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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: 9/11 - Ten Years Later
Thread: 9/11 - Ten Years Later [ This thread is 11 pages long: (1) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ]
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted September 11, 2011 01:07 AM

9/11 - Ten Years Later

It's just about the tenth anniversary of the World Trade Center bombing.  

Let's talk about what you remember from that day, and how you think the world has changed since then.  In retrospect, did the terror attack solve anything for the terrorists?  Was the US retaliation justified?  And where do we go from here?
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gnomes2169
gnomes2169


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted September 11, 2011 01:23 AM

I remember waiting to get ready to go to school when my mother turned the news on. I saw the second plane smash into the tower, smoke rising from the buildings and thought that this was happening in somewhere else, Europe or something, and I remember that sinking feeling of dread as I realized that this was happening in the United States.

It was warranted to attack the people directly responsible, but that isn't what we did. What happened was... wrong. The only thing we can do is live with the consequences of what has happened. We can only deal with this the best we can.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 11, 2011 06:17 AM

In my opinion the terrorists succeeded in every imaginable way, drawing the US into long and protracted wars that not only cripple the US economics by rasing the state debt to insane heights, but make sure there is no shortage of people, governments and economic powers so pissed about that, they will support anti-US activities.

The US behaved like in a Western, demanding culprits to be brought to justice, no matter the costs.

In a time, when the most powerful nation in the world would have needed a level-headed leadership most, that leadership proved to be incompetent.

That day has really been a sad one in every respect.

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mr. Sandman
posted September 11, 2011 06:42 AM
Edited by blizzardboy at 07:26, 11 Sep 2011.

I was in school, and I first heard about it in between classes when my friend in the hallway was like "Dude, the World Trade Towers blew up", and I was like "lul wut?".

Most of the classes that day the teacher decided to turn on the TV so we could watch the news, or they talked about it for a some minutes at the beginning of class, except for the final period of the day, my sexy and ditzy Spanish teacher - who had just started that year - did the class without mentioning anything ; she was always so methodical. Overall my reaction was an irreverent one. I found the entire morning and afternoon watching about it to be an excitement to an otherwise boring day. While there were some emotions of concern, I would say they were shadowed.

Supposedly Osama's goal was to get U.S. bases out of Saudi Arabia. In that respect it technically didn't succeed, though on a larger scale, the worst damage by far didn't happen on 9/11, but rather from the aftermath of having hawk politicians spur the country into 2 wars. 2 massive skyscrapers going down was billions of dollars in damage and billions more from the disruptions the attack caused, but in the big scheme of the economy, billions of dollars is a brief headache and nothing more. Hundreds of billions in anti-terrorist military operations that are in many ways entirely counterproductive is more significant. I almost wish the people that babble on about the U.S. invading for financial gain and getting tons of free oil in Iraq were actually correct. Some sweet pillaged loot from the impoverished Iraqis would be kind of nice.
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted September 11, 2011 10:19 AM

Quote:
In my opinion the terrorists succeeded in every imaginable way, drawing the US into long and protracted wars that not only cripple the US economics by rasing the state debt to insane heights, but make sure there is no shortage of people, governments and economic powers so pissed about that, they will support anti-US activities.


I agree with this. Even though Osama was finally executed a few years later, the terrorists succeeded into plunging the world into chaos and fear, bringing unnecessary wars and a lot of anti-US attitude in the world (more than there already was). I am not sure if the wars accomplished anything vital. Afghanistan was a good move, I believe, and from what I understand almost all terrorist activity there has been cleansed, but Iraq was in most parts a failure - especially the long term campaign with US staying there and losing popularity and people every day, unnecessarily. If they overthrown Hussein then left with most of their forces granting administrative help, mostly - it would be an entirely different story.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Ω Sunt lacrimae rerum Ω
posted September 11, 2011 10:24 AM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 10:36, 11 Sep 2011.

I don't recall my where-abouts when the double towers were hit, but it's results were evident. And no, 'murder' doesn't justify more muder, America only got attacked because the security was incompetent and not because there are terrorists out to get them, which there are many, for such an oppertunity .

So Americas approach to this incident was to leave a bigger hole in another country, then the one that was done to them, Credit to these geniuses they succeeded
--Iraq, Documented Civilian Deaths from violence-102,417,

--3268 (betwen 05-08)Afghan civilians killed, (couldn't find an overall for some reason )


My condolences to the families who had to suffer through 9/11, and and those who did so through 10 years of hell. (and counting....)
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Meroe
Meroe


Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
posted September 11, 2011 10:30 AM

I remember this vividly.  I was at school and it was just after lunch break.  Basically everything stopped and the teachers turned on the tv's - for some strange reason I guess they thought we should watch it, despite our ages.  I can picture it like it was yesterday.  I think it was the first time I had ever sat in stunned silence with my classmates (those who didn't really get what was being shown were allowed outside).  The images of people throwing themselves out of the towers will never leave me.  What went through my mind then, as it does now, was the horror and desperation they must have felt.


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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted September 11, 2011 12:34 PM

To be honest, I'm getting sick of "remembering" this due to the several days long media theatro every year. Sure, it's a tragedy. In a random country in Central Africa or in some of the "pacified" countries in the Middle East you get the same amount of violent deaths every month but "somehow" this does not get propagated to the entire world like a grand PR campaign for empathy or whatever. In the eyes of a non-American this looks like "the lives of the Americans is worth more than the lives of the other people". I know that most of the Americans here hardly share such point of view but this is how it looks like, intentional or not.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 11, 2011 12:49 PM

Well, you can't ignore a tragedy because same thing is happening at a normal rate elsewhere. And Americans have the right to praise American lives more than African lives, is natural. Does not mean that what's going in Africa is less shocking. But when a tragedy strike USA, they seem to handle it better than Africans, which always put the blame on others while continuing butchering each other in the most barbaric way.
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DagothGares
DagothGares


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
posted September 11, 2011 12:58 PM
Edited by DagothGares at 12:58, 11 Sep 2011.

Was 9, held a moment of silence in class, kind of failed. No one got what happened, really, neither did I. It shocked America to actually be targeted at a non-military base for once in their history. I don't think it changed the world. It changed America, arguably the sole remaining superpower in the world and it caused wars, which really are things I thought we'd have grown out of, since world war II, but I think it really is a minor event in the grander scheme of things, history will remember it as a trigger maybe and that's it (the drop that made the bucket overflow and nothing else). I honestly don't think it changed the world that much.

I think Steve Jobs, Al Gore or Bill Gates changed the world more than 9/11 did, really.
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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 11, 2011 01:39 PM

I was home playing Heroes of Might and Magic 3. Saw the news about the hit, was like: "WTC got hit, ok." Soon after: "WTC got hit again, lol, wtf? AWESOME!" and went on to play H3 as usual. Couldn't have cared less since it didn't concern me.

As most have pointed out it was a rather good excuse for going on a world wide war campaign. Without WTC crashes we wouldn't be seeing Afghanistan like it is now. Iraq would probably have rebelled last winter but I think US would have gone there regardless.

I don't see any relation with WTC to where we are going from here. We are going towards uncertain future which might or might not lead to an economic crisis. The last one was just barely avoided but if EU(Spain) falls we're screwed. Also if the price of food keeps going up this fast there will be a lot more cases like Egypt.
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Shyranis
Shyranis

Hero of Order
posted September 11, 2011 01:50 PM
Edited by Shyranis at 14:14, 11 Sep 2011.

One of my kid's birthdays is tomorrow...

Also I was in school, preparing for the day when the TVs were on in the cafeteria. I saw the second tower get it, the news before that point wasn't sure if it was a terrible accident or not at that time.


Osama lured the US into his trap, passions ran too high to see that the US would overstep its bounds. So it ran up the largest debt ever seen to that time. The only government that beat it is the current US administration that is continuing to make the same stupid mistakes.

The invasion of Afghanistan as far a I understand was completely justified at the time as they were hiding Osama Bin Laden at the time and refused to turn him over. However it's drawn out far too long as well and instead of the US actually taking the time to clean everything up, they left it to a few allies to keep the country stable until they came back to finish the job (still waiting on that).

The reason the US military ran off, to stage an illegal war:

1). The Invasion of Iraq – In 2004 UN Secretary General Kofi Annan declared the US invasion of Iraq, “The US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter.” The invasion was also in violation of the Nuremberg Charter. (Both have been ratified by the US, meaning the war was against the wises of Congress as well as International law)

2). Mass Murder in Iraq – If the war was illegal, then the deaths that resulted from the US invasion were acts of murder.

3). GITMO and Prisoner Abuse- The contrived notion of enemy combatants, they illogically claimed that Geneva Convention does not apply to enemy combatants. This opened the door to wide range of abuses of detainees.

4). Torture- This is the easiest charge to prove against Bush administration officials Under US law and the Geneva Conventions torture is a war crime. The Bush administration has not only admitted to torturing people, but they have defended and praised torture as a vital national security tool, even though the evidence suggests that no reliable intelligence was ever acquired through torture.

5). The Obama administration claimed it would close GITMO, ratchet down the wars and focus on the economy. Like all American politicians that have a shot at President, this was a lie. Also a war was started with Libya, without congressional approval even (though the house would approve harsher measures if actually asked), making it another illegal war. (Though only illegal in the US, not internationally)


The world doesn't work like an action movie, you can't just kick somebody's butt and move on because chances are you're probably killing the wrong people and causing more people to hate you that would either have liked you or been indifferent.

It says a lot that so many more countries loved the US even during the Cold War, when the world was practically divided in two "defensively".


American people are fine and dandy, but the American government has been messed for a long time.
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Markkur
Markkur


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Onward through the fog!
posted September 11, 2011 02:43 PM

This might sound a little hard-hearted but the U.S. (and anyone else) needs to get over this. 10 Years and its playing in the media like a new movie release?

Death is Death and there is no one person's death that matters more than any other person's. Yes, it's was a tragedy and yes it changed the world and all that stuff, but why must it be relived to the point; folks try to generate the same feelings they had the day it happened? Seems madness to me. Isn't that what we should be doing with good-stuff?

I remember when I heard that Arabs in the mid-east still gather in places to listen to a man play a one-string instrument while he or someone else recites various tales from the Crusades. (1088-1291)
At the time when I heard this I thought wth?, these folks every year are reciting this and keeping the flames burning brightly; no wonder their hatred of the West is such a powerful mantra. 10 years later, I realize it was a glimpse of all mankind it seems and I just didn't know it then.

I have lost several people and I'm sure many here have. What if we "all" contined to mourn, 10 years and beyond, for "everyone" we've lost?  I mourn the loss of my parents and many, many others but not in this fashion and I focus on the good stuff to keep it fresh in my heart. Remembering the Police, the Fire-fighters and many others that day for true Heroism, <imo> at this time, activities of remembrance, should be done by folks that knew them or had contact with them, either alone or in their own support groups. I just don't see the sense that this should be a National day, a decade later. When do citizens have the moral right/obligation to...move on?
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Ω Sunt lacrimae rerum Ω
posted September 11, 2011 02:52 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 14:55, 11 Sep 2011.

@Markhur
Quote:
I remember when I heard that Arabs in the mid-east still gather in places to listen to a man play a one-string instrument while he or someone else recites various tales from the Crusades. (1088-1291)


I believe it's important to know where your people come from and where they're headed. Then again I don't .

@Shyranis,
Quote:
fine and dandy

I <3 this phrase .



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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mr. Sandman
posted September 11, 2011 03:31 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 15:33, 11 Sep 2011.

It's really big in the news this year because it's the 10th anniversary, as opposed to the 7th or 16th or something, and also because it has been a boring news week. If you don't like it being on the front page, then cause a tsunami or something.
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Tsar-Ivor
Tsar-Ivor


Legendary Hero
Ω Sunt lacrimae rerum Ω
posted September 11, 2011 03:39 PM
Edited by Tsar-Ivor at 15:44, 11 Sep 2011.

Causing Tsunamis is expensive , but sure.

Also it's big news because they're expecting a terrorist attack within the day.

Edit: also it seems I've been busy these last 24hrs, I'm restricted to the VW for the duration of the day, so don't provoke a reply please
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DarkShadow
DarkShadow


Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
posted September 11, 2011 03:40 PM

Quote:
Causing Tsunamis is expensive , but sure.


Quote:
Also it's big news because they're expecting a terrorist attack within the day.


IVOR!!!!!
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Markkur
Markkur


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Onward through the fog!
posted September 11, 2011 03:44 PM
Edited by markkur at 16:11, 11 Sep 2011.

@bb
Quote:
If you don't like it being on the front page, then cause a tsunami or something.


Yeah right, I'm in control.

Edit=

Well, the more I thought about it, I decided i should share the rest of what I was thinking this morning.

First-off. The Headlines came to me, I did not seek them. Secondly after posting my first in this thread, when I logged off, there it was again.

Anyway, moving on to a different aspect of this.

What about those that "really suffered loss that day" and want/desire/need to get past it?

When I re-read my own writings of a tragedy 20 years ago, those words took me back there as if I had not lived a day since. Anyone that has done this should know of what I am speaking. I can only imagine how hard it must be for many of those familes and friends with the way the media has grabbed this every year since. How healthy can this be? Read any book/guide about grief/loss and it will most-likely guide you to a different path for closure.





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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 11, 2011 03:51 PM

apart from USA itself, I don't know who could trigger a tsunami.

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Shyranis
Shyranis

Hero of Order
posted September 11, 2011 04:18 PM

An ACLU report released to coincide with the 10th anniversary of 9/11 warns that a decade after the attacks, the United States is at risk of enshrining a permanent state of emergency in which core values must be subordinated to ever-expanding claims of national security.

The report, entitled, "A Call to Courage: Reclaiming Our Liberties Ten Years after 9/11," explores how sacrificing America's values – including justice, individual liberty, and the rule of law – ultimately undermines safety.


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