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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 16, 2013 11:04 AM |
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Edited by blob2 at 11:05, 16 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
This is why I was hesitant to accept Black Dragons in the lineup:
Look how tiny they have to be to fit in a 2x2 square! His body is smaller than the Crusader's horse. It looks a little ridiculous imo.
Maybe they should've made the Blackies (actually the purple ones are called Shadow Dragons  ) the first ever 2x3 unit (beside the bosses of course) to make it bigger? With a two field breath attack it would make quite an interesting unit strategically speaking (although the Tactics I ability would probably get in the way of this). I wonder if they should do a color swap because as we can see they are showing the non-upgraded purple version to match other all-purple upgraded units in the screens. And the upgraded Dragon is blackish orange, so he doesn't quite fit to the rest of those Purple Legions...
And about the racial. I don't think that the icon has anything to do with how the ability works. What I mean it's not making more clones as the icon could suggest (remember how for instance Necromancy icon works? We get more skulls with each new levels icon, yet we can only resurrect one unit, so the icon is just a graphic representation of this). So level 1-3 gives clones of higher tiers respectively, and the final would maybe make a permanent clone (that is not destroyed after first attack), with like 1/2 of the cloned units attack power (and the same size). Whatever they do, we will probably not get something entirely new (if the racial is Invisibility it will probably be similar to Heavens racial)...
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 16, 2013 11:33 AM |
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2x3 unit? sounds interesting to try, but on balance mmm.....
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Elvin 
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 16, 2013 11:45 AM |
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I would have loved to see more diverse unit sizes but H6 battlefield is a tad small for that  Also 2x2 is just too.. tidy. I miss the hex grid.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Hermestri
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 16, 2013 11:48 AM |
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Quote:
remember how for instance Necromancy icon works? We get more skulls with each new levels icon, yet we can only resurrect one unit, so the icon is just a graphic representation of this).
Well, Necromancy IV actually resurrects number of stacks..
Maybe the racial creates 1, 2, 3 or 4 clones and makes it so the opponent doesn't know who the clones are. Attacking a clone destroys it, attacking a real creature destroys all of the clones...Not sure how are spells would work..
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted January 16, 2013 11:58 AM |
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I like how Ubi trolls us with this Academy staff... So cruel !
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 16, 2013 12:03 PM |
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Oh there are references and nods about pretty much everything, since the very beginning. Wish the game had matched the expansion of its lore.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 16, 2013 12:09 PM |
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Quote:
I like how Ubi trolls us with this Academy staff... So cruel !
But we have that staff since ages...or it's different from othe DW Academy staff?
Quote:
Oh there are references and nods about pretty much everything, since the very beginning. Wish the game had matched the expansion of its lore.
Luckily the lore expansion isn't limited to HVI
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 16, 2013 12:38 PM |
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Good comment Blob2 
The racial pic doubling up on level II doesn't mean anything....probably just that elites can be used too....
What about a racial that mixes cloning & invisibility?
Like creating a clone that is actually invisible and the clone can act exactly like it's cloner troop on the battlefield for the duration of one turn and then the clone disappears (thus ignoring H5 mechanics of how invisiblity worked)....
Although could be similarities with other factions:
Cloning  Gating
Invisibility Gaurdian Angel
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 16, 2013 01:04 PM |
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Ok, here is something for you to chew on with regard to the racial.
A couple here mentioned that would be quite similar to Guardian Angel - but is it?
If you play Haven and your gauge is full (meaning you can Guarddian Angel a Core unit), from the moment you do it, the effect last 1 turn. That means, the unit is invulnerable and will get an opportunity to hit NO MATTER WHAT and when you cast.
Now suppose Dungeon racial was invisibility. Does it make sense to cast it on a stack, no matter what? Not really, right? Because while the unit would disappear from sight, it would still be at its place, which means, if it was opponent's next unit turn, it might simply move to "last known location", which would mean invisibility bye-bye.
So obviously the first thing to keep in mind here is, suppose Dungeon racial WAS invisibility, you would have to use it that way, that no opposing unit might move to it before it was the turn of the invisible unit (i.e., it must be cast shortly before it's the invisible unit's turn).
Now, obviously an invisible unit will become visible once it strikes - would it make a lot of sense to make a unit invisible shortly before it's that unit's turn, just to move it to an opponent, strike and become visible again?
However, if you would NOT immediately strike, let's say because you wanted to disappear for shooters and croos the battlefield, the effect would have to last longer than a turn, otherwise the unit would become visible before its second move.
So if Dungeon racial would be invisibility - which I don't say; I just think it through - it would seem that it would have to be somewhat ... different, come with a twist, last a couple of turns, something like that, right?
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 16, 2013 01:14 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 13:17, 16 Jan 2013.
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Quote:
Well, Necromancy IV actually resurrects number of stacks..
Yeah I know, but it's the uber-form of Necros racial so a special bonus is required no?
Quote:
What about a racial that mixes cloning & invisibility?
Yeah it could also work, but only if the clones power is nerfed. I suppose an invisible copy with the same power as the cloned unit would be a bit overpowering. I also thought about the "confusing" clones variant (Kage Bunsin no Juutsu! ) like Hermestri suggested, but I think it wouldn't be possible to execute. I mean to work out the ability would have to randomly (or manualy) relocate your unit so that the enemy won't know which one is real...
I wonder what Elvin knows about this 
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 16, 2013 02:08 PM |
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@JJ - You are talking about Invisibility with H5 mechanics....
Invisibility in H6 could be completely different ie:
- Invisibility stays even when enemy gets near the troop
- Invisiblity stays when the troop attacks
- Enemy can't attack invisible troop even if it knows where it is
The only thing that could stop Invisiblity in H6 would be the racial duration ie. one turn.
Similar to Guardian Angel though....
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted January 16, 2013 02:13 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
remember how for instance Necromancy icon works? We get more skulls with each new levels icon, yet we can only resurrect one unit, so the icon is just a graphic representation of this).
Well, Necromancy IV actually resurrects number of stacks..
Maybe the racial creates 1, 2, 3 or 4 clones and makes it so the opponent doesn't know who the clones are. Attacking a clone destroys it, attacking a real creature destroys all of the clones...Not sure how are spells would work..
Necromancy increases which Tier it can affect with each racial gauge level. I suspect something similar applies to the Dark Elf racial gauge.
JJ is hinting at invisibility with a twist. If it's invisibility, then at least the enemy shouldn't get a retaliation strike. But like he argues, it's useless if you don't move immediately ... and it's equally useless if you strike and immediately reappear; then in essence it becomes a no-retaliation strike instead.
So, another suggestion that I have is that it actually affects the number of turns a unit is invisible, perhaps coupled to a Tier. If you cast it on a unit before it moves, it becomes invisible until X amount of turns have passed. All that time, the unit can attack without fear of retaliation. The only thing the unit may suffer from are area of effect attacks (be it a spell from a Hero or an area of effect strike from a creature) and possible damage shields.
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nerevar
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 16, 2013 02:17 PM |
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Perhaps invisibility combined with a small teleport effect? The unit is invisible, yet the enemy can't pinpoint it.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 16, 2013 02:35 PM |
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Quote:
- Invisibility stays even when enemy gets near the troop
That could work.
Quote:
- Invisiblity stays when the troop attacks
That would just be OP.
Quote:
- Enemy can't attack invisible troop even if it knows where it is
That would just be retarded.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 16, 2013 02:40 PM |
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Quote:
- Invisibility stays even when enemy gets near the troop
Foolish, because the unit wouldn't be invisible anymore, since you cannot walk onto the square the unit is on. So that makes no sense.
Quote:
- Invisiblity stays when the troop attacks
- Enemy can't attack invisible troop even if it knows where it is
That's just Guardian Angel with another name.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted January 16, 2013 02:41 PM |
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I do not think it will be as simple as invisibility. Pure transparency sounds more like a light ability and dungeon should be exposed by light. Light decieves, darkness conceals.
But imagine a dungeon racial or darkness spell that summons black clouds over an area where you can hide your units. Enemies could still target a specific part of the cloud and hit the hidden unit if they guessed right. The next turn a clouded unit could literally strike from the shadows with maybe surprise bonuses. This certainly would be fitting for dungeons image or the darkness school. If it was a dungeon racial then it could increase in size (allowing for more and larger units to hide) and give better surprise bonuses. If it was a darkness spell it could have a larger but maybe weaker version as well.
Quote:
...intricate patterns of light constantly dissolving, like galaxies being swallowed by the eternal darkness of space.
About the Black Dragon, I hope it does not have complete magic resistance. It says that it pretty mcuh sucks up light which would explain all the sparkles and would make it perfect for it to have 100% light magic resist. That would make the Black Dragon an exellent counter against the dungeon overall light weakness. I will hope that they have already made it this way.
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blob2
Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
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posted January 16, 2013 03:04 PM |
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Edited by blob2 at 15:05, 16 Jan 2013.
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I've got two more propositions for racial:
One is a little retarded but here goes:
Shadow Strike -> strike and return teleport ability with bonus damage (kinda like an assassins strike). It's kinda retarded because it's useless for ranged troop (well maybe bonus damage would be useful). Heck maybe this will even be the Assassin unit active ability...
And the second, a rip off from Guardians Angel, it doesn't make your unit totally invisible, but blurs it with dark magic, so that enemies cannot damage it (maybe only with spells) + plus bonus damage for the unit. It could make nice combos with teleport spell: throw a unit behind enemy lines, conceal it and bash enemies with bonus damage
Also there could be a racial that gives your units evasion chances but it would be totally irritating to fight with :/
Although I would go for the clones ability, I always liked summoning type abilities (reinforcements, gating etc)...
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted January 16, 2013 05:09 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
- Invisibility stays even when enemy gets near the troop
Foolish, because the unit wouldn't be invisible anymore, since you cannot walk onto the square the unit is on. So that makes no sense.
Misunderstood me, not saying the enemy can walk onto the square the unit is on, but adjacent to the unit.....ie not using H5 mechanics....the unit would stay invisible and no enemy unit could walk through or on or even attack that tile.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 16, 2013 05:17 PM |
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Sounds like Guardian Angel with a different name.
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted January 17, 2013 06:03 AM |
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Quote:
I would have loved to see more diverse unit sizes but H6 battlefield is a tad small for that Also 2x2 is just too.. tidy. I miss the hex grid.
Booo hex grid 
The mini grid they had in heroes 4 was almost good, it could have made the game simultaneously fluid and structured. I think they should give that another shot, but think about it a bit as they do it. That had potential. I wish they had more abilities that were location dependent, to make the battle more chess like. Imagine if in chess every piece could move every direction a distance dependent on its rank, that would hardly even be a game. Heroes needs more knock back, slow moving creatures, creatures which can effectively block paths of others, squishier shooters, line attack abilities, traps (hey - imagine if you made a 3x3 and anything standing on it took massive damage 2 turns later, that would be awesome), and things that make you really think about where you place your creatures, even think turns ahead. Turtle box and frontal assault are boooooring.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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