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| Thread: What does this picture tell us about globalism? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted August 22, 2014 01:09 PM |
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kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted August 22, 2014 01:20 PM |
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Oh now I get it, they were but bronze at first and someone painted them in american comic super heroes haha! I can be so stupid at times.
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted August 22, 2014 05:23 PM |
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Zenofex said:
Assuming that the Americans have a culture  ,
It's not our culture that's being exported it's "Marketing" 
At it's deepest level, today's culture here in the states is actually closer akin to..."Buy shiny objects." But I'm probably veering way off topic.
@ Artu
We think a lot alike at times. I almost posted about whether war-memorials, (except graveyards) should all be torn down. To me having monuments to war is a bad idea nowadays. <imo> Wars have winners and losers but actually no one wins in the end.
Odd how people can be so sensitive of how words might be interpreted and yet pay no notice to what a statue might suggest to those that come later. <imo> Better to have a global-ban on the old habit of...to our glorious dead/cause/government etc.
Btw, what got me thinking about this was reading how the Russians and French felt about German war monuments during the time-frame of the world wars. And not that long ago Japan built a memorial on one of our Alaskan islands to honor the dead of Japan and the U.S. and yet many American veterans saw the act as dis-honoring their dead comrades and protested in Congress.
Maybe it'd be better to have memorial graveyards and leave it at that.
____________
"Do your own research"
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted August 22, 2014 11:47 PM |
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If you have an extremely poisonous ideology, such as with the USSR and other communist regimes, and it has ended and the nation is gradually recovering from the sickness, I would get the images out of the public square immediately, because I appreciate what many people are failing to appreciate today, which is that visuals do matter, a lot. The ringleaders of communist countries - though wrong in their worldview - quite sagely understood this very real effect on the human person and on society, but postmodernist Westerners are more likely to be in denial due to their juvenile understanding of freedom, which is that the less censored things are, allegedly the more free you are. An authentic freedom that leads to your self-actualization and sense of peace as a human being is in your ability to control yourself and to be minimized from the negative outside affects as much as possible. A great deal of it is psychological. It isn't gained in some over-stimulated bombshell of information, that theoretically can even be counter-productive to acquiring freedom.
On the other hand, I don't take kindly to iconoclasm in any form, or to the destruction of history, whether its Soviet or otherwise There's no need for a 2nd sacking of the libraries of Alexandria by Mohammedan neanderthals. My thoughts are: relocate the statues to national museums/libraries/centers, where they can be seen in an academic setting. There's a huge contextual difference between a statue of Mao on the street and a statue of Mao in a university library.
You also run into questions on what to keep in public and what to relocate/store. Many people will - justifiably imo - be very upset to take down a monument commemorating fallen soldiers in the eastern campaign. Leave them up. A mother couldn't care less what regime her son died under, and it's not directly associated with a belligerent government in the way certain other monuments might be.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted August 23, 2014 12:28 AM |
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blizzardboy said:
An authentic freedom that leads to your self-actualization and sense of peace as a human being is in your ability to control yourself and to be minimized from the negative outside affects as much as possible. A great deal of it is psychological. It isn't gained in some over-stimulated bombshell of information, that theoretically can even be counter-productive to acquiring freedom.
Well said!
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 12:33 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 00:33, 23 Aug 2014.
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most cultures in the world are incredibly oppressive, I'm glad that people choose western ideals over them
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 23, 2014 01:10 AM |
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Edited by artu at 01:21, 23 Aug 2014.
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blizz said:
There's no need for a 2nd sacking of the libraries of Alexandria by Mohammedan neanderthals.
That would actually be the third. The first sacking was done by the Christians, the minute they got power over the pagan Romans.
There's even a historically semi-accurate movie about it, if you're interested. Not a bad movie, btw:Agora
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 23, 2014 01:45 AM |
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Seriously all artu needs is a nice **** in the arse and he;ll be set, I bet all the money in the world that sex would set that mind as straight as my cock.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 23, 2014 01:58 AM |
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I just got laid this Tuesday, Tsar. So, thanks for thinking of my welfare but I think I'll pass, I really wouldn't like my mind to work like an asexual man's cock.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted August 23, 2014 02:09 AM |
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You mistake me brother, I did not mean to insinuate that you needed an average poontang in which to mellow your penis. I mean the mother of all vaginas, the beast of beasts, the thing that would make all other men quake in fear, this is what I speak of.
Merely to get laid is fine a thing, but to encounter the legendary poontang, and to plow it it, this is what I speak of, and this is what I recommend as your medical doctor.
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 03:04 AM |
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lol. wtf, but hilarious anyway.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 23, 2014 07:30 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 07:33, 23 Aug 2014.
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Quote:
If you have an extremely poisonous ideology, such as with the USSR and other communist regimes, and it has ended and the nation is gradually recovering from the sickness, I would get the images out of the public square immediately
That's not how some people view it though. The bombastic Cold War nonsense from the above sentence aside, the Eastern bloc countries do have a lot to recover from (illusions, mostly) but the recovery process has turned into a wholesale robbery of what was built, ironically, exactly during the Soviet times, under the slogans of democracy and whatnot. So there is a degree of nostalgia which does have a fairly reasonable explanation - the standard of living was just higher back then. There are other factors involved as well but this is the main one.
Moving monuments like this one to a museum is not an option. You can't see it from artu's picture but this thing is actually more than 20 metres high (there's a guy for scale on the right side). There is another monument of similar size in the same park, some half a kilometre away from this one. And many others across the country, including an 80-metres high construction on top of a mountain peak (that thing, it's much bigger than it seems) which looks like Illuminati's headquarters from the inside. You don't move objects of that size anywhere, you either demolish them or leave them be.
I don't know what does a Soviet army memorial do at the centre of the capital but I also don't know what does a memorial of the American pilots who bombarded the city during WW2 do in front of the US embassy, both of them make zero sense from national perspective and could be considered offensive in certain contexts. But there they are. The country is just someone's colonial extension for the greater part of its modern history and that has nothing to do with globalism.
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted August 23, 2014 08:42 AM |
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Lol at the picture.
#1: We've got a neighborhood in our city with a similar group of statues (though nonmilitary) that gets decorated about every couple of weeks. It's not a big deal anymore, in fact it's kind of expected. Coincidentally there's a big bronze statue of Lenin nearby as well - take that for what you will.
#2: I know artists, and if you were to ask these people what their intentions were, I bet their answer wouldn't have anything to do with globalism or communism or any other 'ism'. In fact I bet their answer would be "just because".
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kipshasz
Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
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posted August 23, 2014 09:09 AM |
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Geny said:
The original monument wasn't just art, it was a memorial for the brave people who fought in a war, so transforming it into something else is first and foremost vandalism because treads on their memory.
besides, the reds just sent people from their annexed territories, like Belarus and Baltics into the front line against the krauts. So one can speculate that the defaced monument is actually dedicated to Bulgarian troops who fought under the commie banner.
____________
"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior
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Atronach
Hired Hero
Fired Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 09:12 AM |
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It's funny, but it's also vandalism. No one asked them to change the monument like this, so they shouldn't have done it. This is the equivalent of spraying graffiti on a public building: it can be artistic, but it still shouldn't be done.
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To the victor go the spoils.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 23, 2014 11:01 AM |
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kipshasz said:
besides, the reds just sent people from their annexed territories, like Belarus and Baltics into the front line against the krauts. So one can speculate that the defaced monument is actually dedicated to Bulgarian troops who fought under the commie banner.
Bulgaria was a German ally for the greater part of World War 2. A very formal ally, but an ally nevertheless. Bulgarians fought on Soviet side only during the last months of the war and didn't take part in any major operation. That monument is for the "real" Soviet army or rather its idealised version.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 23, 2014 01:56 PM |
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Edited by artu at 14:14, 23 Aug 2014.
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FriendOfGunner said:
#2: I know artists, and if you were to ask these people what their intentions were, I bet their answer wouldn't have anything to do with globalism or communism or any other 'ism'. In fact I bet their answer would be "just because".
Once again, I do not claim the ones who painted the monument deliberately did something to present a manifest about globalism, but every figure is American, and they are not a team like the Avengers or X-men, it's random: DC heroes, Marvel heroes... even the Coca Cola version of Santa Claus.
They probably just wanted to have some fun and spontaneously picked the heroes, simply because those were the first that came to their mind. Those coming to their mind first, tells us something about globalism though: Most (in this case all) pop icons are American.
Btw, when it comes to serious art with individualistic manifests, "just because" is usually something the artist says but doesn't actually mean. It may simply hint:
1- I am too shy to talk about it. (Many artists are not very social people. Even stage people can be quite introverted in real life.)
2- Artistic expression can not be summed up analytically and the ideas it contain are deeply linked in an organic fashion. These are generally beyond the limits of binary logic, sometimes, the effect is not even recognizable consciously. So, answering "just because" to a question such as "what did you mean by this, maestro" can simply mean, "what a stupid question." Musicians love to do that, since theirs is the most abstract. Beethoven, when asked what did his composition tell, simply used to play his piece one more time without saying a word. A reporter asks Bob Dylan once "what did you mean by the words, people don't live or die, people just float" and he replies "I just needed a word that rhymes with coat."
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 05:41 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 17:45, 23 Aug 2014.
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artu said:
Those coming to their mind first, tells us something about globalism though: Most (in this case all) pop icons are American.
It rather tells us something about marketing. The USA is a big country with lots of powerful companies and wealthy individuals. Also, American culture is very extroverted, always pushing their ideas to the outside but taking very little in (or when they do, they treat those foreign influences as half-american). In Europe, the culture is very different, possibly because all European contries are surrounded by other countries of greater or equal strength, while America is the only big boy of its continent (now what's that continent called again..., oh right they even stole the continent's name for their own country), making them feel like the kings of the world. This, written from a slightly exaggerated European perspetive obviously.
By the way, would you mind giving a simple readable definition of globalism? I looked it up in several dictionaries and got some different results, but they all seemed to have more to do with politics/economics than with popular culture. And I certainly thought that globalism as an idea would be almost the opposite of one country drowning others with their own influence (which sounds more like imperialism), and rather about having mutually interactive networks between nations. Of course you can still argue that the USA has a larger share of that network than others, but that's only natural given the size and wealth of that country (what really matters is maximum wealth, not the average, and in the USA the really rich are very very rich which is not quite as true for many western European countries where rich people are small fry compared to their American counterparts).
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 23, 2014 05:57 PM |
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Well, needless to say, globalization in economics and politics brings a cultural aspect with it. And globalization IS called neo-imperialism by some. Think of the Big Mac index for example, could it be any other nations food that functions like that? And isn't food a very primal part of culture?
I don't have too much time to write at the moment. You might want to check this out, especially the homogenization part:
Cultural Globalization
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 23, 2014 06:07 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 18:08, 23 Aug 2014.
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Thanks, I actually already glanced at that page but might actually read it through then. The page on globalism said "not to be confused with globalization" but I guess they're closely related. Globalization is a more familiar word to me.
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