitiful 7 % (is that really true?) added by DC I/II/III could easily be doubled to 14 % without loosing balance - quite on the contrary.
Bonus from artifacts didn't have to double, if one was concerned about balance - if each Luck/Leadership point was changed to 2 % trigger chance, Artifacts could be scaled to 1/2/4 point bonus (same trigger chance as now) if one deamed that appropriate. Personally, I find a 2 % bonus laughable, and I would surely double these also.
Bonus from levels would be what - a level 30 Inferno hero, will he have gained 15 Luck stats from his levels? Or how much?
If we consider 14 % from Skills (max out DC), another 12 % on average from Artifacts (sometimes higher if you get appropriate relic, but that would be rare I reckon), that's around 25 % chance from those two. That's not an unreasonable number if you ask me. Depending on how much level bonus adds, it may add up high, but perhaps solution is to make each level point add 2 % but slightly decrease the number of points that end up in Luck/Morale, so overall bonus doesn't grow extremely high.
If levels add another 15-25 % at level 30, that brings bonus up to somewhere around 40-50 %, which I think is not completely unreasonable for a class that has this as a favored stat, has maxed out levels, and has put all focus into this skill? After all, 50 % chance was the cap in previous games, they could retain this cap if necessary.
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What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 12, 2012 11:05 PM |
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Yes. Levelups are not random.
Inferno hero will have 10 Luck.
Also creatures have Luck, and Inferno creatures - except breeders have a lot of them, about 10 as well.
Also, there are a lot more artifacts giving Leadership than Destiny.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 12, 2012 11:16 PM |
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Initial Luck stats of creatures doesn't really have to be taken into account. If the value of each stat is doubled from 1 to 2 % trigger chance, one can just halve the starting value to retain balance, so that's not really an issue.
If Inferno Hero only gains 10 points from his levels, that would be an additional 20 % - i.e. not overly much at level 30 (if you ask me), and one could make a minor adjustment if you really wanted, so he only got perhaps 8 points through these 30 levels. So no, I really don't see a problem in changing the value of each Luck and Morale point to 2 % trigger chance [and also increasing the bonus damage from Lucky attacks slightly, if the calculations in this thread stands to believe, i.e. Luck < half as good as Attack].
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What will happen now?
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seingeist
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 12, 2012 11:17 PM |
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Quote:
Heroism and Mass Heroism are the clearest indicators that Destiny and Leadership are broken. It's a free war cry and it adds the equivalent of dozens of points to both stats, and it isn't even all that good. If a player has the opportunity to gain dozens of levels worth of stat buffs in a single action and is passing it by because maybe they want to cast Pressed Attack instead, you know those stats are woefully under powered.
I agree with you entirely. It's extremely odd that the developers would treat them as roughly equal in the hero level-ups, passive skill-boosts, and artifacts, and then treat them as so obviously unequal in bonuses via spells/Warcries.
However, it seems necessary to point out that it's not as though the developers are otherwise sober with stat-boosting opportunities. Inner Fire gives an extremely significant direct boost to Might damage and some bonus initiative on top of that. Meditation adds 20 to Hero's Magic Power (although I'm not sure if this in-battle buff also affects the magic creatures or not - I haven't tried it).
Quote:
The fact that there are skills that add 80 points to Destiny in certain circumstances and people don't take them because 80 points of destiny isn't worth worrying about is a grim condemnation of both the stat equations and the skill selections.
Does it get that high? Do you mean several skills (cumulatively) or an individual skill?
If people don't think that an effective +40% damage boost "isn't worth worrying about," then that may say more about the level of their tactical competence than about the "grimness" of the stat equations. 
And an Inferno player would have to be a fool to ignore that kind of bonus, inasmuch as the racial depends on it.
Quote:
Adding 23 points to Attack increases damage by two thirds - more than increasing Destiny by infinity. That's absurd. But regardless, it nonetheless highlights the core problem of Destiny: it's a linear progression and Attack is a super quadratic progression. Even if Destiny were adding 100% damage, that would still just be the equivalent of adding 32 Attack points when it worked. Having it work all the time would require a Luck of 100, while an Attack of 100 adds 466% to damage.
But bear in mind that Attack does not affect both Might and Magic damage, so they cannot quite be directly compared in this manner. This is especially pertinent for the Necropolis and the Sanctuary (and Inferno to a lesser extent), who both have 3 units that do magic damage (In Necro's case, this includes its two most damaging units).
There's still a deficit that favors Attack (on my +100% recommendation, which all of the following assumes), of course, but it isn't quite as extreme as the one you make out.
+23 points to Attack means 1.66x damage for your Might units. +23 points to Destiny means 1.23x damage for all units.
Similarly, 100 points of Attack means 5.66x damage for your Might units, whereas 100 points of Destiny means 2.0x damage for all units.
How balanced this is varies on the ratio of Might:Magic damage in a faction's total creature damage, but even if this were a 50/50 balance in every faction (which is awfully generous to Magic, of course; the factions do generally favor Might heavily), the Attack bonus to Might alone would still be greater than the Luck bonus to all creatures. To put it somewhat differently, you say that 100 Luck (at 100% bonus) = 32 Attack, but in actuality, 100 Luck = 32 Attack and 32 Magic, which in an optimistic scenario means 100 Luck = 64 total "Hero Power," which would make it ~2/3 as good as Attack or Magic.
At lower numbers (which are much more realistic, of course), 23 points of Attack yields 23 "Hero Power," whereas 23 points of Luck yields ~18 points "Hero Power" (9 Might + 9 Magic), which makes it slightly more than 3/4 as good in that sense.
Imbalanced? Yes. However, it is closer to balanced than it is now (and closer than you're suggesting), which is the whole point.
And in any case, why stop at +100%? You could eventually hit a % that would make Luck as good or better than Attack/Magic in terms of Damage potential. Of course, given the liner vs. super quadratic progression, it's impossible for them to be balanced for the entirety of the Hero's growth, but it is not necessary for them to be perfectly balanced.
Setting Luck bonus to 150% damage gets you extremely close. 23 Attack = 23 Hero Power, 23 Luck roughly = 24 Hero Power (12 Might + 12 Magic). At 100 points each, Attack is 100 Hero Power and Luck is approximately 90 Hero Power.
Naturally though, tripling the current damage bonus to Luck is not something that the developers are very likely to consider doing, so this is probably a hopeless case.
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seingeist
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 12, 2012 11:53 PM |
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Quote:
Initial Luck stats of creatures doesn't really have to be taken into account. If the value of each stat is doubled from 1 to 2 % trigger chance, one can just halve the starting value to retain balance, so that's not really an issue.
If Inferno Hero only gains 10 points from his levels, that would be an additional 20 % - i.e. not overly much at level 30 (if you ask me), and one could make a minor adjustment if you really wanted, so he only got perhaps 8 points through these 30 levels. So no, I really don't see a problem in changing the value of each Luck and Morale point to 2 % trigger chance [and also increasing the bonus damage from Lucky attacks slightly, if the calculations in this thread stands to believe, i.e. Luck < half as good as Attack].
But I think JJ's right that there is not really a huge problem with the current frequency of Luck triggering.
A lvl 30 Inferno hero on the current system has 10% chance of triggering from his 10 Luck, and the creatures average ~10 Luck, which means that even without Destiny's Chosen passive bonuses, artifacts, or Heroism/Mass Heroism, each creature attack has a 20% chance to crit. For 7 stacks, this amounts to 1.4 crits/round, which translates almost precisely into 1/4 racial gauge filled per round (1.4 crits x 70 points = 98 points).
Throw in a casting of Mass Heroism for another 10 points of Luck or so, and you're at 2.1 crits/round and ~3/8 gauge filled per round.
The reason that I favor raising the damage bonus instead of the frequency is because it will allow Luck to still feel like luck (i.e. Chaotic, i.e. Infernal), activating less often than not, while serving to balance the damage more vs.Attack/Magic by providing quite a hefty punch when it does activate. Moreover, this would require fewer (if any) changes to creature stats/passive abilities/active abilities/artifacts/etc. than changing the frequency would.
If we changed the frequency to 2% and left everything else alone, the Inferno hero could very easily raise Luck to insane levels. 20% from the 30 Hero levels + 20% from the creatures 10 Luck + 20% from Mass Heroism's 10 Luck + 14% from Destiny's Chosen III's 7 = 74% crit chance, or 5.18 crits per 7-unit round (= 7/8 racial gauge/round).
It would require less stat-balancing (and retain the "feel" of Luck more) to raise the damage instead of the frequency, as far as I see it anyway.
P.S. Alcibiades, I'm offended by the OP cheese that is your avatar. 
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hobo2
Promising
Known Hero
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posted February 13, 2012 07:23 AM |
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Quote:
Does it get that high? Do you mean several skills (cumulatively) or an individual skill?
If people don't think that an effective +40% damage boost "isn't worth worrying about," then that may say more about the level of their tactical competence than about the "grimness" of the stat equations.
Yeah it actually does. Check out Ice Breaker, which ironically is in Water and not available to Inferno players. It adds like 79 points to Luck for an attack, but dispels the Frozen condition. It is actually disadvantageous to have, because it triggers passively and in most cases you's rather that an enemy stack couldn't move for a turn than that one of your stacks did bonus damage to them.
Yeah, the game hands out skills that give more than seventy points of Destiny and players wouldn't learn them if they were free! That is how crap Destiny is compared to real stats.
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seingeist
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2012 08:03 AM |
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Quote:
Yeah it actually does. Check out Ice Breaker, which ironically is in Water and not available to Inferno players. It adds like 79 points to Luck for an attack, but dispels the Frozen condition. It is actually disadvantageous to have, because it triggers passively and in most cases you's rather that an enemy stack couldn't move for a turn than that one of your stacks did bonus damage to them.
Yeah, the game hands out skills that give more than seventy points of Destiny and players wouldn't learn them if they were free! That is how crap Destiny is compared to real stats.
C'mon now, you know that this is extraordinarily misleading. People don't avoid that spell because "Destiny is crap," they avoid it because it is far too situational and tactically disadvantageous.
If Mass Heroism gave 70 points of Luck, I promise you that everyone would take it, and they'd be absolute fools not to. +35% total average damage to the entire army in one cast would be nothing to shake a stick at.
Hell, as it is, I usually always cast it as Inferno for the more frequent racial triggers (and 10% Might damage buff), if nothing else.
Make no mistake, though; I do absolutely agree that Luck is currently garbage, which is why I keep harping on the idea that it needs a damage boost. This boost as well as increased growth on most Inferno units (+1 to all upgraded Elites, as well as +1 Breeder, +1 Demented, and +2 to both Dogs) would go a long way towards bringing the Inferno up to speed.
Oh, and Hobo2: I noticed that you borrowed my damage*growth faction table for the Ubi forums. 
I appreciate that you got some use out of it, even if it did end up confusing a few of the posters there, who wondered where HP was, for example. 
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted February 13, 2012 08:31 AM |
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Some of the above mathematical calculations are difficult to follow and interpret, but it is clear that Blackhole wanted to nerf luck due to it's broken nature in Heroes 5. The problem is that luck is now very weak as we all know.
What's the solution?
1. Raise 100% to damage (instead of 50%)?
2. Raise the probability % points of triggering? (instead of 1 luck = 1% chance of triggering)
3. Link luck to blood reputation?
4. Add 2 luck points to level ups (instead of 1)
What is the best option? (There may be other options)
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seingeist
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 13, 2012 08:44 AM |
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Quote:
Some of the above mathematical calculations are difficult to follow and interpret, but it is clear that Blackhole wanted to nerf luck due to it's broken nature in Heroes 5. The problem is that luck is now very weak as we all know.
What's the solution?
1. Raise 100% to damage (instead of 50%)?
2. Raise the probability % points of triggering? (instead of 1 luck = 1% chance of triggering)
3. Link luck to blood reputation?
4. Add 2 luck points to level ups (instead of 1)
What is the best option? (There may be other options)
Unless others have changed their opinions, most of the above posts in this thread already suggest an answer to this question and offer varying support for it.
I favor option #1 strongly (if not higher than 100%, but at least that would help), Alcibiades likes #2, and JJ, at least initially, favored something close to #4.
I think I remember seeing #3 in there somewhere, but I can't remember who recommended it and I don't believe that it got much attention. In any case, option 3 seems like the worst of the 3 ideas inasmuch as Tears heroes (especially Infernal) need Luck just as badly as Blood heroes do.
I am sorry if I made the calculations difficult to follow; I would be more than happy to clarify or explain any part that was unclear. If you have the fan manual (if you don't, you should download it pronto; it's magnificent work), page 249 contains the table that shows the progression of Attack/Magic on damage. I was comparing (my hypothetical) Luck damage to information from that table.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 13, 2012 09:08 AM |
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The problem has to be seen in connectuion with MORAL, because Moral has the same workings (1% p.p.). Also it has to be seen in connection with BAD Luck and BAD Morale.
In my opinion the system is in so far questionable because every unit has an intrinsic positive Luck value.
I don't see any reason for that at all - with the exception of the Inferno units, that is.
With Moral it's different. Units like Angels and Kenseis should have a very good morale, while others may have bad ones.
In any case, a fine-tuned Luck/Moral is fine - the trouble is, however, that it is available as a primary skill. I mean, the only thing, the player can actually do with Luck, is picking 1-3 levels of destiny's chosen and cast Heroism (if you disregard two racial Non-Inferno skills). That's different with Moral, mind you.
That, however, means, that Luck (Leadership is different, because you can do so much to boost/damage it) is currently something that has no worth whatsoever, because it is more or less something in the game you cannot really influence.
In this situation, the only significant problem is the Inferno racial and the strength of Inferno creatures and Heroes, since Luck is so underpowered. The skills, yeah, well, they are not balanced anyway, and the artifacts - there are not many with Luck effects anyway.
But that means, that NO fix for Luck, that will just change the value, will be sufficient, because that makes Luck STILL a stat you cannot influence. Why don't we have a Misfortune/Mass Misfortune spell that would give -80/-40 Luck or something like that? There must be more options to TURN and CHANGE Luck, otherwise the skill is a complete waste. Inferno needs a racial skill to influence Luck The Tier 1 Might hero skill could be a passive one, adding 5 Luck to own creatures and reducing opposing creatures Luck. (Keep in mind that I don't think it makes sense to let creatures start with an intrinsic positive Luck value - are they all disciples of Urgash or something?)
IF that would change, you might halve the number of level-up luck/Moral gains and add 2 points of Luck/Moral when levelling up Luck/Moral, so that 1 point of attack/defense would be worth 2 points of Luck/Moral. You would then have to double the values for artifacts and adjust the skill/gains, including Chosen of Destiny and Leadership, and you would have to adjust moral/Luck starting values of creatures.
After that, you'd have to see how Inferno/Haven racial gauges would work and adjust, and it wouldn't be such a bad idea to let Inferno racial profit from the damage they do to others as well.
Now, obviously that probably won't happen.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 13, 2012 11:07 AM |
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Quote:
But I think JJ's right that there is not really a huge problem with the current frequency of Luck triggering.
We have to keep in mind that we are discussing several things here, that are to a large extent unrelated:
1) Is the gain of Luck/Morale when leveling up equal to the gain in Attack/Defence?
2) Does Luck/Morale trigger frequently enough within game?
3) How should the game handle Bad Luck/Morale?
With regard to these, I want to say:
Ad 1) Answer here seems clearly NO. JJ established this early in thread, and further discussion has not changed major points. Morale gain (1 point) seems to be roughly half as good as Attack gain (1 point), Luck a little less than Morale. Solution to this would be:
1a) Either double the gain at level-up, so that if you up the Morale/Luck stat, it is increased be 2 points whereas Attack/Defence is only increased by 1 point [and give Luck a little extra bonus damage, ~15 %];
1b) or make it so that 1 point in Luck/Morale equals 2 % trigger chance [and give Luck a little extra bonus damage, ~15 %].
The effect of 1a and 1b obviously is exactly the same, it is only a question of what you prefer: Do you want to keep the 1 point = 1 % trigger chance (go for 1a), or do you want to keep the all level-ups gives 1 point (go for 1b).
Ad 2) Answer here must be YES, for all I know. That doesn't mean changes from (1) shouldn't be implemented! You can keep trigger frequencies exactly the same by either scaling the frequency with which factions up Morale/Luck on level up (if 1a) or scale down all Luck/Morale stats by a factor of 2 (if 1b).
While I won't rule out that Luck triggers frequently enough, it seems to me that the major Luck boni comes from the wrong sources. Picking 3 skill points and getting a total contribution of 7 percent trigger chance is just plain laughable. Similarly, an artifact that gives 2 % trigger chance is hardly worth wasting a slot on, unless you don't happen to have anything else that goes into this slot. So while I can't say if overall trigger chance is good, balance between individual sources seem off.
Ad 3) I already suggested previously that Good Morale/Luck and Bad Morale/Luck should be treated as entirely different stats, that have skills to boost them. This is the only way to make a meaningful system out of those, particularly emphasized by the problem that reducing enemy Luck actually works against Infernos gauge fill rate as long as Luck doesn't go into more negative than it started in positive (and that seems almost impossible to achieve with current system).
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted February 13, 2012 11:58 AM |
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@Alci -> I prefer 1b) as opposed to 1a).
Luck and morale should be lower stats that attack, defence and magic stats as that's what is intended reducing the impact of them....
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This thread is pages long: 
