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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Government abuse of power
Thread: Government abuse of power This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT»
Elodin
Elodin


Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
posted May 10, 2013 07:25 PM

Government abuse of power

Under Obama the IRS has been turned into a political weapon. The Internal Revenue Service admits to targeting conservatives and issued an apology. The IRS is saying that "low level workers" are the ones responsible for the abuse of power. Yeah, sure.

IRS apologizes for targeting conservatives

Quote:

The Internal Revenue Service inappropriately flagged conservative political groups for additional reviews during the 2012 election to see if they were violating their tax-exempt status, a top IRS official said Friday.

Organizations were singled out because they included the words "tea party" or "patriot" in their applications for tax-exempt status, said Lois Lerner, who heads the IRS division that oversees tax-exempt groups.

In some cases, groups were asked for their list of donors, which violates IRS policy in most cases, she said.

"That was wrong. That was absolutely incorrect, it was insensitive and it was inappropriate. That's not how we go about selecting cases for further review," Lerner said at a conference sponsored by the American Bar Association.

"The IRS would like to apologize for that," she added.

Lerner said the practice was initiated by low-level workers in Cincinnati and was not motivated by political bias. After her talk, she told The AP that no high level IRS officials knew about the practice. She did not say when they found out.

Many conservative groups complained during the election that they were being harassed by the IRS. They accused the agency of frustrating their attempts to become tax exempt by sending them lengthy, intrusive questionnaires.

The forms, which the groups made available at the time, sought information about group members' political activities, including details of their postings on social networking websites and about family members.


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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted May 10, 2013 11:06 PM

Shouldn't the IRS yearly check every single group excepted, to see if they met the status for the year? And exactly how is it abuse to check?
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Promising
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Scourge of God
posted May 10, 2013 11:11 PM

I was under the impression that both republicans aand democrats are conservatives.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
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Free Thinker
posted May 11, 2013 09:41 PM
Edited by Elodin at 21:43, 11 May 2013.

There IRS intimidation/oppression of conservative political groups should have some folks going to federal prison before its all said and done. The scandal keeps growing. It would be worse that Watergate if it were proved the president had knowledge of it. There will be hearings in the house, a special prosecutor, I'm sure, and then prosecutions of the criminals who carried this out.

clicky

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) — A federal watchdog's upcoming report says senior Internal Revenue Service officials knew agents were targeting tea party groups in 2011.

The disclosure contradicts public statements by former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman, who repeatedly assured Congress that conservative groups were not targeted.

On Friday, the IRS apologized for what it acknowledged was "inappropriate" targeting of conservative political groups during the 2012 election to see if those groups were violating their tax-exempt status.

The Treasury's inspector general for tax administration is expected to release the results of a nearly yearlong investigation in the coming week.

The Associated Press obtained part of the draft report.

That report says the head of the IRS division that oversees tax-exempt groups learned that groups were being targeted in June 2011. It does not say whether Shulman was notified.



Meanwhile
Benghazi-gate
may result in heads rolling too. People from the white house on down have lied about it and scrubbed documents.
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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted May 11, 2013 11:17 PM

Meanwhile on Slashdot...............

Quote:
The fact that the IRS has permitted the LDS and Catholics to get away with using tax exempt resources to campaign does not mean that the IRS should be required to let everybody do it. It means that the IRS needs to do a better job of enforcing the code.

Quote:
Mike, you can engage in political activity and still be a 501c3 or 4, but it can't be your primary activity.

An organization whose primary activity is political cannot be a non-profit according to those statutes. I'm sure even you would admit that the various teachers' unions are not primarily political organizations. Not as long as they are negotiating contracts, representing members, etc. There are a LOT of teachers in the US and the teachers' unions are very busy even in non-election years. You might be surprised to learn that there are lots of parts of the country where the locals do absolutely no political work at all.


Quote:
Not to mention that Media Matters still has it's tax-exempt status unquestioned.

Quote:
The IRS was right to apologize, but they apologized for the wrong thing. They should have put EVERY political group seeking tax-exempt status through this kind of scrutiny. The fact that these groups (both left and right) get to avoid taxes while manipulating elections is embarassing. Of course, the real problem is that they have so much power and so little transparency to start with, but if the only victory we can get right now is to make them pay taxes, let's start with that.


Quote:
If you are wondering what the fuss is about, then read the article. Excerpt:

Quote:
Third, and perhaps most troubling, those tea-party organizations were sent letters of inquiry demanding information that would seldom if ever be demanded of any other applicant in the process. The IRS demanded lists of donors, names of spouses and family members, detailed information about political views and associations — all of that "under penalties of perjury." Many applicants dropped out of the process. The questions were remarkably invasive: For example, the IRS demanded to know not only whether political candidates participated in public forums conducted by the groups, but which issues were discussed, along with copies of any literature distributed at the forum and material published on websites. (The IRS has been less forthcoming with its own materials related to this investigation.)


Even if you are opposed to the Tea Party, this should trouble you. Imagine the shoe on the other foot... let's say a hard-line right-wing President gets elected, and the IRS starts going after LBGT groups in this way. Would you still be okay with it? If not, you damn well shouldn't be okay with it now.

Rights are for everyone, not just people you like. And people have the right to not have a goverment agency abuse its power to squash their exercise of free speech.

Are you angry about this? You should be.




So summary:
-IRS did parts of its job
-It also broke its own procedures for how to investigate
-At the same time, this was not a part of a 100% investigation where they did this against all 501c3 and/or 4 groups.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
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Free Thinker
posted May 13, 2013 06:09 PM
Edited by Elodin at 18:09, 13 May 2013.

The IRS scandal is continuing to grow with top IRS officials apparently being involved and the scope of intimidation more wide than previously indicated. Some top democrats are now on board with the Republicans for the upcoming investigation.

Clicky
Quote:

An IRS campaign to apply additional scrutiny to conservative groups went beyond targeting "Tea Party" and "patriot" groups to include those focused on government spending, the Constitution and several other broad areas.

The additional guidelines created by the agency were part of a timeline, obtained by Fox News, from the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration, which is looking into the controversial IRS practice. IRS officials apologized Friday for the scrutiny, but new information suggests senior leaders were apprised of the effort as early as 2011 despite public denials from the top.

Republican lawmakers have vowed to investigate and hold hearings, calling the revelations deeply troubling.

"The conclusion that the IRS came to is that they did have agents who were engaged in intimidation of political groups," Michigan Rep. Mike Rogers told "Fox News Sunday." "I don't care if you're a conservative, a liberal, a Democrat or a Republican, this should send a chill up your spine. It needs to have a full investigation."

A top Democrat -- Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus -- also said Monday that his committee would launch a "full investigation" into the matter.

"These actions by the IRS are an outrageous abuse of power and a breach of the public's trust. Targeting groups based on their political views is not only inappropriate but it is intolerable," the Montana Democrat said in a statement. "Americans expect the IRS to do its job without passion or prejudice. We need to get to the bottom of what happened here. ... The IRS will now be the ones put under additional scrutiny."
....



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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted May 13, 2013 07:26 PM

Quote:
I was under the impression that both republicans aand democrats are conservatives.


They are whatever will get them votes.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted May 13, 2013 09:11 PM

Meanwhile, Benhazi-gate investigation keeps rolling on, with whistle-blowers testifying, but Obama keeps up the lies about what his administration said. Political correctness killed in Benghazi and then political correctness resulted in administration coverups.

Clicky

Quote:


The president, with his comments, echoed remarks made by then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who asked during testimony in January "what difference" did the controversy over the talking points make.

Obama on Monday dismissed the questions as rooted in "political motivations."

Since Clinton's testimony, though, new details have been made public about the administration's early efforts to explain what happened in Benghazi last September. Despite claims that the White House and State Department were not heavily involved in editing the intelligence community's narrative, emails show State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland pushed to remove references to Al Qaeda and to the intelligence community's prior warnings about security in the region.

Based on those talking points, U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice went on five Sunday shows to claim the attack was prompted by a protest over an anti-Islam film.

Further, three State Department whistle-blowers testified last week, with one claiming he was shocked and "embarrassed" to hear Rice's comments since he knew it was a terror attack all along.



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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 13, 2013 09:54 PM

Honestly, to watch Jay Carney tap dance over this debacle... it's just embarassing.  I really don't know how he makes it through a press conference any more with a straight face.  The worst part is, the only reason the administration is lying now is because to tell the truth would be to admit they lied before, and the only reason they lied before was because it was an election cycle.  It's just lies to cover up lies, and when that happens you ALWAYS reach a point where its so obvious you are lying that it just becomes an uncomfortable comedy routine.

Gotta say I'm happy the mainstream media isn't letting this one drop.
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
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Free Thinker
posted May 14, 2013 10:45 PM

The IRS intimidation scandal is continuing to grow. The IRS had admitted to one office harrassing and intimidating conservative groups. Now other offices are being implicated also. I'll bet even more are uncovered.

Clicky

Quote:

The IRS has admitted that members of its Cincinnati office engaged in such activity. But documents suggest at least three other IRS offices did the same.

Letters provided to CNN show IRS officials in Washington and California contacted conservative groups to demand more information before approving the groups' requests for tax-exempt status.

The American Center for Law and Justice, a legal group representing numerous conservative organizations, provided CNN with four such letters: one each from IRS offices in Washington; Cincinnati; El Monte, California, and Laguna Niguel, California.

The words "patriots" or "tea party" figured in the names of each group that received the letter.



And now there is a scandal the Department of Justice.

Clicky

Obama's administration has turned out to be very corrupt after promising, "hope and change."
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Mytical
Mytical


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
posted May 15, 2013 12:51 AM

Or, you know, Obama is not omnipotent and did not know anything about it.   Nah, that couldn't be that.  
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
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Free Thinker
posted May 15, 2013 01:10 AM

More information about the IRS scandal. It evidently went on for several years and the IRS harassed 80% of those groups for more than a year and some for more than three years. At this point I think it is fair to say the harassment went on for the approximate duration of Obama's presidency.

Clicky

Quote:

A newly obtained watchdog report described how the "inappropriate" IRS program that flagged conservative groups for extra scrutiny led to massive delays, with some organizations stuck waiting years to find out about their applications.

The findings were contained in a highly anticipated and highly critical inspector general's report, obtained by Fox News, on a practice that IRS officials first acknowledged on Friday.

The report revealed that the program began as far back as 2010. The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration concluded that it was the result of "ineffective management" and "inappropriate criteria" which must be corrected.

Describing the impact of the IRS program, the report said the flawed criteria led to Tea Party and other groups being singled out and subjected to "substantial delays." More than 80 percent of the cases it reviewed were left open more than one year, and some were left in limbo for more than three years.




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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
posted May 15, 2013 03:19 AM

Quote:
A newly obtained watchdog report described how the "inappropriate" IRS program that flagged conservative groups for extra scrutiny led to massive delays


That actually makes perfect sense to me.  A virulent anti-tax philosophy is only a tiny hop away from methodical tax evasion.  They should target these groups for extra scrutiny.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Nerf Herder
posted May 15, 2013 03:37 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 04:05, 15 May 2013.

AFAIK tax evasion isn't a disproportionate issue among conservatives. They're generally a law & order type of people. It just seems like a couple of aggressively opinionated higher ups took advantage of their position to wage war in the way that was available to them. At the very least it's looking like somebody, somewhere in the IRS will be enjoying an express ticket into the unemployment line.
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Elodin
Elodin


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Free Thinker
posted May 16, 2013 04:44 AM

A top IRS official has resigned in wake of the scandal. The Republicans are going to be pressing for jail time, not just job loss of those involved.

Clicky

Quote:

President Obama announced Wednesday that acting IRS Commissioner Steven Miller has resigned in the wake of the agency scandal in which conservative groups were targeted

....

Republicans, who along with Democrats have slammed the IRS for the practice, welcomed the resignation Wednesday but made clear they would continue to investigate and press for accountability.

Rep. Vern Buchanan, R-Fla., said the resignation "is a necessary first step but more heads need to roll."



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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 16, 2013 06:22 AM

Quote:
That actually makes perfect sense to me.  A virulent anti-tax philosophy is only a tiny hop away from methodical tax evasion.  They should target these groups for extra scrutiny.

My friend, if we're not permitted to profile to determine who is a likely terrorist, we sure as snow shouldn't be allowed to profile to see who should be audited by the IRS!
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Elodin
Elodin


Promising
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Free Thinker
posted May 16, 2013 06:32 AM

The impeachment articles for Richard Nixon sound like they could have been written for Obama. Of course we don't know yet if Obama was involved or had any prior knowledge of the IRS abuse of power before the story broke.

Listen to George Wills read a section from Nixon's impeachment articles.

Clicky
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


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Duke of the Glade
posted May 16, 2013 06:46 AM

Elodin, I honestly think that Obama had nothing to do with this... so impeachment is likely not going to happen.

Now if it turns out that he DID have a hand in this, then we very well might see a Nixon-level controversy take place. But, again, not very likely.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted May 17, 2013 02:55 AM

I think saying the scandals are all about Obama being a black man is a bunch of crap. But yeah, anytime someone opposes any of Obama's policies the cries of "racist!!! Racist!!!" go up from the left.

Obama lied to the American people. It is on tape. Other people in his administration lied. And 4 people are dead because of political correctness enforced by the administration (the Benghazi attack.) And his administration scrubbed documents.

Did he know about the IRS debacle too? It has been going on his entire administration and now appears to have been wide spread. Some dems are onboard with the Republicans in calling for investigation. Some are circling the wagon. Rand Paul (Kentucky Senator) introduced a resolution condemning the IRS targeting of conservatives but the democrat controlled Senate has put that on hold.

Then there is the AP scandal.

Continued coverups will only make the problems grow. Hmmmm maybe I should hope the left continues the lies and coverups. They'll just destroy themselves because the truth WILL come out.

I'm sure the dems are going to do their best to protect two people. Liberal Messiah Obama and Hillary Clinton. Clinton will likely be the next democrat candidate for president if she survives Benghazi-gate.

Clicky

Quote:

Paul further expressed disappointment in his Democratic colleagues for placing a hold on his resolution.

“Each senator took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, yet Senate Democrats chose to block my resolution and thus refused to condemn the IRS for trampling on our First Amendment rights. I am incredibly disappointed in Washington’s party politics and I am determined to hold the IRS accountable for these unjust acts.”



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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


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Nerf Herder
posted May 17, 2013 03:03 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 03:15, 17 May 2013.

I have a hard time picturing Obama snickering over the phone, discretely telling IRS heads to target conservative groups for scrutiny. A direct connection to a Benghazi cover-up seems more plausible. Although it's still unseen, it makes more sense in my mind for somebody to do a cover-up on that failure for political protection, especially with the political composition of the nation see-sawing on the edge of a knife as it is.

Also lol @ Fred's post. wtf.
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