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| Thread: Realms of Might and Magic |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 28, 2013 03:55 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 20:07, 30 Aug 2013.
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Realms of Might and Magic
Hey People, what is planned to be presented in this thread is the idea for a Game that merges together many of my favorite Strategy games. And the Title of this game shall be...
Realms of Magic
*Fanfare & Thunder*
well, some may have read about it since I started a poll about how shall I name it a short time ago. my plan was to make it much more complete than I have it now before opening this, but hell, I just don't care... 
Introduction
So, to start with, what is this game all about? It is about leading and forming a realm in a fantasy setting, amongst other realms, through bloom and crisis. To do so, you will have to succeed in many fields, including military, diplomacy and civilian fields.
Influences
Since this game is meant to merge the best fantasy strategy games (from my eyes) together, here shall follow a list what I got from where and where this game shall differ GREATLY from the other games.
+ => Similarity
- => Difference
Heroes of Might and Magic
Well, a natural one to starrt with, eh? But what, aside the name, did I really take from here?
+Town development. It will not be the same but homm has always been one major inspiration for me in this field.
+Skills. Again it will not be the same, but as I plan it now, it has some major inspirations from heroes.
+Battle. Many aspects of battles will be taken from homm. There will probably be a hexagonal battlefield like in H3 and the initiative system may run like in H5 or like in H3, and both options are more probable like any others, right now. There are differences as well, many of them, but, as far as it can be without stacks and the different approach, many things should be familiar to long-time homm players.
-Heroes. Of course HoMM is the game that introduced me into the very idea and it DID inspire me, but there are many many differences. Especially, the hero role will not be as definite. Also, "heroes" (which, by the way, will maybe not called that) will age.
-Armies. Well, no stacking. Instead, there will be regiments.
-Time-passing. Well, in hoMM, one Adventure Map Turn lasts one day. In realms of magic, it will normally be one season=> 3 month. A minor aspect, but a big difference.
-Diplomacy.okay it's not that hard to differ from HoMM here - most HoMM games have almost none^^
Age of Wonders
This game also gave quite of inspiration for this to me.
+Relations. An aspect that I allways liked about AoW. I plan this to be expanded and quite interesting.
+Battle. AoW gave me quite an inspiration on how the combat itself can be performed. Also, the fact that more than 2 armies can participate in one battle will be in.
+Siege. I loved how locations and towns came into battle in AoW, s
+Locations. Quite some inspirations here on this level are planned, even though RoMM has a kinda "larger" scale than aow seems to have. Enterable locations are an example.
-Armies. Well, regiments instead of single units, with a few exceptions of course.
-Heroes. Closer than HoMM, but in RoMM, "heroes" shall not be military-only.
-Diplomacy. I wish for MUCH MORE diplomatic options than in AoW!
?Spell Research. I'm not certain, but it's possible I'll add
Total War
Quite some things from this, and still many differences, alone because it's Real-Time, while RoMM shall be turnbased.
+Army. Troops are mostly structured in regiments, and total war is my main inspiration for that.
+"Family". From Total War I'll take that there are "family trees" for the Leader and their family - or, in some cases, not their families... this will depend on the government form.
+Gameplay. Like in TW, RoMM will, outside of campaigns, play in a quite large area, in pregiven maps - which actually look like maps.
-Heroes. Okay, many things in my game are different, but I took from here the - to me essential - idea of many different single-person jobs: like in Total War, there will be Thiefs, Diplomats and more. Still, large large differences.
-Battles. Well, turn-based and overall, view connection to TW.
So, whilst I could write much more about the connection to other games, I'll post a basic description of how this game works and what it's about.
Game Modes
There are different modes which you can play in Realms of Might and Magic. The first, probably most common mode, would be the "Realm Campagin", in which you lead your realm on one really big map from a beginning situation as long as you can keep it up or until you reach one of the victory conditions. The second mode, which should be expected, is the "Story Campaign". here, you play through a definite story, usually on several rather small maps. Third, there will be "single battle" mode, in which you play (oh wonder) through one single battle.
Gameplay Basics - Campaign/Scenario Map
This map shows all the region in which the Campaign/Scenario plays. For a Realm Campaign this will usually be really large and cover a large area, for example a continent, or a large part of one.
It works pretty much like the adventure map of HoMM, with slight differences: For example, an army covering one space can be very big (because one "spot" still symbolizes an area quite large) - but not eternally big, because there is a limited amount of slots in one army (that can be expanded a bit, but not too far, in various ways). Then of course, the kind of locations are a bit different, because the scale is bigger, but the way locations work will be not too different. Terrain will be a bit different, since there will e much more terrain over which you can travel, especially hills and woods.
Setting Basics
The world of this game shall not be too worked out, but it has some characteristics which are of importance:
1) It is a fantastic world, inhabited by various races (I'll write about them below), mystical beasts and full of magic and mystery.
2) It's size is immense and it is NOT a world similar to our Earth, but a "flat" (geographically) fantasy world with a lot of landscapes and land masses. It is assumed the world has no eastern or western border, but it has climatical zones and it seems that north and south form some kind of "pole line" which eventually gets so cold that noone can reach it.
3) It has a (younger) history that is full of change - and not strictly defined as a player can customize their realm in any Realm Campaign.
4) There is not much advanced technology - in the base game. An expansion adding it is possible.
Work definitely in progress
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 30, 2013 12:43 PM |
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I await a more detailed description with anticipation.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted August 30, 2013 12:48 PM |
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If I am not mistaken the description is on page 224 on the creational game thread. 
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 30, 2013 12:58 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 15:37, 03 Oct 2013.
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?is iT? O.o that would be new to me^^ this is a project that has nothing to do with the cg, but an own project!
A short description is here.
So, here, I want to give more view on factions and their compositions. Major Factions (=players, wether AI or Human) in this game are usually called a Realm. But what is a Realm made of?
Basically, a Realm has 4 main components of which it is composed. Playing a Realm Campaign, you can customize your Realm by freely choosing a composition of this. The four Components are:
1. The Race of (the large majority of) its citizens. Ingame, this determines unit stats and sometimes abilities, but also production, city growths and other things. The races also have relations towards another.
2. The government Structure. This determines which kind of leader the realm has, how succession is done and how the people are ruled.
3. The culture. There are predefined cultures in this game, each having a large impact on the realm.
4. The main religion. Religions are quite different from another and come with different boni, mali and special buildings and units.
So let's take a closer look at these 4 components.
Race
The main race is the very basic of your game. For now, there will be no difference between race and species as for now I will offer only one race per species. But later on it's planned to have different races from one species - for example dark and light elves. In the menu, the different races are ordered in types like humanoid, hybrid and so on, but that is not of importance either. What is of importance is a) what influence has a race and b) which races are there. c) I will also come to the question of different races in one Realm and Town, here.
Basically a race determines the base stats of any unit and character belonging to it. They also determine the basic effectivity of various non-military actions done throughout the realm: food and ressource production, crafting, building, training, researching and more. They even give a twist to diplomacy and in-realm morale and effectivity by having a certain relation to each other race. and finally, they have a fertility value, that determines how quick cities grow and few other things.
Now, let's look at the races we have. These shall, for now, be seven: Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Goblins, Lizardmen and Halflings. Don'T worry that some classicals like undead, demons and mages are not in - they come in other ways
Humans
Well, as to be expected, humans are more or less the definition of average. Neither exceeding nor really weak in any aspect, without any special ability.
Elves
The focus of the Elves in this game is mainly magic, but they are also not bad when it comes to mind, dexterity and agility. Their (more or less huge) weaknesses are strength and fertility, as well as training, which takes quite longer than usual. Their productivity in terms of ressource production and building could be better as well. And of course they are very long-living.
Dwarves
Almost as long-living as the elves (well, actually not, but still far before the other races) and equally low fertility, but elsewise quite different: Hitpoint and Strengths are where the dwarves exceed, being rather slow on the other hand. They also are not good in magical things, yet coming with a good magic resistance (not unexpected, eh? ). On the production side, they are much better than the elves as well, and better than all other races (so far) when it comes to crafting and building especially.
Orcs
Well, they are orcs. Their fertility is about average (yes it is), they are strong, but - sorry to say that - not too smart, average on many other aspects. Special to them is a strong urge for fighting that comes from race, not culture, giving them a bonus on producing military things in any field, but a malus for all else. Also, they are not that magical as well, but not as strongly unmagical as dwarves or trolls. Relation is a bit difficult with quite some races, as well.
Goblins
The smaller cousins of the orcs, goblins are, above all, fertile. Actually, they are the most fertile race (so far, I have one in mind that might "outspawn" them). On the downhand, they are not so longliving. Statwise, they are not that exceeding, except agility and dexterity, while they are low in strength and in terms of mind. In production, they are no good builders, but efficient in ressource production and quick in learning and training.
Lizardmen
The only Hybrid race in the basic race setup, the lizardmen are different than the other races. Their scales make them very enduring and they are not weak, but neither are they stupid. They are a bit more fertile than unfertile, and still long-living. Sounds like a no-downer? Actually, they are indeed very strong but they have 2 problems which make it difficult for them to rise. First, they are natural swamp-dwellers, loving hot and damp climates. Other, especially dry or cold climates, will make them less effective - in battles, but in civilian aspects as well. This sounds like not a bad downside? Believe me, in a game where you shall conquere large regions of different climates, it is. Second, they are really slow on research. This is, on the long run, a real downside as well.
Halflings
Why are the halflings in? Because they are a fantasy classic, and because they are not in AoW 3.  Also because I wanted a race that is a bit different from the ones before. The halflings combine a life that's slightly longer than average with a fertility that is a good deal above average. Statwise, though, they are only good in dexterity - as small creatures, especially when it comes to hiding - but very weak in terms of strength and not that great in mind either. They are good in producing ressources, but not so much in crafting or building. They learn quick, making training quick as well, but they research slowly, holding to what they already know. And finally, they are on rather good terms with the other races.
Government
Well, well, here comes a nice little thing with a very big impact on gameplay. Government, as mentioned, determined the leader you will have (or, actually, IF you have one) and how succession works - and that brings quite some differences in gameplay, because you will not only have the single leader, but also other important characters of your government. Governments also have a strong influence on relations and in some cases on the effictivity of different fields within a realm.
So, what do we get here? Well, there are five types of government from which you can choose (for now): Monarchy, Feudalism, Theocracy, Republic and Community.
Monarchy
A Monarchy is led by a single ruler, who ensures their rule not (only) by force, but also by tradition and some kind of law. They also have some executive institutions benath them to ensure their rule. Still, the ruler holds (almost) the full power in their hands.
Ingame, playing a monarchy has different impacts.
First, you play one leader - and his or her family. The succession will go by heritage to the eldest child (you can also add a prefered gender at the beginning of the game, so the eldest daughter or son may succeed) and, if that's not possible, to the eldest brethren. As long as one of your current leaders family up to the level of cousins becomes the new leader, you stay in the game, so having your family survive is important (yes, that is pretty much the TW system!). Here, fertility is quite important, but also lifespan of a race and how well they survive battles and other events like diseases, assassination attempts and more.
Second, the control over each city is high, but the morale can be difficult sometimes. If a city does not get attention according to its size, it may rebel. Also, characters under your command, especially if they are also rulers, might try to overthrow you and take your place. The game of power may be a bit tricky.
Also, your leader holds the final control over your armies, if he is present, he will always have the command.
Relations
Concerning relations, monarchy has a certain influence when you are confronted with Communities or especially Republics, which usually have a high suspicion against monarchies.
Theocracy
A Theocracy is a government where all power lies in the hands of the clergy of the realms religion. Thus, the religion has MUCH more influence than in other governments. Here, it even determines the leader and the succession and we'll take a look at that more when coming to the single religions.
Republic
A republic is not lead by a single ruler, but by some form of senate or Council. Thus, in the game you do not have one leader, but several senators. When a senator falls, a new one is elected, so theoretically, therer is no end to it. In the game, indeed, you cannot loose by loosing your senators. but instead, you have to look very careful that your realm supports the government as whole. For that, there are 5 groups of potential supporters: army, clergy, scholars, citizen and workers.
Community
A community is a special form of government. For it to be possible, there must be a very strong connection between all beings in that realm. This connection can be of spiritual, magical or natural kind, but it will have the same effects. First, in a community there actually are kind of leaders, but they are only those who are estimated to be the person/s most capable of ruling. Also, the connection prevents the leader from acting strongly against the will of the realms population. And now THAT is something quite affecting gameplay. How does it work? Well, simple enough: You cannot act against your population. Quite some actions will just be forbidden, but which - that depends on the realm you have. Diplomatic relation is now extremely strong in its influence: you simply CAN NOT attack a realm to which you have good relations. Betrayal is not a thing of communities - that is also important on the inner politics: Since betrayal is not common, spying and infiltration of communities are really hard. Integration does not work well, either, in both ways.
Now, an important point is succession and if you can loose the game through political change. Well, to achieve that, someone will have to "cut" the connection of the community. Depending on wether you chose a magical, spiritual or natural connection, there are different ways to do so: Creating an arcane "jammer" in each city of an enemy community will disrupt it if it's magical. To destroy a natural connection a disrupting infection must be spread. And for a spiritual communities you need to subtly infiltrate it with fears, doubts and anger, until the community gives it up freely.
Culture
The culture is what determines HOW the people in a realm live. Do they prefer well-built cities or free camps? Do they view violance as honorable, as a necessarity or as purely evil? Do they love magic - or hate it? and so on. Now how does it work in game? It works by having 1 major and 1 minor culture.
Major Cultures
These are of course, those with more impact, which greatly affect the life - and rule - of the realm. There are 5 Major cultures: A Nomadic people roams the lands, never staying in one place. A Rural realm will have large parts of the population living in the countryside.The most average major culture may be the Feudal/Medieval culture, having average cities and no outstanding cultural specialization. A Sophisticated/Urban culture tends to have large, cultivated cities. Finally, you can choose to have a Necromantic Realm.
Feudal/Medieval
As mentioned above, this is the average, the gameplay is standardized around this major culture. The cities are average in size, the distribution of their population is standard. They get no special bonus and start with an average army.
Rural
Well, this describes a culture where most of it's citizens live in the countryside. This means, cities have a larger influence range, but are smaller themselves. Rural realms get a bonus on gathering of ressources, but a malus on research. Their starting army consits largely of weak but numerous "milita" troops.
Sophisticated/Urban
These are the opposites of Rural cultures. A sophisticated pople will rather live in the cities than in the countryside. Because of that, their range of influence is reduced, but the cities themselves are quite big. They get a bonus on building, but a malus on gathering ressources out town. Their starting army will consist of fewer, better trained units than other realms'.
Nomadic
Well, we all know what nomads are, don't we? This is a very special major culture, which I'll prob'ly give more infos on later What I can say know is they can move their cities, are not great builders or researchers and awesome mounted. Choosing this culture, you can also choose a basic mount for the faction: Horse, Wolf, Run-Bird (a big non-flying bird, similar to an ostrich), Boar, Bull or Praery Cat for average-sized races. The starting army will consist exclusively of units mounted on that mount.
Necromantic
Why did I put them Necromancers here? Because I wanted And because their impact is that big and they are no religion in this game, and neither a race. So, Necromancy will also be able to achieve through magical research in this game. But a Necromantic society - that is something different. The Death has no power in such a realm - the necromancers have it. A certain part of the population is undead. The others may fear or hate the necromancers, or love them. One way or another, they do not know it any different. Necromancy is simply normal in this society. That's why, unlike anyone else, a Necromantic realm can rely on a good number of undead recruits whcih tehy can buy in the town - the reserves are big enough. The city-countryside distribution is equal. They have a hang for magic and research, but lack crafting power. Also, they will get diplomatic problems with any none-necromantic culture. Their starting army consist of...undead (well, who'd have though that^^)
The "minor" cultures work more subtle, but have no small impact on the game either! In fact, the word minor is not taht fitting, but I lack for a better for now. Roughly, the "minor" culture can describe quite a lot of things but it definitely describes in which area a realm is most effective.
Agricultural
+Farming
Barbarian
-Research
+Strength&numbers&Plundering
Creative
+Research
Expansive
+Population growth & city founding
Protective
-
+Defensive Structures&Armour
Seafaring
+anything sea-related
Example Realms
To make things a little bit more visual, I'll here give a few example Realms - 1 for each race, to be precise.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 30, 2013 01:45 PM |
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 30, 2013 01:45 PM |
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted August 31, 2013 09:01 PM |
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Nice to see you back in businesses 
Now, feedback time:
Game Modes
A nice twist of the classical game, this has a lot of potential to spice up the gameplay. You could have an endless siege where you would have to fight infinite waves of attackers that increase in numbers and powers with an initial army and then gather points by surviving as long as you can or only spell battles where you have an attack-less unit and all the spells in the game and you need to defeat a large horde of attackers.
Races
Humans- you could have written a lot more on humans, I would suggest to make them an race opened to science( bordered by religion however) and very adaptable to a lot of climates, like real world humans.
Elves- are they the forest hippies like we are used or a noble race that lies in its high citadels surrounded by magical servants and which uses lowly races or magical means to gather resources?
Dwarves- looks like you have the average dwarves that we are used too or am I wrong?
Goblins- the rabbit race  , they could conquer civilizations just by making peaceful settlements and suffocate the main races with thousands of goblins, a more passive-aggressive stance
Lizardmen- my favorite race( isn't that obvious? ), the swamp climate is a rather classical choice for the lizards, but I don't understand why they don't like dry climates, the deserts are inhabited by a lot of reptiles
Halflings- a golbin-dwarf hybrid? it could be interesting
Government and Monarchy
I don't know how the ruler works in terms of gameplay, so I won't comment it for now.
Can't wait to see more details and the line-ups. I'll stay tuned for more and comment/suggest.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 01, 2013 11:38 AM |
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Quote:
Game Modes
A nice twist of the classical game, this has a lot of potential to spice up the gameplay. You could have an endless siege where you would have to fight infinite waves of attackers that increase in numbers and powers with an initial army and then gather points by surviving as long as you can or only spell battles where you have an attack-less unit and all the spells in the game and you need to defeat a large horde of attackers.
I assume you mean the battle mode? indeed, this should hold potential for very diverse types of playing!
Before I give a closer look on your race comments, I want to stress out that the races are almost independent from culture, religion and government choice.
Quote:
Humans- you could have written a lot more on humans, I would suggest to make them an race opened to science( bordered by religion however) and very adaptable to a lot of climates, like real world humans.
Hm. yeah I will add teh adaptable point but in gameplay in fact, this adaptability will mostly COME from the averageness. For example (in battle) with the elves, it is easier to go for spellcasting units, because that's their special, and dwarves will have great fighters, but humans will have access to both - not as powerful maybe, but not leaving a weak spot either.
Quote:
Elves- are they the forest hippies like we are used or a noble race that lies in its high citadels surrounded by magical servants and which uses lowly races or magical means to gather resources?
Well...this depends on religion, government and culture. You will even easily be able to make a "dark elf" faction with these elves, by choosing a dark religion, a totalitary government and an aggressive or secretive culture.
Quote:
Dwarves- looks like you have the average dwarves that we are used too or am I wrong?
nope. What I'm still thinking about is wether to add an underground or moutnain affinity for them...
Quote:
Goblins- the rabbit race , they could conquer civilizations just by making peaceful settlements and suffocate the main races with thousands of goblins, a more passive-aggressive stance
 indeed. THey may also be able to actually infiltrate these like a virus, because there will be thigns like immigrants. So imagine, the goblin player having his quick growing gobo population move into foreign cities. First, it is only a few shacks. Then it's slums. And suddenly, the player may have a growing goblin riot.
Quote:
Lizardmen- my favorite race( isn't that obvious? ), the swamp climate is a rather classical choice for the lizards, but I don't understand why they don't like dry climates, the deserts are inhabited by a lot of reptiles
YI thought it would be Because later on I plan to divide the species of lizardmen into two races and the one in now is the swamp-type. the other will be desert
Quote:
Halflings- a golbin-dwarf hybrid? it could be interesting
Somehow, indeed.
Quote:
I don't know how the ruler works in terms of gameplay, so I won't comment it for now.
DO you understaqnd the monarchy?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted September 04, 2013 09:28 AM |
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Quote:
DO you understand the monarchy?
I understand it, but I don't know (yet) how it differs from the others forms of government in terms of gameplay.
I will stay tuned for more, I can't wait to see your factions.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 04, 2013 11:30 AM |
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Quote:
I understand it, but I don't know (yet) how it differs from the others forms of government in terms of gameplay.
I've allready given some info on other government types, maybe that can help?
Actually, the main influence is which leader(s) you have and how succession is dealt. How succession ios dealt is important because in most forms, only if you get a successor of your familiy/party/whatever you can continue to play. So, the government offers one losing condition, or, from the other point of view, one way to finish off enemy realms.
An example: If you face a monarchy or feudalism, it may be easier to finish off the ruling family than to conquer all their lands. For a Republic you may take the government support in certain groups away by sending infiltrating agents. In a theocracy soem placed assassinations or spreading a different religion can both be effective. A community will be most hard to hit in that aspect, probably.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 04, 2013 06:54 PM |
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Just wanted to pop in and say; I like it, I would like to see it come to life one day.
You should try to get on-board with some Game-Co. Or, start your own vision at Kickstarter or something.
Cheers
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 05, 2013 08:43 AM |
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markkur said:
Just wanted to pop in and say; I like it, I would like to see it come to life one day.
You should try to get on-board with some Game-Co. Or, start your own vision at Kickstarter or something.
Cheers
Thanks.
Yet I doubt it will. Would be an awful lot of work for any team I think, and don't know how liked it would be. :/
but again, thank you! =)
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted September 12, 2013 09:24 AM |
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Edited by Locksley at 09:31, 12 Sep 2013.
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Nice game in a fascinating World! I hope it comes to the stores soon.
I've got this idea about regiments. Instead of making big stacks as in Heroes when buying troops, perhaps a regiment could be trained in the Town. One week/season of training could increase Power equally to buying a weeks growth in Heroes. Losses could reduce how well trained a regiment is, but winning a battle could count as additional training.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 12, 2013 03:43 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 15:44, 12 Sep 2013.
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Jiriki9 said:
...many things should be familiar to long-time homm players.-Armies. Well, no stacking. Instead, there will be regiments.
It seems everyone wants this except myself. I like it in T-War but there we fight battles like RL Generals. <imo> In HoMM I don't want to see individual units like in Civ or Fallen-E; I far prefer the classic HoMM battles.
Where I think change would be good is the Battlefield-size or varied-shapes; that you see the same terrain and objects nearby from the ADV-Map and how the battles are fought or change to creature attacks & magic. I would "expand the H5 battles and enhance them"; not replace with another cloned version of what's nowadays quite typical. What "I think" you're proposing sounds like what AoW3 will be and I want HoMM to stay HoMM.
I know you're wanting to create a "new game" so my thoughts may be way off-target. Sorry if they are. I still say you need to do some big-dreaming and go for this. With your creativity and imagination you could make a kickstarter event of your own, sometime in the future. Cheers
____________
"Do your own research"
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 14, 2013 11:51 AM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 17:43, 23 Sep 2013.
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Locksley said:
Nice game in a fascinating World! I hope it comes to the stores soon.
I've got this idea about regiments. Instead of making big stacks as in Heroes when buying troops, perhaps a regiment could be trained in the Town. One week/season of training could increase Power equally to buying a weeks growth in Heroes. Losses could reduce how well trained a regiment is, but winning a battle could count as additional training.
Thanks Would be great but I ahve to repeat again: I do not have time power money and energy to make it being designed, programmed, produced and published.
For the second point: Regiments will definitely be able to gain experience - normally by battle, but also by other means and there may be a building allowing training thats a nice idea, thanks!!!
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I know you're wanting to create a "new game" so my thoughts may be way off-target. Sorry if they are. I still say you need to do some big-dreaming and go for this. With your creativity and imagination you could make a kickstarter event of your own, sometime in the future. Cheers
Yeah a bit, but that's no problem. For HoMM, I, too, will always want stacks. for this game, not
About dreaming: we will see, but I have many other passions and obligations... still I love to dream and I will try to continue this one!
EDIT: I plan to do at least one update this weak. If I manage more, what would you want to know more about most?
1) Research
2) Town&Population management
3) Units: Unit composition and Unit Experience
4) "Heroes": Fields of Expertise and Skill overview
I'd really like your input!
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 23, 2013 07:15 PM |
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Each are good for me.
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1) Research
2) Town&Population management
3) Units: Unit composition and Unit Experience
4) "Heroes": Fields of Expertise and Skill overview
When I looked at this list, my 1st thoughts were; could one of the four be the "base"?, and also, between these; is one independent and m/l dictating the other 3?
These thoughts gave me an idea; what if you created a master-list of Hero, troop and townspeople "impacts" (lack of a better word)<iow> a over-arching plan for all the realm-upgrades and the path for each as the Player would experience them?
Take one "impact" an have the outline of how and where it is modified?
A.simple i.e. you have 3 different townsfolk and one is a miner; his output is affected by a Hero that specializes in Mining, a town-building that advances into better tool-making, and his age also adds a bonus.
B. The other townsfolk are the farmer & the craftsman and they too experience this basic skill-path.
This has been done before but that's no reason to not step-back and imagine the world-view all of these impacts (at once)and see new innovations within all the trees and how to make all 4 areas (your current listing) and including all the rest, to create the master-plan for how all areas might interact...to one impact, like mining.
A plan for the planning.
btw, since I've said you should think about setting out in RL with something like this I'll also add; might be a good idea to take one area, like "Diplomacy" and craft it into something wonderful. Then keep that to yourself and only share with later real team-members. You'll need a "hook" something to make your Game unique. <imo> Diplomacy is an epic fail everywhere, so that could be your ticket.
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Locksley
Promising
Famous Hero
Wielding a six-string
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posted September 25, 2013 04:29 PM |
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Edited by Locksley at 16:36, 25 Sep 2013.
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Jiriki9 said:
Regiments will definitely be able to gain experience - normally by battle, but also by other means and there may be a building allowing training thats a nice idea, thanks!!!
It could be good to have a lot of levels instead of a few, otherwise it would be too easy to get high levels with a training building.
Levels is also nice for a system mixing powerful individual monsters like a Dragon or a Dwarven Tank with regiments of Spearmen or Goblins.
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1) Research
2) Town&Population management
3) Units: Unit composition and Unit Experience
4) "Heroes": Fields of Expertise and Skill overview
Probably you are already busy with something, but my hint is to start with the thing that is most important in the game and make that good. Then it's easier to know which other things must be compromised away.
Like Markkur said it's often diplomacy that is the epic fail though and that makes any war game so unlogical, there has to be reasons for the wars and ways to avoid them.
Europa Universalis is a game with really great diplomacy system that could inspire - religion, culture, national ideas and policy focus, espionage, government form and your alliances, everything shape your relations over time. Wars, insults, marriages, (dis)honoring alliances have instant effect. Declaring war without cause drops internal stability and relations to other countries.
Markkur's suggestion to list how things "impact" each other in the post above is interesting.
Of the 4 things you suggested I think research and (town/province) development is most basic to the game.
markkur said:
Where I think change would be good is the Battlefield-size or varied-shapes; that you see the same terrain and objects nearby from the ADV-Map and how the battles are fought or change to creature attacks & magic.
I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean but something like this is actually very nicely done in Heroes 6. The battle field doesn't look like the adventure map, but if you're on a cliff on desert terrain by the sea near a mine and a road on the adventure map, the battle field and its surroundings does often have all these things in one way or another.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted September 25, 2013 06:35 PM |
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Locksley said:
I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean but something like this is actually very nicely done in Heroes 6. The battle field doesn't look like the adventure map, but if you're on a cliff on desert terrain by the sea near a mine and a road on the adventure map, the battle field and its surroundings does often have all these things in one way or another.
Thanks, I've not played H6 and didn't realize that they may have listened to the fans on one idea. Several of us discussed this bit a long while back.
So that's the bulk of what I meant but I would also add that's no reason to not put on the Wizard's-Hat and try to spell-cast<L> a fresh representation of the battle-field.
H5 was in 3D so I would like to see 3D battlefields like in TW where skeleton-archers, gremlins, etc. can be placed on hills, behind trees, or Paladins are trying to clear a nasty bog lying at the bottom of a hazy valley.
On a related note; I think I'm a tad different than most of the folks that want to reach back and hang on to the old gaming formats; I've found RL impacts like "elevation" do not detract from Fantasy at all but for me they seriously enhance the fantastic.
Where I would part way with RL impacts is not the natural rules of sight and movement that we experience every day in life but any RL requirements about real warfare. <iow> I like the idea of a battlefield making my creatures walk uphill or downhill but I don't want to employ West Point tactics in the game; because I think we've proven that knowing creature abilities etc, provides the strategies we need to learn for effective deployment. Bottom line. I no longer want my army standing in a flat arena like it's 40 years ago and I'm only playing chess with glorified game-pieces. Elevation, that's "my ticket" because I want pits, hills and mountains to battle in and around. I've read lots of posts in favor of 2d, just thought I'd make one in favor of 3d and all that it will bring when done correctly.
I do not doubt the Q has this same vision for his new A.I. and I can't wait to see it.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted October 01, 2013 10:12 AM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 10:12, 01 Oct 2013.
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When I looked at this list, my 1st thoughts were; could one of the four be the "base"?, and also, between these; is one independent and m/l dictating the other 3?
Hmm, hard to say. I do not think so. I mean, they all are interrelated, of course! But that one dictates the others...I do not htink so...it is all related somehow, and still needs a description for itself.
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These thoughts gave me an idea; what if you created a master-list of Hero, troop and townspeople "impacts" (lack of a better word)<iow> a over-arching plan for all the realm-upgrades and the path for each as the Player would experience them?
Ehm, not sure how you mean that...would be quite difficult I think. Also, what do you mena by realm-upgrades?
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Take one "impact" an have the outline of how and where it is modified?
A.simple i.e. you have 3 different townsfolk and one is a miner; his output is affected by a Hero that specializes in Mining, a town-building that advances into better tool-making, and his age also adds a bonus.
B. The other townsfolk are the farmer & the craftsman and they too experience this basic skill-path.
Wow, a lot of idea in this, I feel... For your general question: I will try to do that while presenting the single fields...
For the miner...similar things will be possible. Citizen age will not come in, htough, I think. I plan on worjing with city population in a mix of civ, mom, aow and tw^^
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This has been done before but that's no reason to not step-back and imagine the world-view all of these impacts (at once)and see new innovations within all the trees and how to make all 4 areas (your current listing) and including all the rest, to create the master-plan for how all areas might interact...to one impact, like mining.
I think I'm starting to get your idea, but it would be rather complex. maybe I 'll do it later, anyway, thanks for the idea! =)
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btw, since I've said you should think about setting out in RL with something like this I'll also add; might be a good idea to take one area, like "Diplomacy" and craft it into something wonderful. Then keep that to yourself and only share with later real team-members. You'll need a "hook" something to make your Game unique. <imo> Diplomacy is an epic fail everywhere, so that could be your ticket.
again: don't think so I'm just studying to be a special education teacher and nearing the end (only one-and-a-half years left), I have many other hobbies, many friends, and and and... to set out with this in RL, I'd need more time and ressources than I have. So I'm fully content with presenting my vision here. Also, most ideas aren't really new, it's mostly the combination of all that would make this game unique. But as you mention diplomacy: I plan that to be a huge, marvellous thing indeed. Even in Civ, which has one of the most versatile diplomacy screens, it seemed mostly so flat to me...
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It could be good to have a lot of levels instead of a few, otherwise it would be too easy to get high levels with a training building.
I think there will It will definitely not be like in aow, where units ahve only 3 levels^^
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Levels is also nice for a system mixing powerful individual monsters like a Dragon or a Dwarven Tank with regiments of Spearmen or Goblins.
you may be quite right. I think, though, that regiments work towards this as well - because you will, with proceeding game - also be able to have larger regiments. And there will boni for regiments as well. So a dragon may easily crush through 3 regiments which include 20 unarmed, untrained goblins each. But he may have problems with one regiment of 30 Elite Dwarven Warriors in Mithril Armour with heavy Mithril axes, warded by Runes, with a great Discipline and backed up by a Supreme Commander and Tactician. And a regiment of 20 High-Level Elven Sharpshooters with Longbows and diverse upgrades may, with a bit of luck, finish off the Dragon before it can come close. Dragons, however, will indeed belong to the strongest units in the game, probably, hard to kill, heavy damage and strong abilites.
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Probably you are already busy with something, but my hint is to start with the thing that is most important in the game and make that good. Then it's easier to know which other things must be compromised away.
Hmm, I will try. The point is that the outstanding about this game shall be the combination of all of it and the variety and vastness of anything. And still I hope to make it playable for average fantasy turn-based strategy players.
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Like Markkur said it's often diplomacy that is the epic fail though and that makes any war game so unlogical, there has to be reasons for the wars and ways to avoid them.
100% agreed. And I'll try to make that good - especially the DIplomacy with AIs! As you both seem to find it important a short preview on diplomacy here:
-You will be able to trade almost ANYTHING in the game - one way or another. Even single individuals will be available for trade, in at least two ways: as hostage and by marriage.
-The computer players shall make REASONABLE and FITTING diplomacy! That is one of the most annoying things about current games' diplomacy, as far as I know. The AIs are either easy to abuse or only willing to trade/form pacts if they get an advantage that makes the whole interaction ridiculous. This also include a fitting balance between aggression and the will to conquer opposed to peace and friendship. In some games, AI alwayshad only the ultimate goal to make war against you if they are able and only made peace if you were to strong. I think that is not enough. There are other reasons for pacts than not being able to take what you want by force. Here, the government and culture will come in! A Barbaric culture will have much more will to use violence than an Agricultural one. Also, the language shall be more fitting!
-there shall be a number of formable pacts and each with the option otmake it open or secret.
-Diplomacy will also be available for neutral locations and armies! These, though, will only hold up to it alone, not all neutrals!
-There will be a reputation of Trustworthyness you have. Thus, you will not eternally be capable of just making peace or more with everyone and then picking one of them and finishing 'em one by one.
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Europa Universalis is a game with really great diplomacy system that could inspire - religion, culture, national ideas and policy focus, espionage, government form and your alliances, everything shape your relations over time. Wars, insults, marriages, (dis)honoring alliances have instant effect. Declaring war without cause drops internal stability and relations to other countries.
Sounds interesting!
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Of the 4 things you suggested I think research and (town/province) development is most basic to the game.
You may be right. I will probably do it next.
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I'm not sure I get exactly what you mean but something like this is actually very nicely done in Heroes 6. The battle field doesn't look like the adventure map, but if you're on a cliff on desert terrain by the sea near a mine and a road on the adventure map, the battle field and its surroundings does often have all these things in one way or another.
Where the battle is fought will have great impact on the battlfield - but only the spot itself I thing, because of scale: in Homm, such would be realsistic, because the whole hero movement is what oyu manage in a day, so one step for the hero is a range that can easily be represented by a battlefield. When the whole movement of an army describes the range they travel in 3 months, that is highly unlikely, because the sight even on the next spot will probably be at least a day away...btw, battles may(I'm not sure, but I find it intriguing) take time and thus take movement. Not much, but a bit, maybe. And yet maybe not. We'll see.
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H5 was in 3D so I would like to see 3D battlefields like in TW where skeleton-archers, gremlins, etc. can be placed on hills, behind trees, or Paladins are trying to clear a nasty bog lying at the bottom of a hazy valley.
Well, have you ever played AoW?
I plan to make the battlefield very important! There will be different obstacles, height, terrain andsize variations. And there will be battlefield locations, sometimes local troops on the battlefield and even levels! For the first, a simple example ios just buildings, which shelter your units (like an abandoned tower or a Windmill). But there could be more intriguing things like secret mechanisms, aiding or opposing neutrals, magical structures, etc., etc., etc. An example for the second idea could be you and your opponent are fighting in a farming area that belongs to neither of you - and in this area both of you will face the angry farmers which are not that happy you are fighting on their lands. For the levels, the best example is fighting over a mine, which will feature more than 2 levels, between (most of) the units can switch by using stairs and more.
Also the size will vary by various variables.
EDIT: next update will finish cultures and religions, hopefully!
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted October 01, 2013 04:34 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 16:35, 01 Oct 2013.
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Jiriki9 said:
...-You will be able to trade almost ANYTHING in the game - one way or another. Even single individuals will be available for trade, in at least two ways: as hostage and by marriage.
Love this idea! Maybe include the possibility of family-defection in the mix. Like when the last Saxon King Harold had his younger brother fight against him at Stamford bridge. 
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"Do your own research"
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