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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Kingdom Full Army Strength
Thread: Kingdom Full Army Strength
Nybbas
Nybbas

Tavern Dweller
Flipmode Player
posted June 11, 2013 09:02 PM
Edited by Nybbas at 21:09, 11 Jun 2013.

Kingdom Full Army Strength

Experiment:

1. Each Town was fully upgraded, including Citadel, Castle, and any buildings that increase population (+6 Dwarf Pop, etc.). No external dwellings or Legion artifacts were used.

2. The AI Value used to determine army strength (fleeing, joining, diplomacy, etc.) was used for each creature and multiplied by its population to arrive at a Kingdom Full Army Strength.

Ex. Castle produces 28 Pikeman, who have an AI Value of 80. 28 x 80 = 2240 or the Tier #1 Army Strength for the Castle Town.

Results:

Kingdom Fully Army Strength All Creatures Un-Upgraded
Conflux    - 41, 756
Rampart    - 35, 120
Castle     - 34, 767
Inferno    - 34, 117
Dungeon    - 33, 971
Tower      - 33, 402
Fortress   - 31, 632
Necropolis - 31, 548
Stronghold - 28, 186

Kingdom Full Army Strength All Creatures Upgraded
Conflux    - 58, 694      +17.0k
Rampart    - 49, 768      +14.6k
Castle     - 49, 304      +14.6k
Tower      - 48, 930      +15.5k
Dungeon    - 46, 708      +12.8k
Inferno    - 44, 022      +09.9k
Necropolis - 40, 666      +09.1k
Fortress   - 40, 314      +08.7k
Stronghold - 40, 098      +11.9k

Conclusion:
Without upgrades the towns fall into a range of 31-35k mostly, save for Conflux and Stronghold as the two outliers (13.5k between them).
With upgrades once again a range appears of 44-49k, with Conflux once again much higher and Necropolis, Fortress, and Stronghold below near 40k.

NOTE: Much of Conflux's strength comes from the 2 additional Tier #7 units, with account for 9k and 13k of the town's scores. If this was taken away the town would score 32, 662 and 45, 252. Which would balance it significantly.

An interesting fact I have noticed is that excluding Conflux the upgraded list goes:
Good
Good
Good
Evil
Evil
Evil
Neutral
Neutral

I am interested to hear other people's thoughts on this data. I know that this is in no way conclusive of the age-old "who is the best town" debate.

Cheers!

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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted June 11, 2013 09:26 PM

Have we seen something similar somewhere before? I feel a deja vu.

Anyways, not any real surprises in the list for someone who's played enough. It's still interesting to see how low some castles actually are though. And great to see Tower power-up from upgrades.
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Nybbas
Nybbas

Tavern Dweller
Flipmode Player
posted June 12, 2013 06:05 AM

Tower does have the best upgrade increase in my opinion (I exclude Conflux from most of my conclusions).

I do think this is hard proof that Stronghold and Fortress could've used a slight upgrade. Give the Neutral Towns some LOVE!

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Benny4700
Benny4700


Hired Hero
posted April 19, 2017 04:11 PM

That's pretty interesting, never realised Conflux was so strong, or that Rampart beats out Castle
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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted April 20, 2017 01:21 PM

Stronghold and Fortress have very nice power from Upgrades.

Bulls can take out hundred of Tier 7 units with their Death Stare.

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batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted April 20, 2017 06:16 PM
Edited by batoonike at 18:18, 20 Apr 2017.

Shows pretty nicely that AI values are bogus Stronghold and Necropolis are both great towns but at the bottom. I guess you have to divide all those values with the combined cost of the units and corresponding buildings. Then inferno falls lower probably.

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rafter
rafter

Tavern Dweller
posted April 20, 2017 09:23 PM

These values represent that some towns and races are better than others. The longer become  a game, the weaker become Stronghold and Fortress. The races are not balanced. It is similar in Heroes 2, but I like it.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Famous Hero
posted April 20, 2017 10:00 PM

Stronghold and Fortress will have equal chances in late game. Don't forget that in late game you will own atleast more than starting town so Barbarians/Battle Mages/Beastmasters/Witches will learn 4-5 level spells.

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batoonike
batoonike


Known Hero
posted April 21, 2017 08:18 PM
Edited by batoonike at 20:19, 21 Apr 2017.

The real strength is represented by statistics from games between players. The AI values are just numbers that some guy figured will more-or-less represent the strength of a creature. There's some formula to calculating these but it's very much someones educated guess rather than actual measurement I like your research.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 22, 2017 12:04 AM

Actually, the AI value is some hard-coded value within the internal data tables. They're used by the AI to evaluate creatures (possibly both for what it should recruit as well as what it should attack and with what).
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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