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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Were Conflux and Necropolis over nerfed in HotA?
Thread: Were Conflux and Necropolis over nerfed in HotA? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 01:28 AM

Were Conflux and Necropolis over nerfed in HotA?

What do you think about this subject? I think halving of Necromancy was really necessary but it would be better if some Necropolis creatures were slighly buffed.

Conflux is really ridiciously over nerfed. The worst town in HotA. This town was strong in the original game but they really rely on cheap magic elementals double growth phoenixies. Because elementals are reall sucks. They are too expensive and weak.
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2018 07:11 AM

HOTA's "balance" is an anecdote.
Why do you still play it?

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Revolut1oN
Revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 08:35 AM

Both are still very strong towns.

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Revolut1oN
Revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 08:38 AM

Also double post for attention - warn the guy above please. Im tired of constant trolling and attacks towards hota in his every post.

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2018 12:08 PM

Revolut1oN said:
Also double post for attention - warn the guy above please. Im tired of constant trolling and attacks towards hota in his every post.


If you are tired of something, go on vacantion. There we not praise, but discuss it.

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 12:32 PM
Edited by revolut1oN at 12:34, 23 Aug 2018.

You are not using any argument, just spitting venom around. You are a toxic person and I do not wish to read your nonsense in each post. This is a very friendly community and your hatred is not in place here, go somewhere else.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted August 23, 2018 12:50 PM

Conflux feels overnerfed and very bland. Necro doesn't seem very popular judging by people's comments on the most popular competitive maps (Jeebus).


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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 23, 2018 01:12 PM

Macron1 and Revolut1on, let's not escalate this.

When posting, keep in mind that if you have nothing positive to contribute, you need to wonder if you should post it at all.
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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted August 23, 2018 03:18 PM

Necropolis is the weakest level, it replaces the legion skeletons in 2 months. All 3D0 maps you get a legion skeletons. Shame if you haven't got a legion in 2 months, and you claim that a strong team. JVC taught us how to use skeletons in RoE campaign by easy map, and then you learn/try in RoE scenarios. You are dead when pro players gets legion. Easy (Necropolis) team. But we need Gal back. And more sulfur to lich

Conflux is also innocent team, their armies are large, because of non-living creatures can't get a resurrection, and they haven't armageddon before protection from fire has casted, but phoenix is a weak statistics, so first you destroy/kill phoenixes, and then other. Catherine got know and she went looking for a father murderer etc we need one firebird/phoenix back. So Conflux vs Necropolis! I created Homecoming to Erathia in WoG map in a long time ago, a old map, I gave 1 speed to earth/magma/mineral elemental, because of H4 statistics. Black dragon gets 7 speed, etc Later on you can play.. So Conflux is good choice in Homecoming to Erathia.

But I play RoE (AI's creature grows legion), SoD (artifacts, monsters, etc), WoG (awesome), and HotA (ERA, satyr, sea objects, etc), all them I love HoMM

Don't play RoE, AB and SoD maps in HotA! HotA maps you can play in HotA.
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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 04:19 PM

Is there any way to win with Conflux or Necropolis in PvP HotA? I always pick Isra for Necropolis as starting hero then I get liches in round 2. Their AoE atack is very helful despite having only 3 liches.

But Conflux has no any unupgraded shooter even though their shooters are sucks. Marksmans and elves have double strikes, magog and liches have AoE, Evil Eye, Medusa and Magi have no melee penalty but Conflux shooters have nothing like these. They have spell vulnerabilities instead of these kind of abilities despite being very expensive. It proves that how bad the shooters of Conflux. Their guard troops are also bad. Fire and Earth elementals are just garbage.

Also their 7.th level unit's dwelling require 30.000 gold 30 mercury in spite of being the weakest 7.th level unit.


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verynice
verynice


Hired Hero
posted August 23, 2018 05:35 PM

Conflux feels weak and expensive.

The Magic Guild and University requirement for Sprites pretty much removed them from the game.

Storm and Ice Elementals should honestly have their originally intended no melee penalty back. They are very expensive but still mediocre shooters.

Energy and Magma Elementals feel like pointless gold sinks that only the bots use.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2018 10:25 PM

I know that so-called (and maybe the real) pros will attack me saying that I can't play, I can't think and whatnot. But I'll still say what I've been crying about on every HOMM related topic on the internet I could find, just to be consistent... and also because I still believe this to be true. So...

I have no idea what HotA is (actually, I think it's an update or DLC or something), so I've never played it. BUT, I have played hotseat games weekly with my friend around 2001-2002 (at least 2-3 games a week if I remember correctly), and one of my favorite towns has always been (and still is)... Conflux. I mean, for God's sake, even my username is monere xD

Anyway... in hotseat games, even though my friend was SLIGHTLY better than me and we've been both newbies back then he would beat me badly when I'd play Conflux, and I'd play it often, because... well, because it was one of my favorite towns.

Now, the way we were playing was (obviously) the newbie-style: generate random XL map + underground and do nothing for 10-11 months other than clear the entire map first, build your castles, and then come month 12 sort your army (based on whatever towns you have had the luck to find) and then meet somewhere on neutral ground and fight.

His favorite towns have always been Castle / Necro / Dungeon (occasionally he'd play with Stronghold / Tower as starting towns), and my favorite towns have always been Rampart / Conflux / Fortress (I'd occasionally play Tower / Stronghold / Inferno, too).

Well, since his favorite towns have always been the 2 most cheating towns (as I deemed them personally because of the strong-ass Archangels and the cheating 30% necromancy skills that would rape me in month 12) it was pretty obvious that he'd defeat me when I played Conflux, because in month 12 and with so many towns available to me I would most definitely NOT take Conflux' strongest creatures (air & water elementals) with me in the battle because, even though they are indeed strong for their level, they would still count ZERO against 200-300 Archangels or 20-30k skeletons. So, I'd have to replace those strong creatures with higher tier creatures from the other towns I'd find on the map.

Well, since Conflux' carry army is supposed to be tier 6 and 7 creatures (so, the MEs and Phoenixes) in the type of battle we would do (month 12 battle), and since they would fall so easily (both of them are squishy in late game, and with orb of vulnerability on my friend's hero) it was obvious I would lose most of the time when I played Conflux. So... maybe I wasn't playing like a pro, my friend neither, but we were having fun and that's all that matters when you're playing multiplayer games. So anyway, based on my numerous and personal experiences I conclude that Conflux has ALWAYS been a weak town, despite of what anyone might tell me. If any of you on this forum - which I agree that you are better than me - show me duels against real pros where you manage to defeat their Castle / Necropolis army in month 12 using Conflux army like 5-6 times out of 10 games I will consider that Conflux is indeed a strong town and that I don't know what I'm talking about. Until then, sorry, but I'll stick to my point

Now, with the WoG patch / DLC / whatever the hell that is things are different, because the MEs are nasty as hell on monere in WoG. So, we will leave WoG out of discussion. The discussion was about the SoD version I assume, and in that version Conflux IS weak, like I've explained. Now, on to Necropolis

...

Necropolis... never been a fan of them (I hate cheapass towns that take no skill to play, and whatever you'll tell me I'll still say boldly that getting necromancy level 3 and fighting everything and everyone on the map to raise skellies takes ZERO skill).

Anyway, before I digress completely (I get triggered BADLY when I lose to cheat towns and armies) I think that reducing Necromancy to 15% is the BEST thing to have happened to Necro from a balancing point of view. Also, I would also give the dragons some more stats (maybe a +5 ATT and DEF, +5 min and max damage, and maybe 20-30 more HPs) at the expense of lowering the cooldown on Aging to maybe 10-12%.

All other Necro creatures are pretty balanced, even the skeletons are OK the way they are now that Necro has been reduced to 15% (in which version I have no idea, but I applaud the decision to balance that pos town better later than never)


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted August 23, 2018 10:40 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 22:43, 23 Aug 2018.

Necropolis and Conflux were definitely the two strongest towns in original game, mainly because of skeleton legions (or even lich legions!) and cheap double produced Phoenixes.
In HotA the towns are probably average, Conflux maybe even one of the worst towns.
Necro feels pretty balanced with Necromancy now, though I did change necromancy artifacts back to their original percentages, for them to still have some value. (But Cloak Of The Undead King only makes Skeleton Warriors.)
Conflux feels VERY expensive in HotA, elementals can't be resurrected and take double damage from certain spells. Also Sprites became too hard to build. So Conflux might be "over-nerfed."

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 11:07 PM

You will most likely not be able to beat  Castle / Necropolis armies by using only Conflux troops because your army strenght will always be weaker than them. Air and Ice elementals are below-average units, Energy and Magma elemestals are just garbage therefore Conflux is really rely on Magic elementals and Phoenixies but Castle and Necro have much more varieties. Since you have Phoenixies and you will be able to use your speed advantage. Learning tactic skill and casting mass haste will definitely work but I suggest you to buy another creatures from different castles instead of purchasing elementals because they are sucks besides Magic ele. It is also so good if your opponent has orb of vulnerability thus your magic elementals will be able to benefit mass haste.

You can definitely beat Castle with Conflux since your dwellings are cheaper and you have more gold bringer heroes. Better to get Fire birds asap and taking up other creatures from other towns.

Buying elementals could work against necro because necro abilities do not work againt elementals. But it is still very hard task because necromancy is overpowered in X/XL maps.
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2018 11:19 PM

Exactly my point: you can't beat Castle / Necro in late game on XL maps with Conflux, therefore Conflux is weak. This logic could be considered simplistic and untrue if this didn't happen to me many times before. But, since it's happened...

Also, I disagree that level 2 and 3 creatures are weak. They have the best damage and HPs of all tier 2 and 3 creatures in the game (ok, iron golems have more HPs than the ice elementals, but that's an exception). Don't know why people keep invoking Conflux creatures' spell vulnerability because you rarely use offensive magic against Conflux. Actually, you rarely use offensive magic against anyone. Mass slow / haste / bless + the usual blind / clone / berserk are always the game winners in late game battles. I have tried many times to cast the 14-15k damage implosion on enemy creatures but I always realized that I'd be better off casting a tactical spell that affects ALL of opponent's creatures rathen than cast implosion and kill 10-20 tier 7 creatures. But then again, I'm only speaking of my OWN experiences where I'd usually fight in month 12 against 300+ tier 7 creatures, so not sure how much better implosion (or offensive spells anyway) would be in early game to justify casting on storm / ice elementals.

Still, storm / ice elementals are NOT weak, I really don't know what you're talking about. Just cast mass bless on them and see what I mean. The other elementals are garbage indeed, I agree on this one


Otuken said:
You will most likely not be able to beat  Castle / Necropolis armies by using only Conflux troops because your army strenght will always be weaker than them. Air and Ice elementals are below-average units, Energy and Magma elemestals are just garbage therefore Conflux is really rely on Magic elementals and Phoenixies but Castle and Necro have much more varieties. Since you have Phoenixies and you will be able to use your speed advantage. Learning tactic skill and casting mass haste will definitely work but I suggest you to buy another creatures from different castles instead of purchasing elementals because they are sucks besides Magic ele. It is also so good if your opponent has orb of vulnerability thus your magic elementals will be able to benefit mass haste.

You can definitely beat Castle with Conflux since your dwellings are cheaper and you have more gold bringer heroes. Better to get Fire birds asap and taking up other creatures from other towns.

Buying elementals could work against necro because necro abilities do not work againt elementals. But it is still very hard task because necromancy is overpowered in X/XL maps.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 11:39 PM

Other town, other strategies... with some towns you can't win in long games. Some are predestined to rush your enemy down. I for myself can't really play Inferno, it's simply not my type of gameplay

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Otuken
Otuken


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 11:41 PM

Air and Ice elementals are not very cost efficient. Also being vulnerable to Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning is very big disadvantage. They have no area attack ability, no enemy retaliation or double shoot like other shooters. Two marksman will always be better than one air elementals in clearing maps. In full scale battles probably air elementals will not be always priority target but enemy heroes can easily hit air elementalst by casting lightining bolt than run out from battles. Air elemental is not a bad unit at least more cost effecient than other elementals besides Magic elementals.

Conflux is really good town. It has 3 very cost effecient strong units (Sprite,Magic Ele, Phoenix) other units are not as good as like these like Necro (3 great unit and 3 garbage)
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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2018 11:50 PM

P4R4D0X0N said:
Other town, other strategies... with some towns you can't win in long games. Some are predestined to rush your enemy down. I for myself can't really play Inferno, it's simply not my type of gameplay


I think Inferno is the most underplayed town in Heroes 3 and its subsequent versions.

I can't play Inferno, either, but I used to pick it because I like the sultans and the archdevils. I literally like how they look

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 23, 2018 11:50 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 23:51, 23 Aug 2018.

For my personal taste I would love necro amplifier to be reverted back to 10%, rest is fine. I personally see conflux to be one of the towns that will be very strong after the magic balance update in HotA. The Academy is expensive you you never get any problems with "perfect skilled" characters anymore.

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monere
monere


Supreme Hero
posted August 23, 2018 11:57 PM

You keep addressing various aspects of the gameplay (cost efficiency, tactics, etc.) and you might be right, but in the scenarios that I play in Conflux is weak. I never cared about cost efficiency because in month 12 I usually had more money than I could spend, I also never worried about chain lightning and other offensive spells because - like I've said - when you own so many top tier creatures offensive magic just doesn't matter. It's much better to cast tactical spells (mass bless / slow / haste, blind, etc.) so in those scenarios Conflux is a weak town. Let's agree to disagree

Otuken said:
Air and Ice elementals are not very cost efficient. Also being vulnerable to Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning is very big disadvantage. They have no area attack ability, no enemy retaliation or double shoot like other shooters. Two marksman will always be better than one air elementals in clearing maps. In full scale battles probably air elementals will not be always priority target but enemy heroes can easily hit air elementalst by casting lightining bolt than run out from battles. Air elemental is not a bad unit at least more cost effecient than other elementals besides Magic elementals.

Conflux is really good town. It has 3 very cost effecient strong units (Sprite,Magic Ele, Phoenix) other units are not as good as like these like Necro (3 great unit and 3 garbage)

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