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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Necropolis transition
Thread: Necropolis transition
Oz
Oz


Adventuring Hero
Preparing
posted August 17, 2014 11:12 AM
Edited by Oz at 11:29, 17 Aug 2014.

Necropolis transition

Hi! Some might remember me faintly, but honestly my presence here basically none, despite lurking these forums from time to time. However I'm kind of pumped for the new game, so it's concept time, and I'm here to share my random early morning ideas.

The thematic differences between H6's and H5's Necropolis give a great opportunity to add some transition, and show us how their lineup evolved over the centuries.
Seeing that they are keeping Anastasya, I realize they'll probably stick more to the Egyptian theme, but their towns should really reflect how they started to transform their pyramids into gothic spires on mountain tops. I feel that it would also allow us to kind of reach back into H3 or H2. So without further ado, here's how I can envision a necro faction at the time of the fourth eclipse:

Townscreen
They absolutely need keep the mostly triangular design, but their buildings should reach higher. Add some towers here or there, and more slender, floating obelisks.
As for the environment, away with the plain! I understand that they were kind of the desert faction of H6, but we have Academy for that now. I'm thinking H3 Tower. Some dark mountains on the sides, or atleast in the background(like H3), with dwellings built into them, and mansions on top.

Faction ability/direction/skills
First of all, they need to tone down the healing a lot. It was a general problem in H6, but what concerns me the most was the faction ability. Sure, it was useful, and made sense in the context, but we need proper necromancy for a necro faction, and I'm not even a necro enthusiast...
For the first time, I'd like to see a more fleshed out Necromancy that takes into consideration what we kill during a battle. I'm not talking about creature tiers, but reanimation that makes sense. If you killed core level archers, they'd turn into javelin throwing skeletons, if an elite caster dies, you could resurrect them as liches. Obviously, this whole system would need to be based on creature costs(which hopefully translates into an overall budget for their stats & abilities), and should be kept under control with a "dark energy" type of management system.
It's just not right talking about an undead army that doesn't fill its ranks from the enemies they slay, so I sincerely hope we are not getting raise dead again.
I'm not sure how heroes will be done, so I can't comment on that yet, but I hope for a few creature specific perks on the skill wheel. Something that makes Zombies faster, or add a debuff to some ranged attacks. These kind of creature specific upgrades, which are not simple stat boosts.

Line-up
What I had in mind is a mixture of the H5 and H6 creatures, often featuring some from H5 as an upgrade. I'd also be happy if they could cut back on the green, but since Ubi used it excessively in Ashan, it became one of their defining characteristics. Still, it could be a little more tasteful, with a grayish/bluish hue, but this is getting off-track, so..

Core:

Skeleton Guard -> Skeleton Sentinel
I think the web-slow was great, but a little bit forced thematically. I would imagine their use as kind of an anti-ranged creature. They would have low stats all across the board(surprise!), but the base creature should have a weaker "Large Shield" ability from H5, and hollow bones, while the upgrade gets a ranged attack, so they can do something while waiting for the enemy to reach them.
Their design should be based on H6 Haven's Sentinel units, as Necro tends to use humans as a base(ex: H5 Conscript->Zombie). They need a battered tower shield, and a javelin.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cme1lAwjtK4/T38gpeN4tpI/AAAAAAAAAdQ/a2DMk5bwdGU/s1600/legend_of_grimrock_skeleton_warrior_sketch[1].jpg   <- Maybe with less armor, and a longer spear.

Ghoul -> Zombie
This one is a pretty simple concept. Take away the spikes, and give them something to chop with. Everyone knows how useless the zombies are, and H6 was a welcome change to that, but they should be a little slower again. I think necro early game is supposed to be pretty weak in itself, and only compensated for in numbers(via necromancy). Zombies are also the ones that should represent the mummies here, with a debuff on attack, and the upgrade having a stacking "hunger" damage buff when they are surrounded by multiple enemy stacks, so tactical placement would be vital in bringing out their potential.
More details needed.

Specter -> Banshee
Again, a simple transition from the usual ghost unit, into what becomes a lvl6 alternate upgrade in H5. I'm not sure which of the many abilities they could get, but the heal was kind of op with its added situational usefulness. I reckon the base units are ok with "incorporeal", and a "haunting strike" which would reduce healing on the enemy. Then the upgrade would get a scream, which could translate into a "breath attack" or some aoe activated ability.
H6 design was overdecorated. Here I like the hood, and I doubt they plan to give up pretty faces. Also, it obviously needs to be incorporeal.

Elite:

Vampire -> Vampire Count/Lord
I would really enjoy the return of the H3 nosferatu design, but again, that would be inconsistent with the current universe. What they desperately need to get rid of is the green color. If they don't bite, at least their swords should be bloody, and they also don't need to look like a knight. So less armor+cloak, and more coat. I'd also prefer them older, so they could pass as a castlevania style Dracula.
Mechanically, I don't think they need the no enemy retal ability, and would do fine with a "frightening strike" which would half the power of retaliations. Also the upgrade should be armed with a "mesmerize" activated ability, which basically would be a blind, so if the necros want someone out of the picture, they need to waste the vampires formidable offensive power. Life drain is obviously present.
More armor, a darker, more subtle red, and a sword to keep the consistency.

Lich -> Archlich
Giving them the directed life drain ability was a cool idea, only they need to swap it with death cloud. The base creature should already have the ability to resuscitate his non-living allies, but only the upgrades should get aoe. A legit aoe, not a debuff cloud, while "life drain" would remain a single target ability, again, providing a choice for the player. There is a very good H6 fan concept for them, which shows the transition between H6 and H5 pretty well.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RuvzxfWrAyg/Thg0ypPA3gI/AAAAAAAAAaI/_Yos82Reo60/s1600/archlich.jpg   <- There's also a little bit of H3 here!

Arachnid Cadaver -> Venomous Cadaver
Not sure about the name, it has a nice ring, but overall it's meh. Anyway, this would be the kind of speedy meat shield without any meat. Imagine giant bone spiders. They couldn't make web anymore, but they would get H6's Skeletal Spearman web-slow, alongside an activated leap/rappel ability allowing them to go over walls. The upgrade gets a simple poison component added to its basic attack with a good chunk of health and we can call it a day.
I liked the fate weavers, but I felt that their transformation was too much, and seeing that there are no spider units present in the H5 line up, we need to see how arachnids started to abandon the battlefield. The Lamasu design was one of my favorites, but again, it's something they should be moving away from.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130810011617/moon-guard/images/4/45/Nerubian.jpg   <- This one's a nerubian, from WoW. I'm not sure if they need this whole spider-centaur thing, but it would allow for more characterization, and could be explained as a post-academy chimera project to keep the spiders represented.

Champion:

Bone Drake -> Dracolich/Necro Drake
This would be the obviously weaker, faster, more support oriented champ unit, with hollow bones, and a toned down version of H3's aging. The upgrade would raise undead troops of appropriate kind(based on the necromancy system) from the bones of living creatures upon destroying a stack.
There are far better sample designs, but this one shows how it could hold its wings like spider legs.

Wolfman -> Werewolf
This one is yet to show up in an official Necro line up, but if you think about it, it can tie in extremely well, and would finally introduce this beloved creature to the world of Ashan. Since the Haven is using direwolves it's even more fitting. The classic story would go that the Wizards created the wolf-man hybrids just like the other chimera types, but their natural bloodlust made them uncontrollable in the later stages of their life(Werewolf). The necromancers of course, being the kind souls they are, decided to adapt them, but by the time of H5 they have realized they could not contain them.
They shouldn't have any fancy ability, just fairly massive stats, lots of movement speed, auto regen, and a double attack for the upgrade, with possibly a "frenzy" aoe.
The design would be more inline with the classic movie, or more so its remake, the 2010 Wolfman.(Say what you want about the movie, but the effects were great.) Maybe their face could be more wolf-like for the upgrades, but I doubt Ubi would be keen on changing much of the base model. They could be bigger, or a single tile creature, just like Haven's new Swordbearer.
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/122/4/c/Wolfman_color_by_Thoriq_by_Jadool.jpg  <- The face could reflect on H3's Vampires, and its Behemoths equally well.



Well, that's all for now. Turned out much longer than I anticipated, sorry for that.
I'm pretty sure they already have a clear concept for the four anouannouncedtion, but I'm interested in your opinions.
What do you think, about the transition, or my idea of it?

*edit: Sorry for the links, the urls are all working, but for some reason not all of them seem to turn clickable. I separated the broken ones, so they are easier to copy-paste.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted August 17, 2014 11:25 AM

Some things are nice for example I really like Werewolves, especially as Champions since I think that they should be one of the strongest beings in any universe(not including Gods or such of course).

But did you really have to open another thread about this?
There is thread about Necropolis literally below yours.
____________
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become his true self.

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Oz
Oz


Adventuring Hero
Preparing
posted August 17, 2014 11:36 AM

I read it briefly, and agree with most of Lizard's sentiment, but I felt a complete write up, and the topic itself(being transition) deserved its own thread.
Honestly, I just felt that my reply would be lost.

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Pekao
Pekao

Tavern Dweller
posted August 17, 2014 02:56 PM

Im with this guy up here, i agree with a lot of your ideas. Werewolves would fit well into the faction, just look at the Necropolis of the Disciples series, their werewolf is great, but i wouldn't bring him as a Champion unit. Werewolf would be great as a Elite unit, next to the vampire.
Also, i really agree with the necromancy stuff. They wanted so badly to put every faction with some sort of special ability DURING the combat and that just didn't work out. Necromancy was always a great ability after the combat where you reanimate the lost troops of both sides, yours and from your opponent. Please bring back the Raise Dead Spell and the ability that Undead troops reanimated through this spell stay "Alive" after the combat. Heroes 5 had the best Necromancy of all time. Also, if they want to keep the Special Faction Ability during the combat they should put necropolis with some sort of curse or poison cloud, or Raising the dead through fallen corpses of living creatures only, that last one would be so amazing..
About the whole Necropolis style from heroes 6 i must say, when i heard they were going to make it based on egyptian culture i got so excited, because it makes so much sense, egyptian religion and culture was all about life after death. But the final result, with that Lamasu, that egyptian lich, that 100% warrior vampire.. I couldn't like it, and necropolis is my favorite faction of all time. So, even though it makes sense to make an egyptian necropolis, you guys shouldn't make it, please stick to the Gothic-haunted stuff from heroes 5, everyone agrees that Heroes 5 necropolis was one of the best of all time. I know it would be weird in the "Ashan Universe" to suddently change the style of the faction, but Heroes 7 will be many years in the future, please come up with something to justify that. I don't know maybe there were wars that expelled the Necromancers to different places were there culture was mixed with the local culture.
At last, i agree with some creatures there, but i wouldn't add those spider things (i talked about that in another post, please devs you gotta change a bit this spider cult story to something less spiderish and more dark and violent) and would put the Werewolf as an elite unit and an Undead Headless Horseman/Death Knight as a champion.

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Wellplay
Wellplay


Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
posted September 06, 2014 05:42 PM

I like this idea of necropolis changing overtime thanks to namtaru death and so on.

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Dwarfurious
Dwarfurious


Adventuring Hero
posted September 07, 2014 08:26 AM

RMZ1989 said:
Some things are nice for example I really like Werewolves, especially as Champions since I think that they should be one of the strongest beings in any universe(not including Gods or such of course).

But did you really have to open another thread about this?
There is thread about Necropolis literally below yours.

wat ? You cross a man with a wolf, two weak creatures, and you think it should rival a dragon? Werewolves are fodder. Lets not do that thing where we take old hollywood horror monsters and give them an arsenal of super powers.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 07, 2014 09:06 AM
Edited by RMZ1989 at 09:11, 07 Sep 2014.

Dwarfurious said:
RMZ1989 said:
Some things are nice for example I really like Werewolves, especially as Champions since I think that they should be one of the strongest beings in any universe(not including Gods or such of course).

But did you really have to open another thread about this?
There is thread about Necropolis literally below yours.

wat ? You cross a man with a wolf, two weak creatures, and you think it should rival a dragon? Werewolves are fodder. Lets not do that thing where we take old hollywood horror monsters and give them an arsenal of super powers.

That really depends on how you do them, I didn't mean normal Werewolves but more along the lines of the really strong and immortal creatures that have powerful abilities. The true unholy beast in the shape of a Werewolf if you want to look at it that way.

On the other hand, we have Swordbearer as a Champion, so what was your point again?
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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Oz
Oz


Adventuring Hero
Preparing
posted September 09, 2014 05:30 PM

Exactly.
Werewolves are versatile, and there are several ways you can portray them. You can do them as smaller units, Swordbearer style with massive numbers, or like Behemoths who were always able to rival dragons with their hp.
I'd prefer the latter, but the single tile unit with huge growth would also be inline with the design directions of H7.

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Protolisk
Protolisk


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 09, 2014 06:28 PM

Okay, I like A LOT of what you put here, but there are a few things that I am a bit wary of.

Townscreen: It's fine.

Faction Ability: So, H5's Necromancy?
Skills and what not are fine, no problems here.

The line-up:
Skeletons: Fine with this. Since H5 had the Skeleton Warrior alt-grade focusing on anti-range and normal upgrade with shooting, I welcome it as it fuses both.
Ghouls: Zombies used to always be slow, and the ghouls were super fast. A nice middle ground it appreciated. But, if it's gonna look like a mummy, why not call it a mummy?
Ghosts: No problems here.

Vampire: Castlevania Drac is always good in my mind. Though maybe not TOO fancy: they are in an army, and overt fancy clothing might be too much. No need to be H6/Arthas, but a bit more combat ready.
Liches: Wasn't that drawn by someone on this site?
Arachnid: If they are going with spiders and they aren't champions, this is the way to go, though I still enjoyed Fate Weavers (if only they just STAYED in spider form). However, "they can't make web, but get web slow" doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

Dead Dragons: Good, good.

Werewolves: Here's my problem. They aren't dead. Why have these things in a necro army if they aren't dead? (looking at you H4...) And further more, why are werewolves stronger than Vampires (which I always view as equals to werewolves; Vampires are cold and calculating on one side of the coin, werewolves are the ferocity on the other), or any other beast-man? I feel that if used at all, Werewolves need to be dead (kinda like how the Lamasu were still dead and existed) and made elite. Since the Fate weavers were champs before, they could stay champs (or remade into your Arachnid things, evolving, but give them a power boost befitting a champ). Why would they be replaced by H5? Because Bone Dragons are also being integrated into the system at this point in time, a natural replacement.

Again, it's not that I am saying "REMOVE YOUR WEREWOLF IDEA, IT IS THE DUMB" just that I don't think it fits as a Champ. People already dislike seeing Swordbearer as Champ, and I would feel the same if a living (!) creature is given strange power-boosts to be fitted with that level. Make it the fast walker at a elite level, and undead, and I'd be happy.

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