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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted November 10, 2014 06:25 PM |
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My Necro line-up - V2...
That's my updated Necropolis line-up. The faction should maintain its general feel- slow, slightly weaker units with powerful debuff and defensive abilities (namely undead immunities as well as stuff like incorporeality) and numbers to compensate. Necromancy works like in H5 and older games, though maybe with perks you can later raise creatures other than Skeletons. Another note- maybe the default Necropolis faction this time should be Sandro's Cult of the Void (opposed to the Spider Cult), marking them as more evil and making Sandro their main campaign hero. This should be similar to making the Wolf Duchy the default Haven faction, and making Griffins neutrals/campaign-only units.
Core
Skeleton/Crypt Guard- The familiar Skeletons, carrying spears (upgrade is armored and carries a longspear and a tower shield). Overall great melee units (similar to H3's Skeletons) with ranged resistance, upgrade perhaps gets a 2-hex attack possibility (similar to H4's Pikemen) or some anti-cavalry passive.
Wight/Mummy- Hollowed-out corpses filled with crawling insects, whom they can spit as a suitably disgusting ranged attack which also carries some debuff. They are preserved in bogs, similar to the mummies found in Europe (which also explains the insects).
Vengeful Shade/Void Shade- Ghosts is a general name for all incorporeal undead (meaning there could also be ghost heroes etc). Shades are formed from the spirits of vengeful dead, who in their wrath and hatred lose most sentient thoughts and past personality to become bringers of death. Incorporeal, flying mana-drainers.
Elite
Vampire/Vampire Lord- H3-style look. Flying life-drainers with no retaliation.
Lich/Master Lich- A return to the classical look and playstyle- skeletal Liches with death cloud, upgrade casts offensive Dark spells.
Grave Maiden/Banshee- Fills the Lammasu's role. Incorporeal (or a slightly lesser ability) fliers who possess a morale-reducing attack, perhaps even an area attack (as they utilize their screams as a sonic weapon). Appear as incorporeal women in bloodstained white gowns, their faces covered by long black hair (though when they scream, the hair recedes to reveal a monstrous, withered face and their mouths stretch to an impossible size).
Champion
Elder One/Eternal One- Someone suggested Cthulhu, and I quite like the combination of undead and eldritch horrors which fits Ashan's Necropolis' theme as a mystery cult- especially if we choose the Void Cult for the default Necropolis factions. And so, these should be nightmarish creatures from Asha's realm or even beyond, from the Void itself- perhaps born of her nightmares or something like this, the devourers of stray souls- or all these options. Basically- just give the Elder Ones a twisted appearance involving multiple eyes, mouths wings and very possibly spider-like appendages. However, in practice they should play similar to Bone Dragons- fliers with powerful debuff abilities, though moderate combatants at best (but more powerful than Bone Dragons).
BTW- in campaign I would replace Elder Ones with Fate Weavers/Reapers or allow the Spider Cult Necromancers to recruit them, similar to Griffins for Haven (with higher variety between the forms, and the spider form being a melee saboteur as opposed to a ranged unit- only Academy should have a Champion shooter IMO).
Black Rider/Dread Knight- Powerful melee tanks, actually weak for Champion units (they are like a super-powerful Elite, but not quite real Champion material) though quite numerous and cheap and with a potential for massive damage. The lower the target's morale gets the higher damage they deal- forming great synergy with Banshees. Appear as hooded figures on ghostly horses carrying scythes, with the upgrade wearing more armor and carrying a badass-looking war scythe.
Warfare Units
Reanimator- As its name suggests, this is a mortal member of the Death Cult who can cast Raise Dead among other, more supportive Dark spells- but lacks the Lich's offensive power.
???
???
Opinions? BTW- I also want to fit Zombies in as a raisable cannon fodder unit, perhaps an affiliated neutral raisable through Necromancy or spells or something similar. And Namtarus/Fate Weavers should definately be a part of the campaign. I would definately add back some of the cut units as neutrals/campaign-specific units, like allowing Soulscar Dungeon for example to recruit/summon some Demons (ideally Imp, Cerberus, Succbusu/Incubus and Pitlord).
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rootsrocka
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 10, 2014 10:42 PM |
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My Necro line up (No green! Back to Haunted halloween style)
Core:
Skeleton/Skeleton Warrior - average speed. naked skeleton with sword. takes half damage from ranged attacks.
Upgrade has a shield and some armor for reducing melee dmg.
Walking dead/Zombie - Slow, tank.
When Zombie(upgrade) kills an enemy humanoid stack, a % of the stack becomes an undead zombiefied version of itself that attacks the nearest enemy stack.
Ghost/Spectre - Average speed flier. Incorporeal.
Upgrade has small % chance of adding ghosts to it's stack when it kills at least one humanoid creature in a stack.
Elite:
Vampire/Vampire Lord - Looks like the Dracula vampire from H2/H4. Flies in bat form. Life Drain. No Retaliation.
Upgrade passive ability: Compulsion. Enemies standing adjacent to Vampire Lord for more than 2 turns become under the vampire's (players) control for 1 turn.
Lich/Power Lich - Large shooter with death cloud attack. No range penalty. Upgrade can cast curses and raise skeletons from dead enemy stacks.
Spell book contains: Curse, Dispel, Slow, Sorrow.
Witch/High Witch - Powerful spell caster/hexer. Ranged attack that reduces luck. Range penalty. Low defense and Fire spell damage vulnerability.
Upgrade passive ability: Sisterhood. Only applicable if army contains more than one High Witch stack. When the active Witch stack casts a spell, the inactive Witch stack(s) simultaneously casts a random spell.
Spell book contains: Mass slow, Mass confusion, Mass decay/agony, Mass sorrow, Frenzy. All cast at Expert level.
Champion:
Black Knight/Death Knight - Large mounted creature with average speed. High damage/defense. Charge (damage increases with every tile walked to target). Attack causes Fear (creature does not retaliate, runs away)
Upgrade has aura that decreases morale. Double damage strike chance.
Giant Spider/Arach - Very fast large creature. Frightful aura reduces morale of adjacent creatures by 2. Poisonous. Leaves trail of web behind it that reduces movement by 1 for each tile of web crossed.
Upgrade activated ability: Cocoon. Attack cocoons enemy in web for 2 turns. Enemy cannot move, attack or retaliate. Friendly attacks do not remove the cocoon (works the same as H6 Time Stasis).
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted November 11, 2014 06:23 PM |
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I like zombies' ability, dude. However, I think ghosts should be removed. Too cliche and boring.
Death knights could work, but only if they are actually modelled as real undead knights, with rusty weapons, armor, monstrous apperance and so on, not some flashy neon green warcraft unit.
____________
What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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hycoo7
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 11, 2014 06:59 PM |
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My take on necropolis builds on the earlier parts of the series with some mixups. Builds on horrorstories and fear in general. Has a more urban feel than usual. The idea is having abilities that helps you win prolonged fights. I dont like too complex abilities as i wish heroes battles to be more like chess than h6... Names are not final 
Core
- Skeleton Warrior (the melee version we all love so much)
- Gorgoyle (flying, melee, construct, chance to petrify. Love the concept but make them more awesome/scary than before)
- Witch (walker, ranged, has some fear/horror spell. Classic look of an old hooded crone)
Elite
- Deadhound (walker, melee, spreads disease. Inspiration is the hound of baskerville story. Make it vicous, bloody,
boney and big)
- Vampire (the familiar abilities as before. Has the dracula look, BLAAH)
- Headless Rider (walker, melee, immune to mind spells, blind etc. Curses. Has his head in one hand and a bloody cleaver in the other. Looks less armored than a death knight but somewhat comperable)
Champion
- Reaper (teleporter, melee, gains attack power for each kill, has the death ability (like gorgon in h3). This guy is all about killing. A big skeleton in a black hoodie and a scythe (anyone read the discworld series? )).
- Lich King (walker, ranged, Death cloud attack)
Warmachines
- Reanimator. Reanmiates any undead on the field to fight for your side.
- Corpsethrower. Throws fallen enemy units that has a disease and negative morale in the area of impact. Requires fallen enemy unit.
- Skullapult. Throws skulls to break walls and ricochets to nearby enemies.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 11, 2014 09:56 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
I like zombies' ability, dude. However, I think ghosts should be removed. Too cliche and boring.
Death knights could work, but only if they are actually modelled as real undead knights, with rusty weapons, armor, monstrous apperance and so on, not some flashy neon green warcraft unit.
Boring might be the reason to remove Ghosts but that is just an opinion. On the other hand, the only thing I see more cliche than Ghosts are... well, Vampires, Skeletons, Zombies and Bone Dragons, pretty much all of them lol.
Now seriously, Ghosts are definitely cliche if you do them the way they were in H6, however there always are some really cool ideas, you can pretty much make something amazing out of everything with the right idea and implementation.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted November 11, 2014 10:43 PM |
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Stormcaller said:
I like zombies' ability, dude. However, I think ghosts should be removed. Too cliche and boring.
Death knights could work, but only if they are actually modelled as real undead knights, with rusty weapons, armor, monstrous apperance and so on, not some flashy neon green warcraft unit.
By that then literally every creature but the lamassu and the fate spinner should be removed though
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted November 11, 2014 11:53 PM |
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Opinion
I think ANY creature can be made interesting, based on design and abilities. Take my line-up, for example: in Core, while Skeletons are pretty traditional (but are relatively badass and serve as undead reflections of the Haven's Sentinels), Wights are a suitably disgusting variant of corporeal, Zombie-like undead (in a game with alternate upgrades I would make Zombie the base creature and Ghoul or Wight its alternative upgrade- either a skirmisher or a ranged unit) as well as a way to bring back Mummies without making them too Egyptian. Similarly, Shades are a Ghost variant, though they should appear more monstrous than simple incorporeal humans.
In Elite, Lich and Vampire should return traditional HOMM (though Vampire should look more similar to the cadaverous Nosferatu look- The Strain's Vampires are a good inspiration), while the Grave Maiden is like something from Japanese horror films a-la The Ring.
In the Champion tier, the Elder Ones bring eldritch horror into HOMM through the Void theme while fulfilling the same function like Bone Dragons, while Black Riders combine two fan-favored units- Black Knights and Wraiths.
So you see, even with traditional units (because think about it, there cannot be a Necropolis without Skeletons, Zombies/corporeal undead, Ghosts/incorporeal undead, Vampires and Liches/undead spellcasters- but the WAY they are handled is what makes the difference.
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jackson
Known Hero
Random Spirit Lover
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posted November 12, 2014 06:58 AM |
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You all got me thinking about Necro line-ups, so I'm here to contribute to the brainstorming.
Admittedly, I've been mainly thinking about the elites and champions - not so much the cores.
Core:
While I wasn't focusing on core units, and therefore didn't decide on them, I do kind of like the idea of having a very powerful ranged unit and a very powerful flyer in the elite tier, but no ranged or flyers at all in the core. Instead the core would focus on debuffs (and building numbers in the case of skeletons). For example, mummies could return with their attack cursing the enemy as well as their attack always killing at least one enemy. As another example, ghouls could return, and they could decrease the enemy's morale with each attack and cause damage over time. As for skeletons, I would prefer traditional, simple skeletons that are very cheap and very plentiful with no special abilities beyond basic undead characteristics. Though if something special must be done to them, I kind of like the idea of having skeletons riding some sort of large, vicious zombie canines. I'd rather not see ghosts in the line-up because I think they make such great neutrals.
Elite:
Lich - The sole ranged unit. Very powerful - very high damage. Attack creates death cloud. Skeletal, frightening look.
Vampire - The sole flyer. Very fast. Life-draining.
Dread Knight - High damage melee unit. Does more damage the lower the enemy's morale. Chance of luck/critical hit increases with every attack.
Champion:
Bone Giant - As a vague point of inspiration, I imagine a sort of Behemoth-like creature, made of bones, with long bony claws and long bony teeth and a huge, monstrous appearance. It can take down obstacles such as city walls with ease. It has an aura of terror that lowers nearby enemies' morale. I think this could be a welcome breath of fresh air, given the so-so history of the bone/ghost dragons in Heroes and the controversial Fate Spinner, as well as its portrayal of classical horror.
Wraith - Powerful caster. Dark, mysterious, and sinister appearance. I still like the idea of having a spell-caster champion.
Neutrals:
Ghosts! I think they're such a great neutral. Give them the classic ability of increasing their numbers with every unit they kill.
My own desires for the design:
-Please less green. A lot less.
-Please no spiders. I find spiders as a potential unit, no matter how big they are, so boring.
-Please create a darker and more sinister atmosphere. Please don't over-stylize the designs. And please don't be afraid to be a little more gruesome.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2014 08:50 AM |
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jackson said:
Bone Giant - As a vague point of inspiration, I imagine a sort of Behemoth-like creature, made of bones, with long bony claws and long bony teeth and a huge, monstrous appearance. It can take down obstacles such as city walls with ease. It has an aura of terror that lowers nearby enemies' morale. I think this could be a welcome breath of fresh air, given the so-so history of the bone/ghost dragons in Heroes and the controversial Fate Spinner, as well as its portrayal of classical horror.
I like this  With all the pleading for the return of the behemoth it would be funny to let him return in necropolis 
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted November 12, 2014 09:21 AM |
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Idea for the Bone Giant- dual forms
Maybe you could give the Bone Giant 2 forms- a hulking melee Behemoth-like form and a Bone Dragon flying form, with slightly different abilities. They could be explained lore-wise as powerful spirits animating stacks of bones, created by Necromancers through rituals performed at mass graves. They could possibly regenerate by absorbing/swallowing Skeletons.
Or just stick with my Elder One/Black Rider Champion choice...
BTW- I read it somewhere on this forum, the idea is not originally mine.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 12, 2014 09:44 AM |
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jackson said:
Elite:
Lich - The sole ranged unit. Very powerful - very high damage. Attack creates death cloud. Skeletal, frightening look.
Vampire - The sole flyer. Very fast. Life-draining.
Dread Knight - High damage melee unit. Does more damage the lower the enemy's morale. Chance of luck/critical hit increases with every attack.
love it, especially the Dread Knight (though i'd prefer it in champion).
jackson said:
Champion:
Bone Giant - As a vague point of inspiration, I imagine a sort of Behemoth-like creature, made of bones, with long bony claws and long bony teeth and a huge, monstrous appearance. It can take down obstacles such as city walls with ease. It has an aura of terror that lowers nearby enemies' morale. I think this could be a welcome breath of fresh air, given the so-so history of the bone/ghost dragons in Heroes and the controversial Fate Spinner, as well as its portrayal of classical horror.
Wraith - Powerful caster. Dark, mysterious, and sinister appearance. I still like the idea of having a spell-caster champion.
ah yeah, another point for the bone giant! really, Necro needs a crazy giant thing put together from a bunch of random bones 
that said, not a fan of the wraith/reaper for Necro though. Not sure why.
jackson said:
My own desires for the design:
-Please less green. A lot less.
-Please no spiders. I find spiders as a potential unit, no matter how big they are, so boring.
-Please create a darker and more sinister atmosphere. Please don't over-stylize the designs. And please don't be afraid to be a little more gruesome.
agreed with all but spiders. i think a swarm of spiders could prove a very interesting unit with some sort of swarming mechanic while keeping the tie to spider stuff, which i kinda like.
but man, the bone giant getting more love is great.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2014 10:19 AM |
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If we are talking about giant creatures for Necropolis, I would rather have Bone/Flesh Horror, which is a giant like monster, but made of multiple creatures, having more heads/hands, being completely asymmetric etc.
Just having a creature that is Undead version of something(be it Behemoth, Giant, Cyclop etc.) is not very interesting to be honest.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2014 10:52 AM |
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I think the idea was not an undead giant/behemoth, but a giant/behemoth made of bones/corpses. That makes it sort of like your bone/flesh horror 
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2014 11:03 AM |
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Steyn said:
I think the idea was not an undead giant/behemoth, but a giant/behemoth made of bones/corpses. That makes it sort of like your bone/flesh horror
Yeah I might misunderstood the description. If that is the case then cool, I agree with that idea.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 12, 2014 11:31 AM |
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Steyn said:
I think the idea was not an undead giant/behemoth, but a giant/behemoth made of bones/corpses. That makes it sort of like your bone/flesh horror
That's more like a golem. A composite of multiple dead creatures.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted November 12, 2014 12:18 PM |
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With both Academy and Dungeon having constructs, our last faction of mages, Necropolis, cannot stay behind
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 12, 2014 12:38 PM |
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imo:
Core: Unliving (skeleton + zombie), Banshee, Mummy (throws sickles at the enemy)
Elite: Lich, Vampire, Chimera (flesh of different beasts stitched together)
Champion: Reaper (H5 Wraith), Bone Wraith (animated monstrosity of bones)
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 13, 2014 08:17 AM |
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xerox said:
Mummy (throws sickles at the enemy)
haha, that made me laugh 
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 13, 2014 09:06 AM |
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Steyn said:
With both Academy and Dungeon having constructs, our last faction of mages, Necropolis, cannot stay behind
Somehow all creatures of Necropolis are constructs. They are matter, which does not have any live functions (at least at the moment before raising to army) and when it starts "living", it is controlled by a powerful mage. Skeletons, Zombies and Bone Dragons (at least according to their description in Heroes VI) are filling these requireents in the best way because other, humanoidal creatures have mind of their own.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 13, 2014 09:51 AM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Steyn said:
With both Academy and Dungeon having constructs, our last faction of mages, Necropolis, cannot stay behind
Somehow all creatures of Necropolis are constructs. They are matter, which does not have any live functions (at least at the moment before raising to army) and when it starts "living", it is controlled by a powerful mage. Skeletons, Zombies and Bone Dragons (at least according to their description in Heroes VI) are filling these requireents in the best way because other, humanoidal creatures have mind of their own.
I see what you are saying and to some extent I agree but not really all of them. I wouldn't rate Ghosts, Vampires, Liches and Fate Spinners as constructs, but other creatures like Bone Dragons, Skeletons, Ghouls, Zombies, Lamasus etc. definitely are mindless(or at least should be).
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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