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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Its not the end of the world...
Thread: Its not the end of the world... This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted March 11, 2013 03:02 AM
Edited by Seraphim at 03:10, 11 Mar 2013.

Its not the end of the world...

New wave of superbugs poses dire threat, says chief medical officer
(Yes,I know the journalist is an idiot.Seriously, "Super-bugs"?)

Quote:

Antibiotic-resistant bacteria with the potential to cause untreatable infections pose "a catastrophic threat" to the population, the chief medical officer warns in a report calling for urgent action in Britain and worldwide.

If tough measures are not taken to restrict the use of antibiotics and no new ones are discovered, said Dame Sally Davies, "we will find ourselves in a health system not dissimilar to the early 19th century at some point".

While antibiotics are failing, new bacterial diseases are on the rise. Although the "superbugs" MRSA and C difficile have been reduced to low numbers in hospitals, there has been an alarming increase in other types of bacteria including new strains of E coli and Klebsiella, which causes pneumonia.

These so-called "gram negative" bacteria, which are found in the gut instead of on the skin, are highly dangerous to older and frailer people and few antibiotics remain effective against drug-resistant strains.

As many as 5,000 patients die each year in the UK of gram negative sepsis where the bacterium gets into the bloodstream and in half the cases the bacterium is resistant to drugs.

"Antimicrobial resistance poses a catastrophic threat," said Davies.


...but its not hard to see it from here.


Obviously, with the increasing presence of Drug resistant bacteria and more infections occurring each year, humanity will be living in the 19th century onward into the future with millions of people dying of Tuberculosis and other lethal bacteria .

So people, next time you get sick, dont take your antibiotics casually.

Drug resistant bacteria are a serious issue and those infected by HIV  and suffering from AIDS will die even faster.

For the first time in human history, apart from the incoming food crisis, water crisis, flood crisis, energy crisis,Yellowstone supervolcano we can safely add this issue on the list of things that tell us why the future will be "Grim".

Hey, enjoy your sunny days as much as you can and be happy you are not infected by TBC.



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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted March 11, 2013 09:38 AM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 09:41, 11 Mar 2013.

I don't know how they didn't see it coming.

Quote:
"We haven't had a new class of antibiotics since the late 80s and there are very few antibiotics in the pipeline of the big pharmaceutical companies that develop and make drugs,"


The gross overuse of antibiotics is what's causing this.

The bacteria is sophisticated and we can relate to it. It adapts to deal with things that want to do it harm, and the overuse/misapplication of antibiotics enabled bacteria to adapt in all cases, (i'm not certain, but I think only the human body can actually achieve 100%) but only in a few has it become a problem. This over-reliance on antibiotics for every measly affliction has rendered many immune systems inapt and just strengthened the bacteria.

Cutting back on nonessential use of antibiotics is paramount.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 11, 2013 02:31 PM

Just to note that most of worlds medicines are produced in indochina, the rivers there are full of antibiotic leftovers from the production leading to concentrations that are poisonous to humans. The overuse of antibiotics is not even close to the problems the strains evolving there cause.
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Adrius
Adrius


Honorable
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Stand and fight!
posted March 11, 2013 02:33 PM
Edited by Adrius at 14:35, 11 Mar 2013.

I haven't taken medicine for an illness since I was like 9

Really differs from family to family though... my cousins used to get effing pumped full of medicine by their parents as soon as they coughed.

@Joonas: Interesting, didn't know that.

Quote:
i live my life like i could die any day

People must be getting tired of your farewell speeches ^^
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 11, 2013 02:38 PM

Live your life like you could die any moment, plan to live forever.
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markkur
markkur


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Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted March 11, 2013 05:00 PM

Whatever the real danger, it's another reason why all borders need to be secure. What gets lost in the current hubbub about the security and tax issues is that effective borders are very necessary for containment & control measures regarding the spread of disease.

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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted March 11, 2013 11:34 PM
Edited by Seraphim at 00:06, 12 Mar 2013.

Quote:
lol, i knew all the medicines that people take just to get through the day would come back to bite them one day. i've been sick for the past 3 weeks, and i've been letting my immune system handle it. the way i see it, by taking cold medicine, you're not letting your immune system get the workout it needs to really fight what ails you. by taking so much medicine, people have weakened their immune systems to the point that if something bad comes along, they will need medicine just to live. and how much medicine can they make, for the billions of people across the world? can you say, placebo? the rich will get what they need, when the shatner hits the fan, while the rest of us will be suffering. i can see it happening. i'm not worried, tho. i live my life like i could die any day, so dying isn't really that big of a problem for me.



Well, you cant train your immune system. The thing about bacteria is that that even if you get cured, you can get infected or re-infected by the same bacterium again. NO IMMUNITY.

Influenza and the common cold are simmilar. WHile after surviving an influenza virus, your body develops antibodies to that type of virus but since the mutation rate is so high, you can get infected by another mutated strain. You can pump yourself with antibiotics and those antibiotics target your immune system aswell. That is why when people get the common cold, they should not TAKE antibiotics.
But even if people were precautious, its just a delaying tactic.

And come on, who the hell takes medicine correctly? Once people "feel" better, they stop the treatment because the drugs make them feel bad...
Yeah, and shame to the doctors who prescribe antibiotics as if they were chocolate.


If drug resistant Mycobacterium tuberculosis gets to spread to the public, it will be a disaster to the level of biological warfare.
...and its funny to read comments about people talking about the Illuminati or how God will "Protect" the faithful...

Yeah, on the link I posted there was a guy who said "God will protect us"....
Tuberculosis is one of the worst diseases one get on earth.  It is as as AIDS.
While the default form is treatable, it takes ONE YEAR to treat it and it can spread by air.

Quote:


Whatever the real danger, it's another reason why all borders need to be secure. What gets lost in the current hubbub about the security and tax issues is that effective borders are very necessary for containment & control measures regarding the spread of disease.


Except that border control will not help in this case. Unless you block all, I mean ALL trafic into one country, preventing reinfections is impossible.
HIV was able to spread onto the whole planet eventhough it cannot be transmited through air or casual contact and is easily verifiable.

Now imagine what would happen if a disease is able to spread by air is very hard to diagnose.

Quote:

Diagnosing active tuberculosis based merely on signs and symptoms is difficult,[54] as is diagnosing the disease in those who are immunosuppressed.[55] A diagnosis of TB should, however, be considered in those with signs of lung disease or constitutional symptoms lasting longer than two weeks.[55] A chest X-ray and multiple sputum cultures for acid-fast bacilli are typically part of the initial evaluation.[55] Interferon-γ release assays and tuberculin skin tests are of little use in the developing world.[56][57] IGRA have similar limitations in those with HIV.[57][58]

A definitive diagnosis of TB is made by identifying M. tuberculosis in a clinical sample (e.g. sputum, pus, or a tissue biopsy). However, the difficult culture process for this slow-growing organism can take two to six weeks for blood or sputum culture.[59] Thus, treatment is often begun before cultures are confirmed.[60]

Nucleic acid amplification tests and adenosine deaminase testing may allow rapid diagnosis of TB.[54] These tests, however, are not routinely recommended, as they rarely alter how a person is treated.[60] Blood tests to detect antibodies are not specific or sensitive, so they are not recommended.[61]

Latent tuberculosis


Mantoux tuberculin skin test
The Mantoux tuberculin skin test is often used to screen people at high risk for TB.[55] Those who have been previously immunized may have a false-positive test result.[62] The test may be falsely negative in those with sarcoidosis, Hodgkin's lymphoma, malnutrition, or most notably, in those who truly do have active tuberculosis.[1] Interferon gamma release assays (IGRAs), on a blood sample, are recommended in those who are positive to the Mantoux test.[60] These are not affected by immunization or most environmental mycobacteria, so they generate fewer false-positive results.[63] However they are affected by M. szulgai, M. marinum and M. kansasii.[64] IGRAs may increase sensitivity when used in addition to the skin test but may be less sensitive than the skin test when used alone


In other words, if drug resistent lethal bacteria spread, we are snowed.




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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted March 11, 2013 11:40 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 23:44, 11 Mar 2013.

Quote:

Well, you cant train your immune system. The thing about bacteria is that that even if you get cured, you can get infected or re-infected by the same bacterium again. NO IMMUNITY.


Not true...Some people like myself are sensitive to certain type of bacteria, or activity that increases the chances of infection, but your body DOES adapt.
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted March 11, 2013 11:46 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Well, you cant train your immune system. The thing about bacteria is that that even if you get cured, you can get infected or re-infected by the same bacterium again. NO IMMUNITY.


Not true...Some people like myself are sensitive to certain type of bacteria, or activity that increases the chances of infection, but your body DOES adapt.


Well, I took a microbiology class in Univeristy and the professor said clearly that bacterial immunity is a myth. The text book said aswell.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


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Scourge of God
posted March 11, 2013 11:51 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 23:56, 11 Mar 2013.

What I meant was though immunity is impossible, you can train your body to be able to adapt, enabling it to deal with the problem when it arises.

Also what did your professor mean? Did he mean universal immunity to all bacteria is impossible? Or that you cannot be immune to any strain?
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Seraphim
Seraphim


Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
posted March 12, 2013 12:03 AM
Edited by Seraphim at 00:05, 12 Mar 2013.

Quote:
What I meant was though immunity is impossible, you can train your body to be able to adapt, enabling it to deal with the problem when it arises.

Also what did your professor mean? Did he mean universal immunity to all bacteria is impossible? Or that you cannot be immune to any strain?


You cannot develop resistence once passing an infection.
Say person X gets infected by any bactrial disease. Once the person gets treated and is healthy, reinfection can still happen. That is usually the case with Salmonella as it lingers around moisty surfaces.

Now about immunity. You cannot develop imunity against bacteria. Either your immune system neutralizes the threat or it spreads and you die.

That is different with some viruses like Hepatitis A. Once you pass infection and get healthy, your body develops immunity and you will NEVER again get infected by Hepatitis A.

Also, I dont know how you can "Train" your body. Like how?
Even if you were able to increase your lymphocyte number, that would hardly be helpful against something like Salmonella or TBC.



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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


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Scourge of God
posted March 12, 2013 12:28 AM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 00:30, 12 Mar 2013.

The overuse of drugs serves only to dampened the immune system. By training I meant that instead of jumping straight for the pills every time you have have an infection like a cough, which will strengthen your immune system enough to offer adequate protection (with drugs) to fight off the more serious bacteria.

Anyway, after some research it seems that it's the gross misapplication of antibiotics that might lead to untreatable strains rather than just simple overuse of drugs. (they are linked though since a weak immune is a major hindrance, imo)

Anyway this is my stance, had a severe bacterial infection on both my hand and feet, and due to being used like a lab rat by my GP the infection only spread. My feet was solved via hospital and hasn't returned since. My hand on the other-hand is a constant battle, haven't used drugs for it since I was 16, but my body is clearly handling it.
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted March 12, 2013 12:51 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 04:48, 12 Mar 2013.

I'm not an immunologist or anything, but I assumed it was basically a given that using antibiotics on biotics will make biotics more anti-antibiotics. Why wouldn't it? There's just certain procedures you can follow to curb this as much as possible and we aren't really doing everything that we could be doing.

Anyway, the impending Food/water/land/energy/climate/****ing-everything Crisis is apparently going to be avoided in lieu of the fact that we all gonna die.

btw @ Adrius: It's antibiotics that are the issue, not medicine in general. Typical medicine just relieves symptoms until your immune system wipes out the disease. Antibiotics are like angry gladiators that were abused as children; they'll actually attack the disease as your immune system would.
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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted March 12, 2013 12:51 AM

Seraphim, I thought the principle of vaccines were to give you weakened version of bacteria so your immune system gets stronger against it. how does that work then?

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted March 12, 2013 12:59 AM
Edited by del_diablo at 01:07, 12 Mar 2013.

Quote:
In other words, if drug resistent lethal bacteria spread, we are snowed.


We? What we? I am in a country that learned a lot when a ship arrived in 1349 to a small place called Bjorgvin, and that cost the country its entire future as Northern Imperialist.








Also:
Strain A infects you for minor reason, strain A evolves into strain B-X doctor prescribes anti biotics, it kills most of it, but strain C survives because it got lucky, so now strain C can ignore all prescribed anti biotics, and since the doctor gave you one, he has likely given one to somebody who is not in good health for various reasons, so strain C infects this person and evolves more.

Also known as "Why antibiotics should never be prescribed, EVER".
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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted March 12, 2013 01:12 AM

Except often times you'll simply wipe out a strain entirely in a person and/or the strain isn't contagious. With stringent standards the progress of strains that are increasingly resistant to antibiotics can be reduced to a snail's pace, and also it should be noted that a strain that is resistant to certain antibiotics isn't necessarily going to mean it's more resistant to your actual immune system.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted March 12, 2013 07:58 AM

People, get real, it's like a war, and in that war our side has introduced a couple of very powerful weapons over the centuries. One of those weapons are antibiotics. There is nothing to discuss about the use of them, since they've been a blessing - but they didn't win the war, and the other side's survivors are fighting back.

Generally warnings are coming mainly due to the fact that the research has been les and less successful the last decades, since every year less new antibiotics are found.

Still, even if there are immune strains, people are not worse off than before antibiotics, except that they had to rely on their immune system for everything which hasn't been that successful a method. People have died from tuberculosis half a million years ago.

It looks like the next miracle stuff has been found, though: Mellitin, part of the poison that bees produce, seems to kill HIV, certain bacteria and even attack tumors.

Of course we have a problem with antibiotics, but that's with cattle and their treatment. Since they have to exist in pitiful conditions they are prone to all kinds of stuff - and are given antibiotics in copious quantities, poisoning the water.
For humans, that's second rate, except where it all concentrates: in hospitals.

Every medicine has one or another side effect, that's in the nature of things, and it will keep that way, until we can boost the immune system directly, making it work like that of a rat or even a bat. We ARE pretty helpless against virusses, are we, antibiotics or not?


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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


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Scourge of God
posted March 12, 2013 08:02 AM

I've been given to understand that the body is physically capable of dealing with every kind of outsider, but its targeting system is ****. Any truth to this?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted March 12, 2013 08:27 AM

Obviously that's wrong, since the body can't defend against stuff targetting the immune system. Virusses in general cannot be beaten. If you have a virus, you have it. The body may get it to become inert, but it keeps with you.
For example, if you have Herpes Simplex you have it your whole life. If you "get it", it's just your old strain becoming active again.

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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
posted March 12, 2013 08:59 AM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 09:02, 12 Mar 2013.

Viruses are different since it integrates with your system, but that still comes down to the fact that your immune system doesn't consider it a threat, ergo doesn't annihilate the virus. Same with afflictions like HIV that target the immune system.

Just in-case you misunderstood, I was stating that whiteblood cells are equipped to deal with any situation, but they can't due to the fact that their friend-foe sensors are inapt. This is what I was asking if it's correct.
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