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| Thread: Intentions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 20, 2014 09:00 PM |
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Intentions
I remember reading about a case, a guy driving on the highway comes by a car accident, he sees a victim on the road, he stops, gets out of his car and puts a pillow he keeps in the car under the lying victim's head, dials the emergency number. Unfortunately, the victim had an injury, when his head is moved, he starts losing blood and dies. Now, the Good Samaritan is convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
So, is it your intention that matters or is it the outcome? If you were the judge, would you find the man guilty? In our personal life, we seem to give intentions a lot of credit. But what is the gravity of good intentions in the world of business, politics, law, international affairs or even warfare? I'm not known to be a romantic on such matters but is it none?
Intentions also bring up the problem of good, evil and their relativity once again. Because in most cases, actions that are considered evil are not defined so, by the people who are responsible for those actions. Almost nobody starts their day with the intention of doing some evil work.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 20, 2014 09:22 PM |
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Quote:
gets out of his car and puts a pillow he keeps in the car under the lying victim's head
Lol, why?
Is he stupid or something?
You were drunk and didn't mean to run over that kid nextdoor, really. how can the end result not matter?
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 20, 2014 09:30 PM |
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The fact of the matter is that he directly caused the death of the victim, therefore he is guilty of second degree murder, i.e manslaughter. The lack of intention should be a mitigating factor in the sentencing. Whether his recklessness was gross or not should be investigated, and the findings would either aggravate or mitigate the punishment. But, he is guilty for the death of the victim.
But...This individual should not get a custodial sentence, he is responsible for the death of another, but he is not an active danger to society, and the lack of intention to kill means that a prison sentence would be silly since the guy was only doing what he thought best.
I'd sentence the guy to indentured servitude to the victim's family for an indefinite amount of time.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 20, 2014 09:46 PM |
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Lol, why?
Is he stupid or something?
My guess is, he was carried away by what he was doing and it seemed like a gesture of compassion. It's not a totally insane thing to do when you see someone laying on cold asphalt, especially if you have no medical knowledge at all.
Quote:
You were drunk and didn't mean to run over that kid nextdoor, really. how can the end result not matter
That's a little different. Your intention was not to kill anyone, sure, but you chose to drink and drive and it is very common knowledge that alcohol hinders your ability to drive. So your intention was not evil but you were reckless to the point where you didn't care about easily predicted loss of life.
Now, if somebody puts a drug into my lunch and then I have an accident, will I be convicted?
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted April 20, 2014 10:44 PM |
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Tsar-Ivor said:
therefore he is guilty of second degree murder,
It most US jurisdictions, these aren't the same thing. Murder is an intent to kill; manslaughter is not.
At worst this would be involuntary manslaughter, based on criminal negligence, but I don't think in the specific example described a criminal charge would be levied. (I am no lawyer, though.)
This does not mean that the person responsible would be immune to a civil lawsuit, however.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 20, 2014 10:54 PM |
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I'm pretty sure a criminal charge will be levied on that. It's a pretty serious neglicence case.
And it's common knowledge not to move people whose neck could be hurt.
Plus a pillow, wtf. Like, what was going on in his mind? How is that useful in any way?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 20, 2014 10:57 PM |
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Idk, if I were to die by the road-side it would be marginally better if I had a pillow under my head. (it would look more peaceful)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted April 20, 2014 11:07 PM |
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I don't like these type of discussions. Frankly I don't care for them.
This is my statement.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 20, 2014 11:08 PM |
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And we will carve it to an obelisk.
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted April 20, 2014 11:24 PM |
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And for all posterity men will wonder from all corners of the world pondering on its message. Did he ever have an intention or did he not?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 20, 2014 11:30 PM |
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Did u knew that in some easter cultures if u save someones life u became responsible for her?
When ur decisions affect someone else's life u r responsible, at least in some kind karmic sense.
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted April 20, 2014 11:33 PM |
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I've heard of the opposite. That when you save someones life they owe you. Obviously.
But no, I haven't heard of this. Maybe that's part of the reason why in some cases chinese people judge those who have hurt others in attempts to help them so harshly. Or why some choose to exploit samaritans with false accusations in those regions.
Where can I read more about this?
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 21, 2014 12:58 AM |
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Aron said:
Where can I read more about this?
I'm terribly sorry but I have no ideia. My antropology teacher talked about it in the classroom 20 years ago. I eard it in other places namely TV series and Emilio Salgari's novels but I can't quote reliable sources.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 21, 2014 03:03 AM |
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artu said:
And we will carve it into an obelisk.
lol. 
and, fixed. 
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 21, 2014 11:17 AM |
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We have something like involuntuary manslaughter in Sweden too and in a rather mild case like this, I'd expect the perpetrator to get a fine. Ethically, I think outcomes are more important than intentions since you always know what an outcome is (like someone died), but you never truly know a person's intentions.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 21, 2014 03:07 PM |
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Tsar-Ivor said:
The fact of the matter is that he directly caused the death of the victim, therefore he is guilty of second degree murder, i.e manslaughter.
he wasn't responsible for the accident. is that the accident which killed that guy, or simply the fact of moving his head?
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seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 21, 2014 03:08 PM |
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@artu
He should get a prison sentence for being stupid enough to take a victim inside his car and also be given the internet darwin award for ruining his life.
If he really wanted to be friendly, call the ambulance at best anonymously or ignore the victom. Really, whats the point of aiding a stranger? Empathy?
You are making yourself a suspect, wasting your time and possibly becoming the target of other people if you are dealing with crime.
The worst is that it could have been a setup to mob or kill would be helpers.
You can talk about morality all you want but his actions were extraordinarily stupid.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 21, 2014 03:13 PM |
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Edited by artu at 15:15, 21 Apr 2014.
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He didn't take him in his car, he took the pillow out of the car and put it under his head.
But yes, there are highway gangs who set up traps like that. The police keeps warning about them by sending SMS messages. They usually leave a stroller or even a baby by the road side, especially for women drivers to stop.
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seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 21, 2014 03:22 PM |
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artu said:
He didn't take him in his car, he took the pillow out of the car and put it under his head.
But yes, there are highway gangs who set up traps like that. The police keeps warning about them by sending SMS messages. They usually leave a stroller or even a baby by the road side, especially for women drivers to stop.
Still dumb. Anything but calling the ambulence is stupid, especially in areas you can get robbed or murdered.
Maybe it would not be fair if he got into jail for trying to help, but fine should be there for being stupid enough to do what he did.
Really, calling the ambulance is the most he could have done. Even performing CPR is too much, especially while driving.
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Aron
Known Hero
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posted April 21, 2014 03:23 PM |
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Yeah I saw a vide of this once. Then a bunch of guys jump out, one of them has a chainsaw and they want your backpack and your liver.
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