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| Thread: Luck, Does it exist? | |
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Herry
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
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posted May 06, 2014 01:45 PM |
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Luck, Does it exist?
I personally think that there is no thing such as "Luck" since every event of your life is based on another, let's have an example:
You go to a store to do some shopping, you, however, find it closed. that isn't your 'Luck', since this store's owner has things to do, nothing in life is ever random, don't you think?
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 06, 2014 01:53 PM |
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So the suggestion is that luck doesn't exist, because the world is based on causality, hence it's deterministic?
There's randomness, but the randomness at quantum level evens out at the macroscopic level which is the world we experience, so it shouldn't be very relevant. Yet I've a feeling it's something which would have, and may still, come up in this thread.
What I think is more relevant is if we look at the person who goes to the store, what does he know and what can he know?
If he's no way to determine that the shop keeper would be out, then it might not be truly "by chance" the shop keeper wasn't there, but the omniscient (all knowing) world view is of little use to the person in question. Since he's no way to determine this day and time, the day he choose to go to the shop, should be any different from any other, then it's indeed bad luck that the shop keeper was out.
Therefore, it's my opinion that it's not based on a random vs. deterministic world, it's based on realistic expectations. E.g. you're not unlucky if you expect to jump to the moon and fail.
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Living time backwards
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 06, 2014 02:23 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 14:33, 06 May 2014.
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This is quite a good question Herry. I'm proud of you.
Well my take on this is that luck, in the sense of chance, actually exists. I don't think that your example is conclusive enough, as someone might argue that it was not really "luck", but a sequence of events that led to that result.
If you want to emphasis the idea of chance, you should use a more conceptual example. One that doesn't have a sequence of events before it that favor one end or another. e.g: A program that has to chose between A or B, when the chance of each to be chosen is 50%. There is not deterministic pre-event to determine the outcome of this event, therefore it is just chance.
Why is it important to give a good example. Because usually when you discuss with a person on such subjects, they tend to try and dismiss your example, rather than debate the concept.
For instance, you might think that flipping a coin is as good as my example above, right? Wrong. Because one might argue that if you knew how high that coin rotated into the air, how many times, the friction with the air, and all other forces that are at play, you could establish with a 100% accuracy the outcome. Therefore, determinism.
So it's important to focus on the concept, the idea, rather than on the example, which can even be flawed.
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Herry
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
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posted May 06, 2014 04:19 PM |
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Edited by Herry at 16:21, 06 May 2014.
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@Ohforfsake:
I respect your opinion, but i was talking in a more "general" point of view, not the view of one person, more like a camera's point of view, but it's my fault i didn't explain properly, but again, i had to go to school. through, let's take another example like stevie said:
Let's suppose you are throwing a rock and you want it to hit a certain target, it doesn't depend on chance/luck, as the force used to throw the rock, gravitational force, wind's speed and direction, and the rock's direction. still not random. no matter how much examples you use, you won't get luck.
@Stevie:
if you thought you could frustate me with your program example, i'm happy to tell you luck itself is not random, the 50% chance in fact IS a factor, and the other is what the machine chooses.
edit: even if your example proves that it's luck-dependant, that only exists in a machine, and where was this thread posted? in a forum that talks about REAL LIFE.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 06, 2014 04:23 PM |
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You may be right from an omniscient world view, but I can't see how that matters, since no one is all knowing? People have their own perspective and from that limited amount of information, "nothing" is certain.
Do you rather want to discuss determinism in stead of luck?
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Living time backwards
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Herry
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
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posted May 06, 2014 04:25 PM |
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you maybe right, but "nothing is true, everything is permitted, - a quote from assassin's creed."
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 06, 2014 04:31 PM |
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FYI, we had a thread on this topic a few years back, which you might find interesting.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 06, 2014 04:35 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 16:40, 06 May 2014.
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Herry said:
@Stevie:
if you thought you could frustate me with your program example, i'm happy to tell you luck itself is not random, the 50% chance in fact IS a factor, and the other is what the machine chooses.
edit: even if your example proves that it's luck-dependant, that only exists in a machine, and where was this thread posted? in a forum that talks about REAL LIFE.
Is 50% a deterministic factor? Why? Does it determine A or B?
Machines are real life.
Edit: And how did you determine luck is not random?
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Herry
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
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posted May 06, 2014 04:39 PM |
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Edited by Herry at 16:42, 06 May 2014.
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thanks, but i want to ask something: why does humans almost create a legend or something for things they don't know, maybe even words, i mean luck was a word made to explain the ..... i don't know how to explain it as it does to itself, while luck DOES NOT explain these events, and these events are NOT random. 2 words exist while refering to something that doesn't exist, funny if you ask me.
machines are "from" real life, and how do you call these things real life? example: you can make the physics of a game whatever you want. and a program doesn't match real life, real life doesn't contain things exactly as you want them, you can't control it, while a program is what you want and you can control it.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 06, 2014 04:46 PM |
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I used a "machine" in my example because it's neutral to the choices. If I were to use a "human", one would argue that he might like vocals over consonants, or something like that.
How does designing a program to chose between A or B with a 50% chance to chose whichever determine which is chosen?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 06, 2014 05:16 PM |
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@ Herry
Your "camera perspective" isn't existing in the real world - which is, you say, what we are working in.
There simply IS NO omniscient perspective we know of.
Therefore ALL perspectives are subjective.
"Luck" could be defined as a positive outcome, occurrence or result AGAINST the odds from a subjective, limited point of view.
ODDS, however, are a pretty solid thing. If you win the lottery, it's luck, because it's simply against the odds, and massively so.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 06, 2014 05:26 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
@ Herry
Your "camera perspective" isn't existing in the real world - which is, you say, what we are working in.
There simply IS NO omniscient perspective we know of.
Therefore ALL perspectives are subjective.
"Luck" could be defined as a positive outcome, occurrence or result AGAINST the odds from a subjective, limited point of view.
ODDS, however, are a pretty solid thing. If you win the lottery, it's luck, because it's simply against the odds, and massively so.
Keep in mind that this post is also a subjective perspective, Herry. 
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