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| Thread: Virginian women breathe a sigh of relief. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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shyranis
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posted February 24, 2012 12:49 AM |
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Virginian women breathe a sigh of relief.
Virginia Will Not Require Invasive Vaginal Ultrasounds
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After an understandable uproar over a mandatory procedure that federal law would consider rape, Virginia legislators have opted to forgo the invasive and most definitely uncomfortable procedure for women seeking abortions. On top of a big invasion of privacy for all women, the legislation could have re-traumatized women who sought abortions because of rapes. A meeting last night led legislators to reconsider the vagina wand provision, reaching a compromise that would make the procedure voluntary, but not mandatory, reports The Washington Post. We're not sure what woman might choose to have an ultrasound used in this way, but, now they get a choice. And with that, the never-ending reproduction debates continue.
Thank goodness. Legalizing rape with an object is not a good thing. I am personally pro-life but forcing unwanted vaginal ultrasounds on women and doctors against their wills is disgusting.
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Fauch
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posted February 24, 2012 01:09 AM |
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and what the hell is "invasive vaginal ultrasounds"? is it an echography?
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shyranis
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posted February 24, 2012 04:44 PM |
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It's a "wand" shaped device that is shoved into you with sensors at the tip.
Hmm... not good.
Alabama and Pennsylvania are trying to force doctors to rape their patients with devices like the one pictured on the linked page.
Quote:
But just because public outcry over this measure has caused Virginia's governor to back down doesn't mean that lawmakers in other states have learned their lesson. Alabama and Pennsylvania are currently considering similar ultrasound requirements. And there's still that pesky bill that passed out of committee that would allow a woman's spouse (or underage girl's parents) to get a court injunction to block her from having an abortion by accusing her of being motivated to terminate her pregnancy by racism or sexism. In the year 2012. We've come a long way, baby.
Also doesn't take into account cases of rape or incest and also forces standard ultrasounds on women having miscarriages. This law looks like it's taking things way too far.
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Elodin
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posted February 25, 2012 01:42 AM |
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A better title for your thread would be "Virginia murderers breathe a sigh of relief", as they are allowed to murder their babies without having to look at them. I'm sure a lot of women in Virginia are pro-life and did not "breathe a sigh of relief."
Texas' law requires women to either view the ultrasound or listen to a doctor's description of the ultrasound if they want to murder their babies.
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meroe
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posted February 25, 2012 02:27 AM |
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Really all they needed to say was they wouldn't be using the transvaginal sonograph probe. Rather than go all crazy with this talk of medical 'rape'.
There are lots of reasons for transvaginal songraphy, bascially they are supposed to give a clearer picture, but you don't have to have it. I was called in for an ultrasound a couple of years ago. And when I got into the room, I saw the probe and told them "Hell no". End of story. I couldn't have cared less if it was easier for the doctor. I wasn't having it and that was that.
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Corribus
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posted February 25, 2012 02:34 AM |
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In these situations I like to turn to Jon Stewart for insight.
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Darkshadow
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posted February 25, 2012 09:20 AM |
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Quote:
Texas' law requires women to either view the ultrasound or listen to a doctor's description of the ultrasound if they want to murder their babies.
Yeah, because Texas is the paradise we have been all waiting for.
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OmegaDestroyer
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posted February 25, 2012 06:16 PM |
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Gotta love increasing the burden on a woman's decision. I'm actually surprised Texas's requirements have not been declared unconstitutional.
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shyranis
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posted February 25, 2012 07:57 PM |
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Quote:
A better title for your thread would be "Virginia murderers breathe a sigh of relief", as they are allowed to murder their babies without having to look at them. I'm sure a lot of women in Virginia are pro-life and did not "breathe a sigh of relief."
Actually, a majority of women in Virginia ARE pro-life AND were against forcing doctors against their will to force devices into unwilling women.
Again, I myself am pro-life. But forcing a woman going through a miscarriage (a life or death situation) to go through an ultrasound instead of getting treatment is a terrible situation for women's health.
Would you like if the government forced a probe into your prostate if your wife was having a miscarriage? I think not.
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Elodin
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posted February 26, 2012 12:12 AM |
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Gotta love increasing the burden on a woman's decision. I'm actually surprised Texas's requirements have not been declared unconstitutional.
Actually the law was recently challenged and upheld by the a three-judge panel of the Fifth Circuit.
Clicky
Quote:
A three-judge panel of the Fifth Circuit reversed Judge Sparks, concluding that the law merely requires physicians to provide "truthful, non-misleading information" and therefore doesn't violate their free-speech rights. The Fifth Circuit ruling clears the way for Texas to enforce the sonogram law, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott said in a statement.
"The Texas sonogram law falls well within the State's authority to regulate abortions and require informed consent from patients before they undergo an abortion procedure," Mr. Abbott said.
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"This is a great day for life in Texas," countered Republican state Sen. Dan Patrick, who represents part of Houston and who sponsored the legislation. "This law is about a woman's right to know so she can have all the information she deserves before making a decision to end a life."
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But forcing a woman going through a miscarriage (a life or death situation) to go through an ultrasound instead of getting treatment is a terrible situation for women's health.
I very seriously doubt a doctor is going to give a woman who is having a miscarriage an ultrasound unless it somehow helps him treat the woman.
The whole point of the abortion-industry is to try to withhold information from the murderer-to-be so she does not see that the baby is indeed a baby and not just a "clump of cells."
However, the USA is becoming more and more conservative as the population ages (you have a greater tendency to wise up as you gain life experience) and more and more laws are being passed to try to give some protection to the unborn babies. Hopefully one day Roe vs Wade will be overturned and the law should protect the innocent unborn the way it should.
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Corribus
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posted February 26, 2012 12:58 AM |
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abortion-industry
Huh?
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Elodin
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posted February 26, 2012 01:36 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
abortion-industry
Huh?
Murdering unborn babies is big business.
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baklava
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posted February 26, 2012 01:43 AM |
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Edited by baklava at 02:02, 26 Feb 2012.
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Not nearly as big as the God and guns one, though.
That one is a marketing miracle that would put Steve Jobs to shame. There is no way the infanticide industry can possibly get close to it unless it starts selling discount baby carriages with each abortion.
But that's beside the topic. The topic at hand is, should we facilitate baby murder or require pregnant women to be raped with large metal objects.
I personally can't see why we couldn't have both. That way everyone's happy.
I hope neither side is over-exaggerating, though. That would be disappointing.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted February 26, 2012 02:00 AM |
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Murdering unborn babies is big business.
I'm told that it's quite a delecacy to our asian friends.
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Shyranis
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posted February 26, 2012 04:02 AM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 04:09, 26 Feb 2012.
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Quote:
I very seriously doubt a doctor is going to give a woman who is having a miscarriage an ultrasound unless it somehow helps him treat the woman.
Here is a video of an objection over the forced miscarriage ultrasounds.
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“A missed miscarriage is when the embryo or fetus dies but continues to stay in the uterus,” she explained. “In that miscarriage, guess what you have to do to complete it. You have to have an abortion. By specifically inserting an exception for a spontaneous miscarriage, you’ve excluded from the ultrasound bill the very miscarriages that don’t require an abortion. By definition, you are requiring an ultrasound for the miscarriages that do. Words matter.”
Basically, it should not be mandated by the government and instead be doctor's discretion. If it wastes time and risks lives it's a bad part and the exception should be made for miscarriage cases.
Edit: Hm... you know. Listening to the entire video clip it does make an exception for medical emergency abortions.
So my only real beefs with the bill is that doctors have to waste hospital resources performing ultrasounds they may not deem necessary, raising medical costs, and in cases of rape and incest.
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Corribus
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posted February 26, 2012 07:09 AM |
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What gets me is that people like Elodin are diametrically opposed to "Obamacare" for the reason that government allegedly has no business making medical decisions for patients, interfering with the doctor patient relationship, telling patients what kind of insurance they have to buy, or telling doctors what kinds of procedures to perform, etc., but they have no problem with the government passing laws that require people to have extra medical tests before they have abortions. So which is it - should government pass laws that require patients to have certain procedures done under certain circumstances, or should such decisions be left to doctors? Or do you only support the government getting involved in patient care when it advantageously interferes with lifestyle choices you personally disapprove of?
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Salamandre
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posted February 26, 2012 07:16 AM |
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You do not care much about his answer, as you already know what is it about. I mean, take for example his harsh critic about the burka law, but then asking for a law to prohibit building a mosque on ground zero.
Or love everyone, but kill everyone who lust at your goodies. Just a parody of straight convictions, but not so straight finally.
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kookastar
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posted February 26, 2012 07:37 AM |
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Seriously, internal ultrasounds are far less invasive than a lot of the procedures women go through. In fact I don't find them particularly invasive at all - it's not like a dildo or something lol - it is only just placed at the entrance. It is DEFINATELY a MILLION times better than a pap smear, not to mention all the hoohar that goes with having a baby.
If you are looking at getting an abortion (something I have been fortunate enough to never have to deal with), then this procedure is going to be MINOR compared to the actual abortion. Is it that the person has to see the baby inside them that is the issue? That it makes it harder psychologically to abort after seeing the foetus?
I've just gone through IVF and the ONLY ultrasounds my specialist used were internal. It just gives a better picture of that area and you have the added bonus of not having to fill your bladder and risk peeing all over the place! I don't see what the big deal is. There must be a medical reason for this mandate.
There are still places where abortion is illegal - at least they aren't taking away the woman's right to choose.
All this scare mongering over internal ultrasounds is not good as it is a safe procedure that can detect many problems early and in some cases prevent death. Women need to stop feeling shame about their bodies - and stay healthy! Go on, get that pap smear!!!!  Men, get thy prostrate checked!
hmm maybe you are all a little young
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Corribus
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posted February 26, 2012 08:31 AM |
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Edited by Corribus at 08:38, 26 Feb 2012.
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I don't think it's so much needing an ultrasound as it is that the government is ordering it, and is doing so only as a disuasive measure. Why is the government ordering medical tests? Invasive or not, the government shouldn't really be ordering ANY medical tests for ANYONE, no matter what the reasoning*, and certainly not as a kind of "sin tax".
*The only scenario I could see it being justified is when public safety is on the line, such as in a severe disease outbreak, or to obtain evidence when someone has been charged with a crime for doing something ILLEGAL (i.e., determining BAL, acquiring DNA evidence, paternity testing in custody hearings, etc.
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Adrius
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posted February 26, 2012 12:26 PM |
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I'm guessing that Elodin doesn't think that murderers have rights?
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