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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Humanoid or beastlike Inferno?
Thread: Humanoid or beastlike Inferno? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT»
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted August 18, 2014 04:06 PM
Edited by Galaad at 16:06, 18 Aug 2014.

I didn't like much Inferno line-up in H6.. Apart from the Pit Fiend/Pit Lord. I'd really like to see Efreets backs and/or Nightmares

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted August 18, 2014 04:08 PM

Creatures I'd love to see return for Inferno (if they would have to come back. I'd rather they didn't. Let the Humans or Necro be the villains for once, ugh :eyeroll

Succubi (anti-humanoid ranged attacker)
Maniacs (fast walker who gains attack from finishing off enemy stacks)
Imps (Anti-caster swarmer)

Nightmares (open terrain charger)
Cerberi (anti close formation charger)
Ifriti  (fire elemental flyer)

Pit Lords (bulky spellcaster)
Archdevils (offensive teleporter)

Mother breeders COULD work if we want a second shooter, but that unit would need a huge overhaul.

So essentially, Humanoids + Hellhounds/Nightmares would do the trick. As long as Ubisoft don't go out on inventing troops for the sake of game mechanics instead of making the original (amazing) designs work for themselves.
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted August 18, 2014 04:27 PM

Humanoid demons but with other beasts in the lineup like the Cerberi.. I wouldn't mind seeing some Warhammer influence in the Demons either, but it a way that fits Heroes world. Creatures like Ravager are way too boring for my taste - looks like it could have come from a Sylvan forest but with it's fur colored red. And Heroes 6 Succubus looks amazing to me, way better than it's Heroes 5 counterpart.

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Fauch
Fauch


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 18, 2014 05:06 PM

cerberus as an elite could be nice, it always felt weak, except maybe in H3

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted August 18, 2014 05:19 PM

When a unit has a possible triple(!) attack it must be somehow weaker, but that has created a problem with the Cerberus throughout the series. Either it hits multiple units and is strong or it hits one unit and is weak. Then again in Inferno I like this chaotic element. If they weaken the 2 other heads attacks to 50% we could have a durable and awesome Cerberi at elite level methinks ^^

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MeanMan
MeanMan


Adventuring Hero
posted August 18, 2014 05:41 PM

Voted Humanoids.

The Demons in Heroes 6 had cool abilities and were fun to play, but painful to watch except for the Succubi. They don't feel like satanic demons to me, they are just some mindless lava monsters.

A future line up of Inferno should include about 4 humanoid demons with 3 beasts who are not lava monsters.

Precisely, bring back Efreet's, humanoid devils and keep the Succubi (with a H6-like look and not H5-like) and add one more humanoid demon. Maybe some kind of a punisher or torturer, it can have a whip like the Pit Lords in H3 but that's not a prerequisite.

Beast-like creatures should include a Cerberus. The others are up to Ubi's imagination.

I also like the idea of possessed units. While we are on it, I'd like a stronger emphasis of seduction, mind-control and turning friends against each other in a possible future Inferno faction.

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itwasntme
itwasntme


Hired Hero
#tigerblood
posted August 18, 2014 09:25 PM

I feel that limiting the entire lineup to either one or the other is terrible for flavour and variety.  Inferno's lineup needs to embody nightmarish fears and negative emotions.  The models should have humanoid characteristics where appropriate, and avoid a humanoid appearance entirely when it's not necessary.

If the creature is representing a corruption of a human moral, such as lust (succubus) or trickery (imp), then it should have a humanoid model corrupted by demonic features.  More primal emotions or senses such as rage (pit lords) and doom (hellhounds) should have more primal and fearsome models.

Some examples:

My all-time favourite demonic units are the H5/H6 Pit Lords.  They're huge, hulking creatures of bone and ash and flame.  To me they scream "I'm here to destroy you and devour your soul".  They embody primal attributes such as rage, anger, and raw power.  They're the poster child for the Inferno faction precisely for these reasons.

Another solid unit is the succubus.  They're the embodiment of lust, desire, and a lack of self-control.  Lust and desire are very human emotions, so it's fitting that the model uses a corrupted figure of a human.  This concept is widely used across media and film and games, and for good reason.

A third common and fitting model is the hellhound.  Cerberus is the guard of the underworld, preventing the souls of the dead from escaping.  In other mythologies they hunt lost souls, guard places of power, or are omens of terrible things to come.  The hellhound embodies impending doom, implacable and inescapable.  It is fitting that they're represented by a creature that scared our ancestors (wolves) twisted into a demonic style.

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lokdron
lokdron


Famous Hero
posted August 18, 2014 09:41 PM

itwasntme said:
I feel that limiting the entire lineup to either one or the other is terrible for flavour and variety.  Inferno's lineup needs to embody nightmarish fears and negative emotions.  The models should have humanoid characteristics where appropriate, and avoid a humanoid appearance entirely when it's not necessary.

If the creature is representing a corruption of a human moral, such as lust (succubus) or trickery (imp), then it should have a humanoid model corrupted by demonic features.  More primal emotions or senses such as rage (pit lords) and doom (hellhounds) should have more primal and fearsome models.

Some examples:

My all-time favourite demonic units are the H5/H6 Pit Lords.  They're huge, hulking creatures of bone and ash and flame.  To me they scream "I'm here to destroy you and devour your soul".  They embody primal attributes such as rage, anger, and raw power.  They're the poster child for the Inferno faction precisely for these reasons.

Another solid unit is the succubus.  They're the embodiment of lust, desire, and a lack of self-control.  Lust and desire are very human emotions, so it's fitting that the model uses a corrupted figure of a human.  This concept is widely used across media and film and games, and for good reason.

A third common and fitting model is the hellhound.  Cerberus is the guard of the underworld, preventing the souls of the dead from escaping.  In other mythologies they hunt lost souls, guard places of power, or are omens of terrible things to come.  The hellhound embodies impending doom, implacable and inescapable.  It is fitting that they're represented by a creature that scared our ancestors (wolves) twisted into a demonic style.


I am in full agreement and the succubus and the pit lord are my favorite units as well.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 19, 2014 09:42 AM

There are seven deadly sins, traditionally (well, according to Christianity). Those are Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride. Since we have seven creatures in the line-up (out of eight possible, I think one of the Cores should be generic), it would be interesting if each of Inferno's creatures would somehow be an embodiment of those sins. Some of the sins could reinforce one another (like Gluttony and Greed, or Wrath and Envy), so the special abilities of their embodiments might also work together.

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 19, 2014 09:53 AM

Maurice said:
There are seven deadly sins, traditionally (well, according to Christianity). Those are Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy and Pride. Since we have seven creatures in the line-up (out of eight possible, I think one of the Cores should be generic), it would be interesting if each of Inferno's creatures would somehow be an embodiment of those sins. Some of the sins could reinforce one another (like Gluttony and Greed, or Wrath and Envy), so the special abilities of their embodiments might also work together.


This actually is more then interesting idea. I like it
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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted August 19, 2014 10:03 AM

Could work actually. What were the Overlords "specialities" again? I remember Hate and Pain, so the eight one could easily be Pain too.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted August 19, 2014 11:39 AM
Edited by RMZ1989 at 11:42, 19 Aug 2014.

Minion said:
Could work actually. What were the Overlords "specialities" again? I remember Hate and Pain, so the eight one could easily be Pain too.

Madness - Maniacs
Voracity - Cerberus
Pain - Tormentors
Destruction - Juggernauts
Proliferation - Breeders
Hate - Pit Fiends

It doesn't state for Succubus, but it is probably Lust or something close to it if they are controlled by Demon Overlords anyway.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted August 19, 2014 11:42 AM

RMZ1989 said:

It doesn't state for Succubus, but it is probably something close to Lust.

No, those 6 are THE 6.
Succubi are "rewarded" Cultists with no particular connection to any overlord.
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Iron from Ice.

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VOKIALBG
VOKIALBG


Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
posted August 19, 2014 12:00 PM

Minion said:
Could work actually. What were the Overlords "specialities" again? I remember Hate and Pain, so the eight one could easily be Pain too.


In the Orthodox world there is 8th sin: despair. This may work for some creature that lowers morale maybe.
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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted August 19, 2014 12:02 PM

Although they sucked as unit, I really like the concept. They are more demonic looking remakes of the venom spawns. I only wished they could actually summon imps as an 8th inferno unit, instead of using them as arrows. Maybe by using the mana they stole from the enemy hero...

The inferno unit I disliked the most were those tormentors. They are just vaguely humanoid monsters full of spikes.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 19, 2014 12:10 PM
Edited by Maurice at 14:19, 19 Aug 2014.

VOKIALBG said:
In the Orthodox world there is 8th sin: despair. This may work for some creature that lowers morale maybe.


This works for me .

Edit: I've put some more thought into it, fleshing out the idea a bit more, relating the sins to specific creatures and ability. Note that in some cases, the ability comes with the upgrade (not the base unit) or is enhanced when upgraded. Some of these have already been used in previous Heroes games, too, so I'll just list the corresponding creature with it where it applies. The rest is open for design. I'll also make a distinction between the various tiers at which I feel the ability fits. Activated abilities have a cooldown, of course. Durations and cooldowns are subject to playtesting .

Cores:

Sloth: ???, anyone damaged by these creatures will suffer a debuff to both Initiative and Movement Speed for a while.

Gluttony: Cerberus, applied to the victim when attacking. Stacks with this debuff take extra damage from Cerberi.

Lust: Succubus, using this activated ability will Mind Control the victim for a short time. Only available to the upgrade.

Elites:

Pride: ???, enemy stacks with this activated debuff can only attack enemy stacks of same tier or higher. The upgraded version only allows the stack to attack enemies of higher tier (so Champions cannot attack anything). Buff lasts a few turns.

Greed: ???, this activated ability removes all buffs from the target enemy stack and applies it to itself. The upgraded version steals all buffs from all stacks and applies it to itself, mass spells are also applied to friendly stacks. Remaining spell duration is not affected.

Envy: ???, this ability triggers on attack and will switch each stat with an enemy stack, if the respective stat of the enemy stack is higher. The switch remains until end of combat.

Champions:

Wrath: Pit Fiend, anyone who damaged these creatures will be debuffed for the rest of combat. Anyone with the debuff will take damage when the Pit Fiend retaliates to an attack.

Despair: Devil, the mere presence of these creatures causes the enemy to feel despair, lowering their morale on the battlefield. The upgraded version lowers morale even further.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted August 19, 2014 02:42 PM
Edited by Minion at 14:45, 19 Aug 2014.

First thing that comes to mind is that Devil should be Pride, as was Lucifer himself. Unmatched in the battlefield, with the attitude of "you DARE challenge MEEE". In despair I see something like a Nightmare with it's Fear attack (causing despair). I envision Nightmare as a black horse-shaped mist that flies (but looks like cavalry of course) It could get stronger the more units fear it.

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Steyn
Steyn


Supreme Hero
posted August 19, 2014 02:49 PM

I agree with Minion, devils are pride. Maybe pride lets them do increased damage to lower tier units?

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted August 19, 2014 03:01 PM

As Hell factions go, I'd say that the Disciples series nailed it, especially with the creature upgrades.

As to Heroes 7, I'd prefer it to be more bestial myself.  
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted August 19, 2014 03:28 PM
Edited by Maurice at 15:49, 19 Aug 2014.

Minion said:
First thing that comes to mind is that Devil should be Pride, as was Lucifer himself. Unmatched in the battlefield, with the attitude of "you DARE challenge MEEE". In despair I see something like a Nightmare with it's Fear attack (causing despair). I envision Nightmare as a black horse-shaped mist that flies (but looks like cavalry of course) It could get stronger the more units fear it.


While I can agree with the Nightmare, I am not sure about the Pride thing with Devils. With these sins, I would say that they either have to be detrimental for the enemy (like Gluttony or Lust), or beneficial to itself (like Wrath or Greed).

How would you envision a Devil getting benefit from Pride?

Edit: I think I have something that might be useful:

Pride: Devils, whenever an enemy stack suffers from bad luck or bad morale, Devils receive a buff to their stats until the end of combat. The buff increases with each triggering of this effect.

That would then include Nightmares for the Despair sin . But I would then perhaps not have the Despair effect present merely because they're on the battlefield, but rather as a triggered or activated effect that severly reduces enemy morale.

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