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| Thread: Alternative Upgrades Poll |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 24, 2012 01:42 PM |
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Poll Question:
Alternative Upgrades Poll
Assuming that H6 failed to deliver a truly unique full set of alternative upgrades in models and animation, how many of you would be in favour of H5-like alternatives? Meaning similar-looking units with same animations but different abilities and role in battle. Do you think they would be worth implementing in such a form or would you rather see the game's resources spent elsewhere, like more neutrals or maybe even an extra unit per tier? All this is of course speculation on my part but I would like to get some opinions.
To clarify a little more, I do not take balance into account. I consider that alternative upgrades would be more or less balanced with the original upgrades which was one of the big flaws of the H5 alternatives. The poll assumes that both choices would be meaningful, only that the new additions would not have a newly designed model/animations but instead be edited versions of the originals. I am not talking of a recoured model either, just.. not all that different. The high druids looks set them apart from the elder druids for instance but you could tell that one was derived from the other.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted July 24, 2012 03:00 PM |
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I greatly enjoyed the alternative upgrades in Heroes 5 and would welcome them in Heroes 6. They added a lot of depth and replayability.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted July 24, 2012 03:40 PM |
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No
You listed most of my problems with the alts. but I oudl rather see a choince of 3 out of 4 units or at best only the basic setups, but with a bigger motivation to combine arimes. (Like No conversion on maps or increasing the time/cost of it)
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted July 24, 2012 03:47 PM |
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In TotE, most alternative upgrades could be classified as a reskin and did we care much? Not that I recall we were glad for more choices to be had. Very few got new animations, as I recall.
More units = good in my book.
Even if it was just a glorified skins pack with some different abilities. Though a greater difference in style would be more welcome.
Take the Orcs/Stronghold for example. As they are now, they represent Pao Island Orcs. I would be glad if the alternatives would look like the Ranaarian Orcs we've/I've come to love in TotE. Something like that and I'd be very much satisfied. And I am certain that such differences are concievable for every faction.
As is now, H6 lacks creatures, both to choose and especially to fight.
Also, just putting it out there. Hammerhead Sharkguard.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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ChaosWielder
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 24, 2012 03:59 PM |
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It would be alright. I'm not keen on it one way or another. The game needs variety...badly. I guess it's an issue of how many factions are planned for the future: if a few, then this idea is great. If more than, say, 2 are planned, I'd rather see those as quickly as possible.
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Valen-Teen
Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
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posted July 24, 2012 04:15 PM |
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It will be good if there will be some alternatives and some 2-upgrades...
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Our hopes for Heroes VIII!
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted July 24, 2012 04:51 PM |
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NO
What I want to see is at least 2-3 new races, not alternative units. The only thing that I would be interested in is something like was in H4: alternative tier units (H4 has an opinion of an unpolished game, but I think that the units were balanced and it was not such an easy decision to choose either of them). But I think those changes are not possible at this stage of the games development.
About alternative upgrades. I'm almost 100% sure that the game would get additional balancing issues. Also, in my opinion, alternative upgrades in H5 weren't quite skillfully implemented, for instance their color schemes and overall aesthetic feel didn't quite match the style of individual races...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 24, 2012 04:58 PM |
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I don't think it's even possible to make meaningful alternative upgrades, when some unit-upgrades have only better stats, for example the Vampire: The upgrade is just better in every department, but that's it. So we have Vampire and Better Vampire, and if you ask me this is FILLER STUFF.
So would I want an alternative upgrade for that? Called Other Better Vampire with 10 less HPs, but having a couple of points more Defense?
On the other hand, if they really get 35 new abilities that work - why not hand them over to a new faction?
So, no, thanks.
EDIT: Oh, and one other thing. Don't let yourself fool into thinking "simple" alternative upgrades would be a piece of cake to deliver. To quote an official on this issue:
Quote:
It's not just recolouring: it's modifying the model, changing the weapons, creating a new texture, possibly new anims, creating new abilities, changing the GUI, retesting the whole balance... So it's more complicated than you think.
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adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
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posted July 24, 2012 05:22 PM |
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For me ,without new factions, the alternative upgrades count "0". 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted July 24, 2012 05:59 PM |
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This is almost like asking would you like to see 6 new factions implemented, well yeah WHO WOULDN'T, but it needs to be well done and that isn't that simple a task. I don't want the same units over and over again, there is already the problem that some units feel like the same unit. (like Maniac and Ghoul etc and even Ravager and Jaguar warrior)
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Naze
Known Hero
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posted July 24, 2012 06:57 PM |
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Definitely yes. Even if the only difference between the units was attack and defence, or alternation of just one skill, it would still make the game better - you could adapt your strategy to the development of the game.
And regarding the blood/tears system, alternative upgrades would fit H6 extremely well. As far as I know, there was a rumour that H6 should have 2 rare resources. So, the second rare resource could be used for building the alternative upgrades, and the heroes would get blood/tear points according to what units he/she recruits. Or, alternatively, based on your blood/tears choice, you would be able to recruit just one type of the two alternatives. In both cases, it would make H6 much more interesting, and it could diversify the gameplay of various players...
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julle
Adventuring Hero
Simply FABULOUS!
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posted July 24, 2012 07:34 PM |
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I'm for it, just not yet.
give me additional unit per tier first (i'm talking to YOU, thunderbird) as i feel this is more intresting. two champions á faction would be awesome as well making battlefields larger. after this i'd be all for it
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 24, 2012 07:44 PM |
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The problem of adding one creature per tier is that balancing becomes almost impossible, with so many lategame armies (4x4x2?).
That's why I'd rather go to "simply" 1 or 2 tier alternatives, especially with champion tier.
PD: Remenber Ubisoft answer to La Torre de Marfil Q&A, where they stated "Alternative Champion units are an interesting idea, but they are not part of our immediate scope."
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LarkinVB
Known Hero
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posted July 24, 2012 07:49 PM |
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Since I'm using the same upgrades again and again more variety does not add more fun. I prefer more neutrals, another unit per tier and a random map generator + AI.
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esvath
Known Hero
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posted July 24, 2012 10:52 PM |
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I prefer they pool their resources for new factions and new units (NOT reskin) per tier for existing factions.
And maybe better treatment for offline players? Current discrimination is suck.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted July 24, 2012 11:09 PM |
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@JJ Sure the vampires were stronger, but no enemy retaliation is a brutal ability, and I'd gladly sacrifice some health and damage for it.
I usually tailor my armies to suit a particular foe, and I found that in TOTE the two upgrades differed mainly in one side being more support/defense, and the other being more offense, which I'd welcome in H6, it adds variation and counters predictability of outcomes. Though there were a few obvious broken upgrades, which I dread to name.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Kivo
Famous Hero
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posted July 24, 2012 11:36 PM |
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The game is still un-balanced. It needs improving. Like adding War machines and the feature when you see how many turns it takes to move to one location, more to that bugs need fixing, balancing and so on. Maybe when the game will be improved then bring them on. Im still waiting to play MMH6 properly, I dont know how long I will still have to wait.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 24, 2012 11:56 PM |
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I haven't played the game yet myself, but looking from the outside in, one thought that occurs to me is that now that you have a common pool for a tier you no longer need alternate upgrades to tune your faction to a specific play balance, if you want say more long range-striking power, pick more archers and fast-attackers and fewer tanks.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 25, 2012 12:03 AM |
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That's not how it works, each unit has a growth as it always had.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 25, 2012 12:07 AM |
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Quote:
The problem of adding one creature per tier is that balancing becomes almost impossible, with so many lategame armies (4x4x2?).
That's why I'd rather go to "simply" 1 or 2 tier alternatives, especially with champion tier.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here, first you seem to argue against adding another creature per tier, and then you say you'd rather go with extra creatures per tier? Clearly I'm not understanding something?
OTHER
I voted other because I wasn't sure where to vote, but I'm not in favor of alternative upgrades with the current system. (Perhaps?) in contrary to above quote, I think alternative upgrades would be harder to balance because you'd have to make the two creatures (almost) exactly equal in strength, whereas a creature pool where you chose 3 out of 4 (for tier 1 or 2) will offer 4 different combinations of choices, so as long as each of these have a very defined use and is different from the others you can chose the combination that fits your needs best.
Preferentially units should have a certain part of situational usefulness rather than universal usefulness, because universal usefulness always undermines the element of choice. I think it would be good if for each unit you could say "this unit is particularly useful against faction X and Y" (perhaps unit has magic resistance making it useful against magic oriented factions, perhaps unit is very tanky and defensive, making it usefull against factions with fast but fragile hitters) and then have the different units on each tier cover the different factions in their specialization.
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What will happen now?
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