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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: I have a CONFESSION to make
Thread: I have a CONFESSION to make This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 01, 2013 01:16 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 15:27, 01 Jul 2013.

I have a confession to make

I've been playing this game since before AB came out...
And I've been editing scenarios to get advantage since then (in player versus computer games, never played against other pleople).

So, when I discovered WoG, just about a year ago, I was convinced I knew all about this game and I fooled myself with the ideia that WoG was letting me evolve to another level of strategical skill playing.

After try some maps against Faster AI and read that Salamandre (who plays the game for exactly the same years I do, by the way) was able to defect all faction leaders of TDS in less that 4 weeks when that tooked me 7 weeks and I had really made a lot of editing, I must conclued that I simply suck at this game and I'm probably to old to learn.

When I look at Wog I still see a inovative way of cheating, so...

My most recent plan for cheating is a bit complex:

I want to turn Dungeon into a city of Gladiators with the characters from Spartacus series as Heroes...

The basic ideia is this

Gladiators are basicly very weak, with very low stats and so very cheap.
Unupgraded creatures will have habilities like "extra amo" or none, while upgraded creatures will have the MOST INCREDIBLE set of habilities you can imagine.
All Gladiator Heroes will be hable to upgrade unupgraded creatures from other towns to the same level of upgraded gladiators (or all creatures in heroes army turn to upgraded gladiators of the same level, I like this one much less but it is a lot easy to implement cause is already done all over)

And I want to CREATE A NEW SKILL (I not sure it is possible or what to do with the heroes who already got scouting if I will have to turn scouting in to it), that is set in a way that all gladiators have it and no other class of heroes has it or can learn it from nowhere expect by visiting a witch hut that will substitute the object that gives 1000 of experience, inside a Dungeon.

This skill will be a set of parameters for which gladiator heroes increase all gladiator creatures stats and effectiviness of his special habilities.

So, when game starts you will be present with a dialog that goes from:

Achor - wants to be a gladiator but is not particularly gifted...

to

Gannicus - can win blindfold
Spartacus - kill them all!!!
Onomaeus - can make a gladiator from any gifted peasant.

Some heroes and heroes specialities (sorry... Gannicus, Spartacus and Onomaeus) will not be available if you dont choose the respective levels or above.

I dont plan to play above Gannicus, if this says something.

So, create amazing creatures with special habilities that are a turn off is not to dificult, just a few lines of code I can copy from almost any where...

But I don't have the slitest ideia of how to import the pictures, to wich format to save them and so on.

Same for creature definition.
Does someone ever tried to recreate those characthers? (retiarius, trax and dimachaerus, particularly...)

I have pictures from other mods like Vallex portraits and some creature definitions that with a little bit of editing (if I knew how...) will do the trick until I've found something better, so I can start immediatly with creature definition.

No other Dungeons will be allowed on the map but Geditte's new specialty will be unchanged.

Dungeon will have no level one creatures, level one creature will be a ramdomized but very large and increasing with time number of peasants you will be able to recruit from the Portal: these are your trainnies, to become gladiators you must find ways of upgrading them being the easy way to use Onomaeus hability to upgrade level 10 peasants to any kind of gladiators and the hardest to use the Pendant of Free Will to turn them to Rogues next week for then to be hable to simply upgrade them to your upgraded level two creatures.
All level 8 dwellings own by the player will act increase the growth of dimachaerus (your 8) in every Dungeon by one, but you can buy them all allover and dimachaerus will not have a proper dwelling.

All heroes 'real' speciallity will be a significant one like Offense, Armorer, 2 speed, logistics, etc... but they will have others like

Gannicus (is the one I'm must sure...) 'all gladiators get immunnity to blind, frenzzin, 30% block + 2 per hero level, attack twice, attack all around, fly, charge and dispels.

Heroes start with a prims inversion so they evolve smothly (overlord - 1, 1, 2, 2; warlock - 2, 2, 1, 1,

Has I said I cheat (and I dont think I'm ready to go into 'recovery'...) so this will be a CHEATERS MOD and I'm very sure about a couple of things, for instance second henchmen will be allways available and I will try sometime to recreate first henchmen so they can actualize the habilities of the creature he's based on and maybe get some for themselves...

Both Palace of Dreams and a weekly visit emerald tower (with another name and on another object) will be available and
I'm tring to create a kind of Adventure Cave (another name and object) where your heroes can fight powerfull creatures for the chance of an upgrade to a creature in their armys.
Test will be for level of the hero, so he will be hable to use it again and again in the same day but not for long.
Battles will become harder and rewards will have a better percentage of success, as they pass from attack and defense to 'no retaliation', 'attack twice' and 'attack all around' to 'shoots close', 'no fear', 'reduces defense', 'attack and return', 'endless retaliations', blind and so. Azures for Imunnity 5.
With this tool, that will only be available at the hier options, you will be hable to ennance "big boy's army" while you are trainning a sitting hero for your fifth town... And get all kind of atonishing combinations of special habilities.

Other ideias I would like to implement are...
- resource silo upgrade;
- a spell book for commanders, with several spells and levels of sorcery requirements to learn them;
- a "School of forgotten skills" for Learning, Logistics, Estates and so on (Gladiator's skill will still be forgotten...)

Import:
- mithril mine;
- dialog for creature growth;
- creatures get help in battles;
- neutral creatures can get habilities;
- experience bug fix;
- and of course Second Henchmen
from TDS;

Think that my level 2 creature had something like 3 attack and defense, 6 health, 4 damage, 5 speed and as parameters are very low can cost something like 60 coins. So if you choose Axor, Gladiator secondary skill increased parameters by 20%, 40% and 60%, if you choose Onomaues by 250%, 500%, 1000%.
This gives you an ideia of how the mod works...

I have other ideas, namely to heroes and creature habilities but this is not a confession anymore, it's a project.

Of course, I will need a lot of help cause I'm a total begginner at this modding stuff but I also need some feedback to the idea (please be a little more creative them "You should simply learn to play" or "The mod is insanily ambalanced", that I allready know...)

If there is a really great player who can help me I would like to extented the invitation I made to Salamandre: can we discuss the parameters, cost and habilities available for creatures at levels where you may want to play and I don't?

Another idea I think can be accomplished is to present another set of options for AI oponents
- all enemie heroes start will logistigs, 8 to each prim and 8 level 8 creatures, for instance.


Thank you for your time,

Francisco
BloodSucker




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Kivo
Kivo


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2013 02:59 PM

The problem is having ideas is nothing when you cannot implement them. Anyone can have ideas, 2-3 years ago I had ton of ideas which I could only dream about, now for TSW mod, I fairly know what can be done. Just stating ideas is useless, because you cannot just simply use someone to do absolutely everything for you as you wish. I saw many people just stating an idea with no examples of actual work, where now their threads are lost somewhere in the forum.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 01, 2013 03:41 PM

Almost all your ideas need erm knowledge, not much but still. A good way to start your journey in is to look in universal scripts from data folder, make backup or special mod then start to play with values and compare results in game. There are some who change heroes specialties, creatures abilities and more. Without erm you can do nothing.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 01, 2013 03:54 PM

Touché

Quote:
The problem is having ideas is nothing when you cannot implement them. Anyone can have ideas, 2-3 years ago I had ton of ideas which I could only dream about, now for TSW mod, I fairly know what can be done. Just stating ideas is useless, because you cannot just simply use someone to do absolutely everything for you as you wish. I saw many people just stating an idea with no examples of actual work, where now their threads are lost somewhere in the forum.



Touché, I believe I allready have one or two of those.

That's why I started to put some ideas on paper and looked for help. But I must have done something wrong allready cause you are the first person who comment and the comment is at the most a construtive critic to my personality, capabilities and ambicions.

But accepting your idea I will start posting here any code for independent objects (its from where I'm starting) I'm able to finish and test.  

Looks better?

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted July 01, 2013 04:16 PM

@BloodSucker,
You can start by reading the ERM Help document,there is everything you need in order to script.
You can also read pages from ERM Help and discussion thread to see if any of your ideas is covered already there.
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 01, 2013 05:20 PM

Do you have graphics for gladiators?
I saw only 3-4 gladiator DEFs

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Kivo
Kivo


Famous Hero
posted July 01, 2013 06:22 PM

Quote:
Quote:
The problem is having ideas is nothing when you cannot implement them. Anyone can have ideas, 2-3 years ago I had ton of ideas which I could only dream about, now for TSW mod, I fairly know what can be done. Just stating ideas is useless, because you cannot just simply use someone to do absolutely everything for you as you wish. I saw many people just stating an idea with no examples of actual work, where now their threads are lost somewhere in the forum.



Touché, I believe I allready have one or two of those.

That's why I started to put some ideas on paper and looked for help. But I must have done something wrong allready cause you are the first person who comment and the comment is at the most a construtive critic to my personality, capabilities and ambicions.

But accepting your idea I will start posting here any code for independent objects (its from where I'm starting) I'm able to finish and test.  

Looks better?


Im not complaining. I just saw so many threads like this , so its best for you to start learning erm, say what you can already do, show what you have done already ( very important ) and then Im more confident that someone will help you.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 01, 2013 07:26 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 20:25, 01 Jul 2013.

Pictures of gladiators

Quote:
Do you have graphics for gladiators?
I saw only 3-4 gladiator DEFs


No I don't I was thinking of merging the mermaid with the satir from 4 to make the retiarius like I saw somewhere but if I use that opition the net will be a weak point, cause I was planing something for the 'trow net' hability to trun enemys to stone for 3 turns and none of them trows something with the left hand.

For Thraex, Hoplomachus and Murmillo I found some images in the Russian forum that will do the trick with some editing.

Unfortunately I don't have the sliestest idea of where to find the Dimachaerus. All two swords human fighters I found look to much like improved peasants to be level 8, maybe to fast on reving Onomaeus training...
Maybe I could try something with H4 titans (no swords, looks fat) or Arcangels (take wings put an helmet, redesign breast and right arm, I think it would look better.
But Arcangels are to important to the game to have a poor copy of themselfs as enemie...

I not so sure about some levels cause I wanted to have Equites or other kind of light cavalry but to make justice more to the characters of the serie that to history, they sould have the elves from H4 as galatrixes or other historicaly inexact figure.

And I'm all on the human figures for gladiators but maybe I should also think about putting some beasts, at least lions even if I like bulls much better.

And first I was thinking of use the pendant of life like this: Spartacus always starts with it and as you recive the sprites you got this message "Seduced by your revolutionary spech some promiscous group follwers have join your army."
But now I'm more inclined to create another creature maybe with the sprites themselves, maybe with the sprites from 4 or one of the beauties from 5 and put the event on HE() from Spartacus saying "Seduced by your revolutionary spech some promiscous group follwers have join your army. You and your men take a few hours rest (take 200 movement, not much) and everybodys moral raises"+ 2 to moral...





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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 01, 2013 08:19 PM



Rome RTW, gladiators have all animations. You need 3DS max.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 01, 2013 08:28 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:46, 02 Jul 2013.

You need 3DS max.



Thank you.

So I think alignment could be like this

1. Group-followers (cant be recruited at any town, depend on Spartacus habilitie) / peasants -> recruits

2. (first dwelling on town and so on) Samnites - no halilities, deflect

3. Hoplomachus - piercing attack/dragon breath, (not damaging other allyed troops), deflect

4. Freedom Fighters (the elf girls) - two shots, no penaltys, precision, 'abused female's fury' - expert frennzin and two attacks in close combat, casted when changing from range attack to mellee attack.

5. Retiarius - 'trow net' (paralise enemie unit for 3 turns), can attack from a square distance avoiding retaliation, expect when to near like pikemen on 4. If realize how, has a chance block enemies a square away from him but not if they are allready at the next square. Allmost doesn't have defense. Fast.

6. Murmillo - deflect and block, no retaliation, high defense/low speed. Only two squares creature.

7. Traex - with axe, not curved sword. Reduces defense, deflect.

8. Dimachaerus - immune to blind, freenzin, attack all around, two attacks, charge, dispels (from the same Gannicus fight as immune to blind, what the hell was that to Tullius trap if not dispel magic?)


I was thinking (and this one I haven't a clue about what I would need) that Spartacus speciality should be "Revolutionary Spech".
Makes 25% percent of enemie troops (even enemies heroes armys) to desert to your faction. In the dialog will be an 'hill fort' saying "You provide a quick train and your recruits are ready for battle", letting you to upgrade them to gladiators.
As you can only upgrade and Dimachaerus are the weaker of all 8 you can't upgrade level 8 troops, but you can choose a button to switch to an altar of sacrifice or some shortcut to this, with this message "You have spoted some spys betwen the new comers. You imediatly had them hunged." And I would like a % of the experience to achive the henchmen...

Tell me what you think? Can be done? Because I think it makes sense in the story.




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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 01, 2013 09:23 PM

[quote
Tell me what you think? Can be done? Because I think it makes sense in the story.


I think it's very cheating ability.
In VCMI it's unlikely possible.
On ERA - depends of your programming skills.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 02, 2013 12:01 AM


I think it's very cheating ability.


Do you think it's stronger then Onomaeus hability to train tons of level 10 peasants to any level of Gladiators?

Because I wanted the oposite... maybe if numbers are fewer, like 15%?

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 02, 2013 06:55 AM

Quote:

I think it's very cheating ability.


Do you think it's stronger then Onomaeus hability to train tons of level 10 peasants to any level of Gladiators?

Because I wanted the oposite... maybe if numbers are fewer, like 15%?

Basic - 5%
Adv. - 10%
Expert 15%

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 02, 2013 10:38 AM

Quote:
Quote:

I think it's very cheating ability.


Do you think it's stronger then Onomaeus hability to train tons of level 10 peasants to any level of Gladiators?

Because I wanted the oposite... maybe if numbers are fewer, like 15%?

Basic - 5%
Adv. - 10%
Expert 15%



That's a lot less then a tradicional succubus... Do you think the hability to train/sacrifice newcomers is so strong that even the succubus hability as to be shortned?

Because I think in that if it is so strong (and I'm unhable to predict that without try it in game, something that will not be possible within the next months) maybe the easy way is to simply give him a succubus, the 'Hill Fort' and the 'altar of sacrifice'.

As the succubus hability doesn't work on enemie heroes much of the advantage is lost while I don't have a clue about why/how to divide heroes hability into Bs/Ad/Exp.

For me, something like "Start with x%, gains x% over inicial bonus for each level, until reach x% total" looks more doable.

If you want, substitute the Xs and I will accept your numbers as good at least until this unstarted project as a testable mod.

Thank you,
Francisco

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 02, 2013 12:00 PM

Creature Defs

Can some please explain me something?

I have found several descripitons of how to make the pictures you see in the army and in combat but when you defect a neutral army there is a picture of the face of the creature like the heroes picture.

How does that work?

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 02, 2013 12:32 PM

Quote:
Can some please explain me something?

I have found several descripitons of how to make the pictures you see in the army and in combat but when you defect a neutral army there is a picture of the face of the creature like the heroes picture.

How does that work?

Don't understand you. Can you show screenshot, what you mean?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 02, 2013 01:06 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Can some please explain me something?

I have found several descripitons of how to make the pictures you see in the army and in combat but when you defect a neutral army there is a picture of the face of the creature like the heroes picture.

How does that work?

Don't understand you. Can you show screenshot, what you mean?




After a battle you have a dialog with stats

winner -> photo of creature/hero

loser -> photo of creature/hero

winner - > casualites - photos of creatures.

loser - > casualites - photos of creatures.

This are not the same files used to create a creature def, right?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 02, 2013 05:40 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 18:08, 02 Jul 2013.

Abused Female's Fury

I know I'm pushing on luck but if someone incidentally finds a wav file where there is a woman's voice cring "It was him!!!" I would like to have it...

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 02, 2013 06:07 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 18:43, 02 Jul 2013.

Enchanters Subtipe

Does someone knows how the Sharpshooters subtipes where created?

I'm thinking that a god way to make atonishing creatures could be to subtipe the great spellcasters, change the subtype faction to Dungeon and then completely change their stats and habilities.


So Dimachaerus would be based on Enchanters, Murmillos on Master Genies and Freedom Fighters (this definetively will not be their name...) on Archangels (with spellpower reduced so they would had to be really a lot to have an impact on later battles but would give a very powerfull head-start early game).

I looked in Jim Vogan's help and it looks like the creature numbers are allmost all used, is that so? Why? They can only be subtyped hard-coded?

In that case are the commander figures needed in the game (somehow to being hable to represent the commanders in battle) or I can use those numbers? Because I don't remember them early in some 3.58...


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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 02, 2013 07:20 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Can some please explain me something?

I have found several descripitons of how to make the pictures you see in the army and in combat but when you defect a neutral army there is a picture of the face of the creature like the heroes picture.

How does that work?

Don't understand you. Can you show screenshot, what you mean?




After a battle you have a dialog with stats

winner -> photo of creature/hero

loser -> photo of creature/hero

winner - > casualites - photos of creatures.

loser - > casualites - photos of creatures.

This are not the same files used to create a creature def, right?

So you mean creatures icons?
For each creature there must be 58X64 big icon, 32X32 small icon.
In ERA/WOG all creature icons are compressed into 2 DEFS:
twcrport.def - big icons
cprsmall.def - small icons

There is also same file with map attack of creatures animation. I don't remember it, in VCMI it's not needed.

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