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| Thread: Multiplayer to rigid? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 07:02 PM |
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Edited by krs at 19:48, 14 Dec 2013.
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Multiplayer to rigid?
I am playing only randoms / multiplayer lately. 3 big things force gameplay into predefined patterns.
1) Necro and Conflux are too powerful and Inferno too weak no-one is playing them. => More or less same factions face each-other all the time.
2) Nobody plays magic or (95% of) hybrid heroes.
3) Everyone gets/aims for the same skills all the time.
So about barbarian heroes... I think a limit imposed on the level of spells they learn (same with castle they come from) will greatly cripple GoD like heroes like Hack, Tazar & co. In this way they will not have access to DD, Fly, Berserk, TP, Res, Implosion...
Would this be a sensible modification to add some balance?
EDIT 1:
As for crappy skills... what improvements would make you at least situationally think about getting them? Are there any good proposals already for them?
I understand Navigation, Scolar, Scouting, Estates, Balistics as situational / secondary hero only skills so they are ok like they are.
But skills intended for primary hero like: Artillery, First Aid, Leadership?, Luck?, Learning, Mysticism and the champion Eagle Eye!
- Artillery and First aid should at least increase the HP of balista, tent.
- Learning - Increase percentages so that it would actually matter?
- Mysticism - 4 sp when you have it on Expert...
- Eagle eye - maybe allow hero to learn spells from neutrals, or from spells cast by enemy on the other side of the map?
- Luck should do some things on adv map, but not only in finding things, cause then it will be a secondary hero one.
EDIT 2:
Wisdom is important enough, but it could be a prerequisite for spells in all situations!! Books of Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Hat, Scrolls! It will also force Might heroes to consider leveling it earlier in detriment of other skills.
EDIT 3:
Another might hero acceptable nerf would be to tie Recanters and Inhibition to Wisdom as well. You block only if you have the wisdom to know about those spells.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 07:24 PM |
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Inferno is not weak actually, i'd say with proper demon farming it's one of the best.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 07:31 PM |
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revolut1oN said:
Inferno is not weak actually, i'd say with proper demon farming it's one of the best.
Everything is situational. But to be forced to demon farming as your main tactic... Is'nt Necro enough?
One of the greatest weaknesses on randoms is that on lava terrain you do not find nothing. No post, no crypts, no hives, no conservatories, no nothing! I would prefer to see at least crypts on lava and some conservatory equivalent that gives you devils.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 07:40 PM |
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 07:40 PM |
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What's wrong with demon farming? It's a feature, you could also say that it's boring that the Rampart main and only tactic during first weeks is Centaur Captain and Grand Elf combo. That's how it works.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 07:46 PM |
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revolut1oN said:
What's wrong with demon farming? It's a feature, you could also say that it's boring that the Rampart main and only tactic during first weeks is Centaur Captain and Grand Elf combo. That's how it works.
... That "combo" is not even remotely good even on moderately rich randoms. But that apart, even with the demon farming no-one! plays inferno and for good reasons.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 07:50 PM |
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Edited by krs at 19:52, 14 Dec 2013.
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Hobbit said:
I second that.
*looks for HotA Crew*
HotA in theory is one of the best things that could happen to heroes. In practice you are translating it for ~ 2 years now... Please prove me wrong for this X-Mas 
Another thing that bothers me on HotA... do you have a list with all the things that changed / are about to change? Maybe my complaints are already addressed...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 14, 2013 08:14 PM |
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Oh no again those pseudo-statistics. Inferno is good town, devils can win fights no other monster can, then pit lords can farm demons. Heroes are bad but that's why we have taverns.
You don't like farming, don't play inferno but don't say is weak. It is what balances the town.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 08:28 PM |
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...but I still would love to see more useful objects on lava terrain on randoms. 
And Inferno IS weak, though not as weak as many people think it is. Still, some bonuses (for gogs e.g.) would be nice.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 08:41 PM |
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No way Inferno is weak. Best level 7, one of the best lvl 6, also available early, awesome level 3 and 5...
And krs have you played any MULTIPLAYER games? Centaur Captain + Grand elf wins all fights till late week 2 when you start getting angels...
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 09:18 PM |
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I see some think differently about Infernos weakness... I remain to my conviction and I guess you remain at yours. What about the other points? Any opinions on those?
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 14, 2013 11:20 PM |
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Edited by Hobbit at 23:23, 14 Dec 2013.
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revolut1on said:
No way Inferno is weak. Best level 7
We're not discussing about the graphics, are we?
Devils aren't bad, but they are definitely not the best, and they are really expensive comparing to their strength. Inferno is often weak for other reasons though. Pretty bad start with imps and gogs (even though cerberi are awesome), the whole army is (considering as a whole) low on health and really expensive... It's not unplayable town, you still can win with it, it's just the worst when you compare it to other towns.
krs said:
What about the other points? Any opinions on those?
I agree when it comes to Learning and Eagle Eye, though I'd think about something different for the second one...
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2013 12:22 AM |
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You really underestimate the no retal ability. Within the right conditions (and is not that hard to get them), devils will win against all others. Combination of hit/blind, they even fit into force field leaving no gasp, they are enough fast and they have awesome graphics as well.
The only thing noticeable is indeed lava terrain, which is less intuitive and friendly than grass, but well designed templates will be ok for all.
I enjoy inferno but is hard to know if no one plays with it because is weak or because maps are bad designed. Of course when you hold 45 rules about no hit and run, no this or that, there is always one town which will suffer. So far Tower and Inferno are mutilated on current templates.
I am interested about those playing in WCL opinions, I see they don't avoid inferno if random but don't pick it much. And win/loss statistics are not worse than several other towns.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted December 15, 2013 12:44 AM |
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Edited by Hobbit at 00:44, 15 Dec 2013.
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No retal is one thing, but low health is the other. As I said devils aren't bad (actually none of 7lvl units are bad, but you know what I mean), they are, however, definitely not the best either.
Many people try to compare units by 1v1, but it doesn't mean much when you actually play the real game.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 15, 2013 12:45 AM |
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I think one of the best skill modifications of Wog is Warfare skill that combines Artillery, First Aid and Ballista. Merging of those makes a very handy new skill and gets rid of three crap skills both at the same time. Modifications on Eagle Eye, Learning, Mysticism are also original and good. What I don't get is people staying away from Wog and then complaining about crap skills. What you ask has been done already, you think Wog is too much, turn off everything except the skill modifications, what's wrong with that?
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted December 15, 2013 01:26 AM |
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Obviously devils rock on level 7, i'd say top 3 definitely, arguably the best. Most single-player guys underestimate them, while in multiplayer they are one of the most useful units in game. Maybe angels are better but only due to conservatories, not their value. I agree about poor terrain though. However, it depends. For example on Jebus, Inferno rocks.
Hobbit said:
low health is the other
Low health? 200 is not low for a unit that stops retaliation - which means getting 2 times less hits than the other troops. Their purpose is not to be a powerstack with impressive damage and durability (demons are) but to provide hit&run on strategic enemies. One time i remember playing vs my mate on Jebus, we played no rules 160% and he was necro Galthran. I had Marius and was lucky enough to get expert earth and slow, and since guardians were average (a lot or horde of nagas iirc) I managed to get to the desert in week 2. I haven't started farming yet (usually i do that beginning week 3 or day 6-7 week 2) so I actually had only 5 devils (usually level7 dwelling on jebus) and 5 efreets on main, and the pit lords were not ready yet. Suddenly a Galthran appeared (imba vampire lords allowed him to also get out early) and we had an epic final battle, where i just rotflstomped about 300 skeletons, vampire lords, liches and knights with just devils and slow. I've lost nobody, and heroes were quite equal. Even without slow i could have just take out the knights and vampire lords and then out-wait him while lightning bolt would do some extra damage.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2013 02:32 AM |
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IMO all wog modifications on eagle eye, scholar or mysticism are imba, free spells, read spells in guild in advance is fun but too much too allow decent MP game. But the one on learning they hit it well, 50% chance to get one primary skill on level up is indeed interesting. Given that learning is the ONLY 100% useless skill in vanilla, I would play with it now.
Warfare is overkill still with the additional ballistas you get.
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Era II mods and utilities
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 15, 2013 03:45 AM |
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Quote:
Warfare is overkill still with the additional ballistas you get.
That's Enhanced War Machines III, Warfare only merges the 3 skills, no additional powers.
Scholar is fine as it is, I agree on that. And I don't use the Eagle Eye that gives away free spells but the one that counter spells. It's kind of like Resistance but instead of not receiving offensive spells, you stop him receiving beneficial spells, not really overpowered considering the original skill is usually useless.
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krs
Famous Hero
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posted December 15, 2013 08:48 AM |
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Anyone has a link to Wog skill description? Or any other mod that modifies secondary skills?
any opinions on limiting the spells might heroes can cast to their respective faction max mage guild level?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 15, 2013 09:20 AM |
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Btw, Maretti posted a VIDEO from his inferno vs tower game.
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