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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: MMH7 Q&A Announcement
Thread: MMH7 Q&A Announcement This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 14, 2014 12:07 PM

Avonu said:
Nelgirith said:
Even though, the problems I listed were from the H2 and H3 RMGs.

Nice to know after all these years that HoMM2 has a RMG.

H2 has a RMG included in the map editor

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 14, 2014 12:15 PM

Maurice said:
In fact, such an approach could already introduce (some) of the creatures of those two factions in the core game as neutrals or something like that, with the corresponding faction itself introduced later on.

No, I disagree, I don't want to see creatures from any faction lineup as neutrals in release game. They make expansion factions work in a weird way.

Neutrals have to be new creatures, not related to any faction. Hence the name.
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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted August 14, 2014 12:20 PM

Quote:

That's why I said that if I had to choose the RMG over sim turns, then the RMG would have to be absolutely flawless ! Sim turns is imo a more important feature from a multiplayer point of view since what killed H5 (pre sim-turns)/H6 skirmish games was the duration of the games.

If the map editor is really that good then player-made maps will be flourishing and the RMG will be a non-issue or a feature that can be added later to the game.


I understand how Sim turns are important for multiplayer however it wasn't the lack of sim turn in either H5 or H6 that killed multiplayer. For H5 it was the total lack of game balance pre TotE, hell even after TotE the balance was pretty bad (runes for fortress and rage for stronghold... how did they ever think to properly balance THAT?)
As for H6, well the game was pretty crap allaround but it's main problem was how long each battle took, makeing each turn take a lot longer time if you wanted to fight your battles.

As for myself, I almost exclusively played random maps in H3 multiplayer. I didn't like that the fact how well you know the map decided the game. I understand custom made maps are great for small/medium size games but anything larger and it takes away the replayability.

Other turnbased strategy games have also massivley benefitted from map generators. The Civilization series has gained near infinate replayability from it(I shpuld know, since civ4 is probably the only game i've sunk more hours into than H3.)

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 14, 2014 12:25 PM
Edited by Stevie at 12:25, 14 Aug 2014.

I'm in disbelief at how many people here are ready to accept a compromise. I for one want BOTH rmg AND sim turns. If one of the comes at the other's expense then the devs already failed.

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LucPatenaude
LucPatenaude


Famous Hero
Owning all 7 Heroes games
posted August 14, 2014 03:22 PM

To clear things up, the H5 RMG is better in the sense that...

...in H3 this problem happened, a lot: Strong Neutral armies right at the front gate of your village. So, stuck at not exploring nor creeping the territory for both resources and artifacts. Plus, there was tons of:
roads that lead to nowhere but, to the island's beach with no shipyard in sight. Heroes 5 v.3.1's RMG does not have this bunch of editor screw-ups(at least for in my perspective and, overall use of it for the past 7 years).

What I liked about the Heroes 5 RMG was(and still is): All you needed is to choose the size of the map. If you chose small and archipaleago(with water) you had multiple reaction from the Generator according to the difficulty of the map that you chose in the main window of the game. If you chose without underground and, you are the one chosing the number of  players to be generated onto that small map, you were stuck with a 4 factions maximum. I did not choose the number of players most of the time but, still told it to put water or islands and, suddenly, the generator made 8 very small islands with 8 villages and 8 players(sometimes I had surprises with the quantity of players + had the unexpected pleasure of finding neutral villages were put on some of those islands. A Heroic map making, it is highly possible of no gold mines to be put on the map or, it puts 6 or 7 players on that specific map and, generates an island with no factions onto it but, with upto 6 gold mines protected by relatively strong neutral armies.

If you do not chose to be experimental with all the options given to you via the RMG, you do not know half of its abilities at generating really challenging maps.

Good day to you all.


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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 14, 2014 03:25 PM

Stevie said:
I'm in disbelief at how many people here are ready to accept a compromise. I for one want BOTH rmg AND sim turns. If one of the comes at the other's expense then the devs already failed.


agreed

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 14, 2014 06:27 PM

The only RMG I have experience with was the H3 one, and that is certainly something I can live without without ever missing it one second. Maps were virtually unplayable, and why would I ever waste time on some crappy random map when there were huge amounts of great fan-made maps. So as long as game comes with a good mapmaking tool for players, I won't miss RMG.

I never play multiplayer, but I can certainly understand why this would be an important feature for people who do. So that would definitely be top priority of the two in my oppinion.
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 14, 2014 08:28 PM

RMG isn't a must if we have a proper map editor, imo.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 15, 2014 09:47 AM

Storm-Giant said:
Maurice said:
In fact, such an approach could already introduce (some) of the creatures of those two factions in the core game as neutrals or something like that, with the corresponding faction itself introduced later on.

No, I disagree, I don't want to see creatures from any faction lineup as neutrals in release game. They make expansion factions work in a weird way.

Neutrals have to be new creatures, not related to any faction. Hence the name.


Ahh, my mistake for naming them "neutrals". I didn't mean in the sense of neutrals that don't belong to any factions, but rather as guards for resources and treasures and such - just like you have with creatures of all other (existing) factions.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2014 12:32 PM

I see. That sounds more reasonable, and it could work. But we also need true neutrals ingame, I wouldn't trade one for the others!
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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 15, 2014 12:47 PM

I always liked the possibility to have "neutrals" linked to a faction (like in H4) where you could use an alternate unit without impacting the morale of your troops should you get enough of them by a joining stack or through diplomacy or dwellings, etc...

But I also like true neutrals !

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 15, 2014 12:54 PM

Nelgirith said:
I always liked the possibility to have "neutrals" linked to a faction (like in H4) where you could use an alternate unit without impacting the morale of your troops should you get enough of them by a joining stack or through diplomacy or dwellings, etc...

But I also like true neutrals !

But that's not what Maurice is suggesting. H4 neutrals were actually a nice addition to the game, I hope we see them again as they can also help to make campaign (and certain scenarios) more interesting by giving  faction-neutrals to a player and have a slighty different lineup.

As I see it, Maurice idea is to put a few creatures from factions not featured in game release, but not as neutrals, but as part of the faction they belong.

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted August 15, 2014 01:42 PM
Edited by fuChris at 13:54, 15 Aug 2014.

Faction linked neutrals would be great, but lets be realistic here. Ubi are cheapskates. They would rather cut their own arms off than spend an extra cent on developing extra creatures. The best we can hope for is 4 elementals and 2-3 completley random neutrals if we are lucky.

What I'm more concerned about is the balance of good vc evil creatures. Sofar the only evil creatures come from necro. Even if in the second poll we get Dungeon or Inferno, evil factions will still be outmached 4 to 2. It would be extra weird if the second chosen faction would be sanctuary further skewing the ratio. In that sense I would have preferred Fortress to Sylvan becouse they could atleast be considered neutrals.

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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted August 15, 2014 01:59 PM

Storm-Giant said:

As I see it, Maurice idea is to put a few creatures from factions not featured in game release, but not as neutrals, but as part of the faction they belong.


This would be a great option to include factions in the storyline that are not (yet) playable. I was really disappointed when the Wizard in the Savage Seas DLC turned out to be a stronghold hero. That just did not feel right.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 15, 2014 02:16 PM

Storm-Giant said:
As I see it, Maurice idea is to put a few creatures from factions not featured in game release, but not as neutrals, but as part of the faction they belong.


Yes, this is what I mean. For instance, if Fortress doesn't make it in the game (due to Sylvan winning the public vote), then I'd still like to see units from the Fortress faction as "wild" (is that better than "neutral"? ) guardians. I.e., they belong to Fortress, which is not yet ingame, but they don't belong to any active player on the map.

Because I do expect the two factions that will lose the vote to end up in an expansion anyway.

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Pekao
Pekao

Tavern Dweller
posted August 16, 2014 02:45 PM

Maurice said:
Storm-Giant said:
As I see it, Maurice idea is to put a few creatures from factions not featured in game release, but not as neutrals, but as part of the faction they belong.


Yes, this is what I mean. For instance, if Fortress doesn't make it in the game (due to Sylvan winning the public vote), then I'd still like to see units from the Fortress faction as "wild" (is that better than "neutral"? ) guardians. I.e., they belong to Fortress, which is not yet ingame, but they don't belong to any active player on the map.

Because I do expect the two factions that will lose the vote to end up in an expansion anyway.


If they end up adding all the 9 factions of the might and magic universe the game will be already worth buying, but sadly i heard that the factions that lost the voting won't come as dlc's... If that happens it will be the worst decision ever from Ubisoft, we all want the highest number of factions possible
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Thanir
Thanir


Adventuring Hero
posted August 16, 2014 03:02 PM

Pekao said:
If they end up adding all the 9 factions of the might and magic universe the game will be already worth buying, but sadly i heard that the factions that lost the voting won't come as dlc's... If that happens it will be the worst decision ever from Ubisoft, we all want the highest number of factions possible


They only said they won't come in a DLC on launch. But that doesn't mean we won't get any of the other faction in an Addon/Expansion if the basic game sells well enough.

Though I agree with you, finally having all 9 of the current factions in one Heroes game would be great. This adds so much replay value to the game because of the factions itself and all the associated creatures, heroes and even adventure map buildings that come with a new faction.
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Understanding is a three-edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.

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itwasntme
itwasntme


Hired Hero
#tigerblood
posted August 18, 2014 08:17 PM

Thanks Elvin!  I'm pretty excited so far with the decisions they've made.  I'm allowing myself to hope for a true heroes game this time.  I hated the skill and magic selection in H6, it was so bland, so the skill wheel and mage guilds are a welcome return.  I also like the return of the varied resources, I don't feel like dragon crystals helped the economy at all and only removed flavour.

I'm still undecided on the three-tiered creature system.  It was ok.  I'm willing to wait and see how they balance it.

I don't feel strongly about a random map generator.  It's nice to have, but they community is so good at creating interesting and strategically sound maps that I never played the random maps.  I do feel that simul turns is key to having a multiplayer community.  No-one wants to spend half the game doing nothing but waiting.   If we had to choose my vote would be simul turns, but hopefully they can do both.  

Would like to see all the factions in the game but I would place more importance on having a few well balanced and flavorful factions rather than many carbon copies.  Factions can always be added in expansions once they see how the initial ones work.  It's better to have the community test the factions in gameplay and balance from there, internal testing is so limited and the playtesters are never as good as the average active community members.  

All in all I'm very excited by the news.  Optimistic about the future of the series, hopefully these guys can give us something to rival H3.

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cleglaw
cleglaw


Famous Hero
posted September 16, 2014 02:17 PM
Edited by cleglaw at 14:21, 16 Sep 2014.

It would be epic if H7 can bring a good sim turn system for multiplayer.

We are living in a multiplayer heavy gaming world, and even like oldfan myself would love to get hands on such option. Its boring to wait every turn, this should be solved if we want a solid-social experience. I want my friends to buy H7 and i want to play with them.

It is time.


BUT, i dont want to choose between RMG and sim turns. These both should exist together in the game. This is essential. Lets hope they have enough money&time to do this. Im sure they will be well rewarded with good sales and fame if they succeed.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 17, 2014 10:20 AM

Meanwhile the Q&A is in progress, I'll post the answers as soon as I have them.
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