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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Balance Mod
Thread: Balance Mod This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
krs
krs


Famous Hero
posted June 12, 2013 04:29 PM

Balance Mod

I know of this one: linkAre there others? Even if for WoG.

The whole idea is to make yet another balance mod... with a twist.

Imo I think balance mods were not so popular because they tried to overdo-it. (Change too much in way too many places). This way making  uncomfortable a lot of players because of 1-2 changes they really did not like. So the idea is to have a balance mod that tackles only the major issues/unbalances in the game with as few modifications as possible and with good documentation.

The mod will try to fix:

1 - bugs like (air shield bug with towers)
2 - mistakes (badge of courage being treated only as a treasure artifact)
3 - some of the most widespread balance needs. (conflux, necromancy specialty)

The mod will not try to:

- make even all secondary skills,
- make even all heroes
- do micro adjustments (EG: increase attack value of 100 creatures by 1!)

Once I get word of 1-2 more previous attempts I will make a compilation and post it here. Please fell free to comment until then.

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krs
krs


Famous Hero
posted July 10, 2013 03:31 PM
Edited by krs at 11:40, 11 Jul 2013.

No-one knows of other attempts at balancing stuff?

Even suggestions for one specific thing only would help!

For example I remember some tournament? rules to nerf necro and conflux:
- no necro specialists / no necro amplifier
- no upgraded pixies / no upgraded fire-birds

Here the first draft:

MECHANICS
Fix the air shield tower bug

NEUTRAL CREATURES AND BUILDINGS
Increased First Aid Tent hit points from 75 to 100

SPELLS COST & EFFECTS
Raised power of Hypnotize from 25 to 50
Raised Hypnotize Advanced bonus from 20 to 50, expert from 50 to 90

ADVENTURE MAP
Adventure map Stables no longer upgrade cavaliers.

NECROPOLIS
Necromancy Amplifier bonus from 10% to 5%
Isra - Specialty:Isra receives a 3% per level bonus to her Necromancy skill. (Was 5%)
Vidomina - Specialty: Vidomina receives a 3% per level bonus to her Necromancy skill. (Was 5%)

CONFLUX
Magic Lantern - pixes/week from 20 to 15
Firebird/Phoenixes... - should be nerfed somehow... maybe increase growth to 2 only when Pyre is upgraded?

ARTIFACTS
Changed text of badge of courage to display immunity to mind spells
Changed type of badge of courage from Treasure to Major
Increased gold value of badge of courage from 1000 to 8000
Changed type of Necklace of Swiftness from Treasure to Minor
Changed type of Ring of Vitality from Treasure to Minor
Changed type of Necklace of Ocean Guidance from Major to Minor
Decreased gold value of Necklace of Ocean Guidance from 10000 to 3000
Changed type of Garniture of Interference from Major to Minor
Changed type of Sandal of the Saints from Minor to MajorChanged cost of Emblem of Cognizance (+15% Eagle Eye) from 3000 to 2000.
Changed type of Emblem of Cognizance from Minor to Treasure
Changed type of Sack of Gold from Relic to Major
Changed type of Boots of Speed from Minor to Major

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hippox89
hippox89


Famous Hero
posted July 11, 2013 10:45 AM
Edited by hippox89 at 10:55, 11 Jul 2013.

Horn of the Abyss is the best deal, no doubt. It is an mostly original (true to SoD), unoffical expansion, but is also a balance mod with fixes. If they make it so that you can switch off the Cove town addons then you'd have an updated SoD. I dunno what they think of this, though. Pretty sure it would require its own seperate release.

There's also WE, WT, but they don't have full HD support so mechanics like macroing is just awfully slower. Besides, they cut too much out of the game for more casual players for it to be fun, at least, I think.

Also, this thread below is a good option to look into:

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=19321

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krs
krs


Famous Hero
posted July 11, 2013 11:39 AM

Ty for that thread post. I knew there should be already a couple of balance attempts.

Here some more stuff added from that patch.

ARTIFACTS
Changed cost of Emblem of Cognizance (+15% Eagle Eye) from 3000 to 2000.
Changed type of Emblem of Cognizance from Minor to Treasure
Changed type of Sack of Gold from Relic to Major
Changed type of Boots of Speed from Minor to Major

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 07:54 AM

There is my mod. I can upload the files if anyone interested in.

Castle

-1 speed from Archangel

Rampart

+25 cost for dendroids
-5 HP from dendroids
+50 cost for unicorns
-10 HP from war unicorn

Tower

Max damage is 50 for Giant/Titan
Nagas have no constant damage anymore
Decreasing some dwelling costs

Inferno

-10 cost from familiar and Imp
-1 basic growth to Imps/Familiars
+1 basic growth to Gog/Magog
+1 HP to Gog/Magog
-5 cost from Gog/Magog
+1 max damage to Magog
+1 at Magog
+1 At to Imp
-100 cost from Pit Lord
+5 HP to Pit Fiends/Lords
+15 HP to devils, +50 HP to ArchDevils
+1 at to  devil/archDevil -1 Defense to devil/ArchDevilDevil  
-200 gold from devils
Devils have constant damagen (35)
Hellhounds/Cerberi damage is narrowed 3-6

Decreasing some dwelling costs

Necropolis

Skeleton and Warriors HP is 4 and max damage is 2
-1 at from skeletons
-1 at and defense from S.Warriors
-10 gold cost from skeleton and S.Warriors
+4 basit growth skells
+1 at/def  and speed to wight/wraith

Dungeon

-5 cost from Infernal Trog
+1 min damage to Harpy Hag

Stronghold

Cyclops Cave price does not include crystals. Upg. Cyclops Cave price in crystals increased from 0 to 10.

Fortress

-10 HP from gorgons
+5 HP to Vyvern
+15 HP to vyvern monarch

Conflux
-50 HP from Phoenixies and firebirds
-10 min and max damage from phoenix/Firebirds
-2 At/def from firebirds
Firebirds are 200 gold more expensive.
-3 At from phoenix
-2 speed from phoenix
+20 HP to magma
+4 min/max damage to Magma
+3 min/max damage to Energy Ele
+1 min/max damage to Water Ele
-25 gold from Air/Storm Ele
-25 gold from Ice Ele
+1 at/def to magma
Air/storm damage is narrowed
+1 basic growth to air elementals
+1 Max damage to pixie

Every town have constant spells.
Groups;

Inferno---Fire
Fortress-----Water
Necropolis—Earth
Stronghold---Fire/Earth
Dungeon-----Earth/Air
Tower---------Water/Air
Castle---------Water/Earth
Rampart------Earth/Water/Air/Fire
Conflux-------Earth/Water/Air/Fire

LVL 1

Protection from Water----Fortress,Tower,Castle -
Protection from Air--------Inferno,Necropolis,Dungeon,Tower-
Protection from Fire-------Inferno,Stronghold -
Protection from Earth-----Necropolis,Stronghold,Dungeon,Castle -
View Air-----------------------Inferno,Necropolis,Dungeon,Tower  -
View Earth-------------------Fortress,Stronghold,Dungeon -
Summon Boat---------------Castle,Rampart -
Scuttle Boat------------------Castle,Rampart -
Remove Obstacle-----------Rampart,Conflux -
Disguise------------------------Fortress,Tower,Conflux -
Misfortune--------------------Inferno,Stronghold,Conflux -
Fortune------------------------Fortress,Rampart,Conflux -
Magic Mirror-----------------Fortress,Necropolis,Tower,

LVL 2

Quicksand-----------Stronghold,Rampart,Conflux Castle,Necropolis – Dungeon -
Fire Wall-------------Inferno, Stronghold -
Land Mine-----------Inferno, Stronghold -
Visions----------------Inferno, Necropolis,Tower  - Dungeon -
Sorrow----------------Necropolis,Stronghold, Castle  -
Mirth-----------------Fortress,Rampart -
Cure------------------Fortress,Rampart -
Death Ripple-------Necropolis -
Destroy Undead---Tower,Conflux, -
Frost Ring------------Fortress,Tower, Castle  -
Lightining Bolt------Tower,Rampart -Dungeon
Fireball--------------Inferno,Conflux -
Ice Bolt--------------Fortress,Tower, Castle  -
Disrupting Ray----Conflux  -  Dungeon -

LVL 3

Frenzy-----------------Stronghold  -
Curse-------------------Inferno,  -
Stone Skin-----------Necropolis,Dungeon  -
Bloodlust------------Stronghold  -
Dispel----------------Fortress,Conflux  -
Precision-------------Dungeon,Rampart,Conflux  -
Air Shield------------Dungeon,  -
Weakness-----------Fortress,Tower  -
Earthquake---------Necropolis  -
Forgetfulness------Fortress,Rampart -
Force field----------Conflux  -
Hypnotize-----------Tower  -
Anti Magic-----------Necropolis,Tower,Castle -
Water Walk----------Tower,Castle  -
Slayer-------------------Stronghold  -
Sacrifice----------------Inferno  -
Shield-------------------Castle  -
Counterstrike---------Rampart  -
Fire Shield ------------Inferno  -

LVL 4

Armageddon-------Rampart -
Bless -----------------Castle -
Blind----------------Inferno  -
Slow -----------------Dungeon -
Haste ----------------Tower  -
Teleport ------------,Tower  -
Animate Dead -----Necropolis  -
Summon Water ---Rampart -
Summon Air ------- Dungeon  -
Summon Fire ------Inferno  -
Summon Earth ---- Necropolis  -
Meteor Shower ----Conflux -
Chain Lightining----Tower  -
Inferno--------------- Conflux -
Clone ------------------Castle  -

LVL 5

Resurrection --------------Dungeon %100 -
Dimension Door ----------Tower %100 -
Fly ----------------------------Tower %100  -
Town Portal ----------------Conflux %100  -
Berserk ----------------------Inferno %100 -
Implosion -------------------Necropolis %100  -
Prayer ------------------------Rampart %100  -

Knight cannot learn fire/Air
Alchemist cannot learn Fire/Earth
Demoniac cannot learn Air/Earth/Water
Dead Knight cannot learn Air/Water/Fire
Overlord cannot learn Fire/Water
Barbarian cannot learn Water/Air
Beastmaster cannot learn Fire/Earth/Air
Planeswalker cannot learn leadership

-Magic heroes start with total 6 primary skills instead of 5.

-Every town have to play with only their heroes. You  cannot buy any hero from differetn towns.

-Hypnotize and Inferno spells were buffed.

No hero can learn Diplomacy

Spell Costs

Magic Arrow 5 5 5
Shield 10 15 15
Slow   15 30 30
Stone Skin 10 15 15
View Earth 5 5 5
Death Ripple 8 8 8
Quicksand 6 6 6
Visions 4 4 4
Anti Magic 15 15 15
Earthquake 18 18 18
Force Field 10 10 10
Animate Dead 20 20 20
Protection from Earth 8 8 8
Meteor shower 15 15 15
Resurrection 20 20 20
Sorrow 12 12 12
Town Portal 50 50 50
Implosion 30 30 30
Summon Earth 25 25 25
View Air 5 5 5
Haste  10 25 25
Disguise 4 4 4
Disrupting Ray 6 6 6
Lightining Bolt 8 8 8
Fortune 6 6 6
Precision 8 8 8
Protection from Air 6 6 6
Air Shield 8 8 8
Destroy Undead 8 8 8
Chain Lightining 20 20 20
Counterstrike 20 20 20
Dimension Door 40 40 40
Fly 40 40 40
Magic Mirror 8 8 8
Summon Air 25 25 25
Bloodlust 10 10 10
Curse 15 15 15
Protection from fire 6 6 6
Blind 40 30 30
Fireball 10 10 10
Firewall 6 6 6
Land Mine 12 12 12
Misfortune 6 6 6
Armageddon 30 30 30
Fire shield 12 12 12
Berserk 35 35 35
Frenzy 10 10 10
Inferno 18 18 18
Slayer 10 10 10
Sacrifice 15 15 14
Summon Fire 25 25 25
Bless 18 18 18
Cure 12 12 12
Dispel 12 12 12
Protection from Water 4 4 4
Summon Boat 8 8 8
Scuttle Boat 5 5 5
Ice Bolt 6 6 6
Remove Obstacle 5 5 5
Weakness 8 8 8
Forgetfulness 12 12 12
Mirth 12 12 12
Teleport 10 8 8
Clone 20 20 20
Prayer 24 24 24
Summon Water 25 25 25


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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted August 27, 2018 07:59 AM

SoD? HotA? VCMI? or ERA?

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 08:01 AM

It is for SoD.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 27, 2018 12:29 PM

And how you scripted it so we can't find other heroes except natives?

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 03:36 PM

In HCTRAITS; the last 9 coulums show the chances of hero appearing on tavern. I did edit it like these.

      Castle Rampart Tower Inferno Necro Dungeon Stronghold Fort Con
Knight  100      0      0      0       0      0       0        0   0
Cleric  100      0      0      0       0      0       0        0   0
Ranger   0     100      0      0       0      0       0        0   0
------   --      --     --     --      --     --      --       --  --



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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 27, 2018 05:07 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 17:17, 27 Aug 2018.

^^ Interesting idea, but could'nt that potentially mean that you'll will run out of heroes to buy, especially if there are many of the same towns?
Just an idea, but you could also only let good towns hire good heroes, neutral towns hire neutral heroes and evil towns hire evil heroes.

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 06:46 PM
Edited by Otuken at 18:47, 27 Aug 2018.

No matter what kind of towns do you have. For example If you start with Dungeon, you will only be able to hire Overlords and Warlock. If you capture a Castle or Conflux town you will still never be able to hire a Knight/Cleric or Planeswalker/Elementalist.

You'll never run out of heroes to buy because heroes never die. And this mod prevents hirind previosly died great high level heroes for only 2500 gold from different towns. This feature is not fair. Just imagine suddenly lvl 20 Tazar appears on your tavern and you can hire him for only 2500 gold is it really fair even though you hadn't done anything to develop Tazar because you didn't pick Fortress.

When your hero lose a battle. You will just have to wait a few weeks to hire him/her again. Nobody is able to grab yor high skilled hero for only 2500 gold.

Separating heroes into 3 classes will not totally remove randomnesses of heroes. It can be applied but just imagine a fortress player would prefer to start with Bron for to get basilisk but it is very risky because Tazar could be hired by Stronghold or Conflux. This randomness could kill whole of game.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 27, 2018 07:13 PM

What Phoenix means is this: if you have a map with 8 players and 6 of them are Castle, for instance, those Castle players will have only very few Heroes to play with. Given that the pool is only 16 Heroes, those 6 players would have 2 or 3 Heroes at most. The other 2 players in this example would have a lot more.

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 08:59 PM

My aim is removing randomness of hiring hero priorly. If 6 of 8 players are Castle yes it is problematic but they are still able to get more hero from prisons. Also how often players would want to play in such like scenario?
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 27, 2018 09:20 PM

Well, is hard to pronounce so fast on changes, but it baffles me that you prohibit earth magic to fortress. If no other heroes can be hired, that is obviously an enormous burden to carry and I see no extra bonuses except a few HP to wiverns coming to balance that. Or I misunderstood?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 27, 2018 09:51 PM

Well I would never choose a hero/class/town that can't learn Earth Magic, it's simply too important to miss.

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 09:59 PM

Witches can still learn earth magic and magic schools are more balanced. I have been making some stats and ranking towns according to some aspects. You are probably right fortress need more buff.

I do believe that Inferno has to produces overall the strongest troops per week because it has the worst heroes, and one of the worst terrain. Also dwelling are not as cheap as like some towns.

Fortress and Conflux have to produce better troops than Rampart,Dungeon or Stronghold because their heroes are worse than them. At least Conflux starts in grass which is the best native nerrain while swamp is bad. In sum up yes fortress need to be buffed.

Maybe better to give clone spell to fortress, +1 speed to Hydra/Chaos Hydra, increasing the possibility of learning ballista etc.
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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 10:35 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Well I would never choose a hero/class/town that can't learn Earth Magic, it's simply too important to miss.


Wouldn't it be better if every magic schools were almost equally powerful? It is which I have been trying thus learning earth magic would not give unfairly advantage to players.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 27, 2018 10:52 PM

Yes, I have been trying to balance magic schools myself, Earth is far too strong and Fire is far too weak. But in reality it is REALLY hard to balance this aspect of the game. You are welcome to try though.

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 27, 2018 11:47 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Yes, I have been trying to balance magic schools myself, Earth is far too strong and Fire is far too weak. But in reality it is REALLY hard to balance this aspect of the game. You are welcome to try though.


Have you been modding for SoD or HotA? I would prefer modding HotA but I don't know how do I do it.

What is your proposal? How do we balance magic schools?
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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 28, 2018 04:58 PM
Edited by Otuken at 17:00, 28 Aug 2018.

Maybe rearranging of spells like this could bring balance between magic schools.

LVL 1

Magic Arrow----------------- Inferno,Fortress,Necropolis,Stronghold,Dungeon,Tower,Castle,Rampart,conflux 5 4 4 4

Protection from Water----Fortress,Tower,Castle (protection %40/%60/%75/%80) 2 3 4 5

Protection from Air--------Inferno,Necropolis,Dungeon,Tower- (protection %40/%60/%75/%80) 2 3 4 5

Protection from Fire-------Inferno,Stronghold - (protection %40/%60/%75/%80) 2 3 4 5

Protection from Earth-----Necropolis,Stronghold,Dungeon,Castle - (protection %40/%60/%75/%80) 2 3 4 5

View Air-----------------------Inferno,Necropolis,Dungeon,Tower  -2  2 2 2
View Earth-------------------Fortress,Stronghold,Dungeon – 2 2 2 2
Summon Boat---------------Castle,Rampart – 6 6 6 6
Scuttle Boat------------------Castle,Rampart – 4 4 4 4
Remove Obstacle-----------Rampart,Conflux – 5 5 5 5
Disguise------------------------Fortress,Tower,Conflux – 4 4 2 2
Misfortune--------------------Inferno,Stronghold,Conflux – 1 2 3 6 (expert fire reduces 3)
Fortune------------------------Fortress,Rampart,Conflux – 1 2 4 8 (expert air increases 3)
Magic Mirror-----------------Fortress,Necropolis,Tower, 6 6 6 6 (%20%30%40%50)

LVL 2

Quicksand-----------Stronghold,Rampart,Conflux Castle,Necropolis – Dungeon – 6 6 6 6
Fire Wall-------------Inferno, Stronghold – 5 5 5 5 (buffed) Damage is (10+ Spell Power*20) (instead of *10)
Land Mine-----------Inferno, Stronghold – 8 8 8 8 (buffed) Damage isPower x 20 (instead of x 10)
Visions----------------Inferno, Necropolis,Tower  - Dungeon -5 4 3 2
Sorrow----------------Necropolis,Stronghold, Castle  - 2 2 4 10
Mirth-----------------Fortress,Rampart -2 2 4 10
Cure------------------Fortress,Rampart -3 4 6 12
Death Ripple-------Necropolis – 15 14 13 12 the same power with destroy undead
Destroy Undead---Tower,Conflux, - 15 14 13 12
Frost Ring------------Fortress,Tower, Castle  - 11 10 9 8
Lightining Bolt------Tower,Rampart –Dungeon 10 9 8 7
Fireball--------------Inferno,Conflux – 11 10 9 8
Ice Bolt--------------Fortress,Tower, Castle  - 8 7 6 5
Disrupting Ray----Conflux  -  Dungeon – 6 6 6 6


LVL 3


Frenzy-----------------Stronghold  - 15 14 13 12 (increases attack %100/%150/%200/%250
Curse-------------------Inferno,  - 2 3 4 10
Stone Skin-----------Necropolis,Dungeon  -2 3 4 8
Bloodlust------------Stronghold  - 2 3 4 8
Dispel----------------Fortress,Conflux  - 4 5 6 15
Precision-------------Dungeon,Rampart,Conflux  - 9 8 7 6
Air Shield------------Dungeon,  - 12 11 10 9
Weakness-----------Fortress,Tower  - 2 3 4 8
Earthquake---------Necropolis  - 18 17 16 15
Forgetfulness------Fortress,Rampart -10 10 10 10
Force field----------Conflux  - 11 10 9 8
Hypnotize-----------Tower  - 15 15 10 10 buffed 10 + (power x 35) instead of 25
Anti Magic-----------Necropolis,Tower,Castle – 15 14 13 12
Water Walk----------Tower,Castle  -10 10 10 10
Slayer-------------------Stronghold  -  4 6 8 10     buffed (8/12/16/20)
Sacrifice----------------Inferno  - 18 16 14 12
Shield-------------------Castle  - 2 3 4 12
Counterstrike---------Rampart  - 3 4 5 15
Fire Shield ------------Inferno  - 6 6 9 12 buffed (%30/%30/%45/%60)

LVL 4

Armageddon-------Rampart 25 25 20 20-  reduced from 50*SP + 30/30/60/120 to 40*SP + 30/30/60/120.
Bless -----------------Castle – 3 4 5 12
Blind----------------Inferno  -15 15 10 10 basic effect (2 times stronger than hypno)
Slow -----------------Dungeon – 3 4 5 15    decreased (%20/%20/%40/%40)
Haste ----------------Tower  - 3 4 5  15 decreased (3/3/4/4)
Teleport ------------,Tower  - 8 8 8 8
Animate Dead -----Necropolis  - 15 14 13 12
Summon Water ---Rampart – 20 20 20 20
Summon Air ------- Dungeon  -20 20 20 20
Summon Fire ------Inferno  -20 20 20 20
Summon Earth ---- Necropolis  -20 20 20 20
Meteor Shower ----Conflux – 15 14 13 12
Chain Lightining----Tower  - 20 20 20 20
Inferno--------------- Conflux – buffed power x 20 instead of 10
Clone ------------------Castle  -20 20 20 20

LVL 5
Resurrection --------------Dungeon %100 – 18 17 16 15
Dimension Door ----------Tower %100 –40 40 40 40
Fly ----------------------------Tower %100  - 30 30 30 30
Town Portal ----------------Conflux %100  -50 50 50 75
Berserk ----------------------Inferno %100 – 30 30 30 30
Implosion -------------------Necropolis %100  -40 40 40 40
Prayer ------------------------Rampart %100  -   10  10 10 30

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