|
| Thread: Regarding the Magic System |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted September 09, 2014 12:00 PM |
|
|
RMZ1989 said:
Well 5 levels of Magic Guild is still fine, but H3 had 4 spell schools with ~20 spells in each school and H5 had also 4 spell schools, ~10 spells in each school but Magic Guild had 2-3 Schools(some faction had more).
Now, if we have the same system in H7, but 15 spells per school and 7 schools, 6 schools per Magic Guild... I can say good luck in getting spells you wish for.
Yes, I like randomness in Heroes franchise and how you need to adapt to it but this will be way too random. You might as well add all 105 spells to one school and just separate them by tiers because it wouldn't matter at all, you will have a ton of spells and they will be different every game.
Well the system is not entirely random. Each faction has an affinity to a type of magic and even secondaries. Like for example Haven has to Light and a secondary of Air. So Haven's magic guild will have a tendency to offer Light and Air spells, with the rest totally random. It's similar to the system in Heroes 5.
So with that in mind, imagine a system where the magic guild would have 5 levels and 4 3 3 2 2 spell distribution, which imo is the likeliest scenario. You can increase the chance of Light and Air spells to appear for Haven, like 100% chance for 1 Light to be given on the 1 2 3 4 and 5th levels, and 1 Air spell with a 50% chance to appear on the 1 2 and 3rd levels. And the rest of the percentages divide accordingly. Keep in mind that they divide at 6 spell schools not 7, cuz Haven no Dark...
So a graph would look like this:
Level 1:
Spell 1. | Spell 2. | Spell 3. | Spell 4.
Light - 100% | Light - 10% | Light - 16% | Light - 16%
Air - 0% | Air - 50% | Air - 16% | Air - 16%
Fire - 0% | Fire - 10% | Fire - 16% | Fire - 16%
Water - 0% | Water - 10% | Water - 16% | Water - 16%
Earth - 0% | Earth - 10% | Earth - 16% | Earth - 16%
Prime - 0% | Prime - 10% | Prime - 16% | Prime - 16%
Level 2:
Spell 1. | Spell 2. | Spell 3.
Light - 100% | Light - 10% | Light - 16%
Air - 0% | Air - 50% | Air - 16%
Fire - 0% | Fire - 10% | Fire - 16%
Water - 0% | Water - 10% | Water - 16%
Earth - 0% | Earth - 10% | Earth - 16%
Prime - 0% | Prime - 10% | Prime - 16%
Level 3:
Spell 1. | Spell 2. | Spell 3.
Light - 100% | Light - 10% | Light - 16%
Air - 0% | Air - 50% | Air - 16%
Fire - 0% | Fire - 10% | Fire - 16%
Water - 0% | Water - 10% | Water - 16%
Earth - 0% | Earth - 10% | Earth - 16%
Prime - 0% | Prime - 10% | Prime - 16%
Level 4:
Spell 1. | Spell 2.
Light - 100% | Light - 16%
Air - 0% | Air - 16%
Fire - 0% | Fire - 16%
Water - 0% | Water - 16%
Earth - 0% | Earth - 16%
Prime - 0% | Prime - 16%
Level 5:
Spell 1. | Spell 2.
Light - 100% | Light - 16%
Air - 0% | Air - 16%
Fire - 0% | Fire - 16%
Water - 0% | Water - 16%
Earth - 0% | Earth - 16%
Prime - 0% | Prime - 16%
[/courier]
Randomness but controlled by drop percentages.
You could tweak the numbers, but the main idea should be kept.
Edit: I hate it when it all looks so tidy when you type it but ends up so messed up when you post it. Sucks.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 01:07 PM |
|
|
|
Bad idea. You'd see the same Light/Air bla in every Haven hero, and the chances to see a different build were way worse than in HoMM 5, where they were slim at best. That would be like giving each town 30 spells.
|
|
foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 01:59 PM |
|
|
I have another proposal.
Let say we have Wisdom + 7 magic school skills. If the hero doesn’t have Wisdom or any of the other magic school skills can’t learn any spell. Basic Wisdom will unlock 1st level (L1) of all magic schools, Advanced and Expert – L2 and L3, respectively. If you want your hero to learn higher level spells you need to specialize him via specific magic school skill. Basic [put any magic school] only reduces the mana cost and increase the effect of the spells aligned to this magic school. Advanced unlocks L4 + further reduce of the mana cost and increase the effect of the spells. Expert unlocks L5 and again the same approach for mana cost and the effect + some other boosts like mass effects, hit 5th stack for Chain Lightning etc. If you don’t want Wisdom then specialize directly through magic school skill – Basic unlocks L1-2, Advanced – L3-4, Expert – L5 and same thing for the mana and effects like above. Expert Wisdom may also unlock L4-5 Prime magic school. So I think there will be some balance.
As I stated on the previous page it really depends how many skill spots hero has. In this case 5 spots are more than insufficient. I more and more incline to 7-8 spots. If your hero has Wisdom + 2-3 magic schools there will be plenty of spots for other non-magic skills. Lets be honest no one plays solely magic or might hero. It’s always some mix of Might and Magic and/or Adventure and/or other skills. The other thing is that there always be a-must-skills, it’s unavoidable and you also can’t have everything.
About the amount of spells per magic school. I don’t think that the big amount will be a problem. Everything depends on the developers how many ways will implement for learning a spell – Mage Guilds, external buildings, scrolls, tomes, the old Pandora boxes and so on. Then comes to the map makers how they’re gonna design the map. I want to see Magic Shrines and Universities that may teach your hero a spell(s) from L1 to L5 (if he/she has the appropriate skill). Also when defeat dragons in the Utopia your hero may learn a higher level (L3-5) spell(s) (if he/she has the appropriate skill) and receives artifacts. There are many possibilities to obtain spells if your mage guild f***ed you up. Even in H3 there are some games when you have a lot to wait until your hero learns Town Portal, Dimension Door or some other high level spell.
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 02:09 PM |
|
|
Trying to fit 6 Magic Schools all at the same time on one Magic Guild only gives headaches
I'd rather go with H4 approach, but improved (sort of what War-Overlord proposed in the first page):
- One main Magic Guild building: gives spells of the Magic School linked to that faction (Haven: Light, Sylvan: Earth, Fortress: Fire, Sanctuary: Water...)
- 1-2 Magic Guild Annexes: give spells of the Magic Schools you CHOOSE. That way you can try different hero builds when you play, replayability. Of course, it could be possible to ban Magic Schools from factions (like Haven not being able to get Dark).
- Academy could have an extra Annexe, or simply the classical library to add one more spell per level. Or whatever to make Academy the most magical faction of all, as it is.
This system brings two big improvements to magic system:
First, it lets you to develop your hero without depending of Magic Guild luck (H3 problem): since you can choose which Magic Annexes to build on your town, you no longer fear of commiting to one Magic School and later on, when fully building your Magic Guild discover that you don't have high level spells of that School. That simply sucked in H3 (and Academy in H5 too).
Secondly, it avoids factions always using the same Magic Schools like it happened in Heroes V.
Finally, I would bring down the number of levels from 5 to 4. Each Magic Guild/Annexe would give 2/2/1/1 level 1/2/3/4 spells. Each Magic School would have *at minimun* 3 spells per level, to grant replayability and also force the player to adapt if they don't get the speel they were seeking (it's also important to make spells not too situational, like H5 Word of Light )
Level 4 spells could be limited to 2, if necessary, but I'd aim for around 12-15 spells per Magic School: not too many, but not too few either 
Oh, and something I forgot to say: spells would benefit from certain special effects/buffs thanks to Magic Skill abilities/perks. Just like in HV Destructive game Stun/Freeze/Halve Armor effects, similar could be think for each Magic School. Some perks would affect all spells of that Magic School, some would affect only a group of them. The idea is to have few but powerfull, distinctive spells.
I still think 7 Magic Schools are too many, but with this system it would mix a fair amount of randomness (spells in Magic Guild) but also allow the player to have some control of their Magic build.
Here you have an example with Haven
Haven
Magic Guild School: Light
Possible annexes: Air/Water/Earth/Fire/Prime
Magic Guild level 1: 2 Light spells
Magic Guild level 2: 2 Light spells
Magic Guild level 3: 1 Light spell
Magic Guild level 4: 1 Light spell
Light Magic School spells
Level 1
- Bless
- Haste
- Cleansing
Level 2
- Endurance
- Regeneration
- Mirth
Level 3
- Righteous Might
- Deflect Missile
- Song of Peace
Level 4
- Divine Vengeance
- Resurrection
- Prayer
So if we fully build our Magic Guild in our Haven town, we could get something like:
Bless & Haste
Regeneration & Mirth
Song of Peace
Ressurection
As spells. Each town woulg offer 12/18 spells (depending of if we allow 1 or 2 magic annexes per town, dev decision depending of game balance). Levels 1 & 2 could get 1 more spell, but remember that hero skill abilities/perks would also affect spells (more spell power, new effects, mass version of the spell) so it wouldn't be necessary to have a thousand spells in each Magic School
____________
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 02:52 PM |
|
|
alcibiades said:
JollyJoker said:
So if it was me, there were only 4 Mage Guild levels. Spells: 3 3 2 2, 10 per school.
Did you just advocate for spell schools with only 10 spells in them? 
Actually, no, I'm not. I'm just advocating for "only" 10 spells per school available via the mage guild.
I also advocated - if you read it through - for spells given via ability, because they are too situational or might want to be given in a more controlled way via a strict ability chain.
For example, Word of Light is a spell I would want - but not in the guild, because it could be completely useless. So I would want it available as an ability. Same might be true for, say, Earthquake (obvious reasons: magic Haven hero may have a problem to get fortifications down effectively). CotN is of the same stuff. "Banish" would obviously a Prime Magic spell doing away with Gated stuff, Summoned Elementals and other summoned stuff, and there will be more - maybe special Necro mojo, maybe adventure spells, who knows.
For the guild, though, yes. 10 is plenty. That's an array of 60 for a town like Haven, plus some in the form of abilities - wouldn't that be plenty?
I mean, I understand that a lot of spells is somewhat fun, but I also think, that it doesn't make sense to have the same spell a couple of times, just slightly tweaked.
It FEELS not enough, because in HoMM 5, what you had EFFECTIVELY was 20 spells per town (and later 24 or so), because in the end the others most of the time played no role, except when conquering another town. But at that point, most of the time you already had followed through the routine and picked Destructive with Dungeon, giving you Arcane Arrow or Stone Spikes, Ice or Lightning, Frost or Fireball.
However, with the system I sketched you'd not only get 6 5 4 3 spells instead of 3 3 3 2 2, you'd also see up to 60 different spells in the guild, and you wouldn't necessarily see the Haven heroes casting Mass Haste, Mass Endurance, Mass Bless and so on, but you might see all combinations.
I mean with that badass Wolf Haven, a Hero Cleric coming over you with Fire and Earth would be something else than, err, Light and Light.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 03:33 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
Edit: I hate it when it all looks so tidy when you type it but ends up so messed up when you post it. Sucks.
If you change the font to courier it will keep the layout of the table in the final post.
JollyJoker said:
Actually, no, I'm not. I'm just advocating for "only" 10 spells per school available via the mage guild.
I also advocated - if you read it through - for spells given via ability, because they are too situational or might want to be given in a more controlled way via a strict ability chain.
(...)
For the guild, though, yes. 10 is plenty. That's an array of 60 for a town like Haven, plus some in the form of abilities - wouldn't that be plenty?
Yes, I get your point, and I agree that giving some situational skills as abilities instead are probably a good solution. And like I also said above, I do acknowledge that with 7 schools (of which 6 will have to be available in each mage guild) it doesn't make sense to expect more than 10-12 spells from each school, simply because it multiplies by so many schools. I don't like schools with so few spells, but obviously that's the mess one is stuck with if one refuses to change the school ideas.
Storm-Giant said:
Trying to fit 6 Magic Schools all at the same time on one Magic Guild only gives headaches
I'd rather go with H4 approach, but improved (sort of what War-Overlord proposed in the first page):
- One main Magic Guild building: gives spells of the Magic School linked to that faction (Haven: Light, Sylvan: Earth, Fortress: Fire, Sanctuary: Water...)
- 1-2 Magic Guild Annexes: give spells of the Magic Schools you CHOOSE. That way you can try different hero builds when you play, replayability. Of course, it could be possible to ban Magic Schools from factions (like Haven not being able to get Dark).
- Academy could have an extra Annexe, or simply the classical library to add one more spell per level. Or whatever to make Academy the most magical faction of all, as it is.
This system brings two big improvements to magic system:
First, it lets you to develop your hero without depending of Magic Guild luck (H3 problem): since you can choose which Magic Annexes to build on your town, you no longer fear of commiting to one Magic School and later on, when fully building your Magic Guild discover that you don't have high level spells of that School. That simply sucked in H3 (and Academy in H5 too).
Secondly, it avoids factions always using the same Magic Schools like it happened in Heroes V.
That is actually a really good idea which I could definitely see working, and I agree that would solve a lot of the mess of having to fit all those schools into one town.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 03:52 PM |
|
|
alcibiades said:
If you change the font to courier it will keep the layout of the table in the final post.
Oh, thanks. I'll remember that.
JollyJoker said:
Bad idea. You'd see the same Light/Air bla in every Haven hero, and the chances to see a different build were way worse than in HoMM 5, where they were slim at best. That would be like giving each town 30 spells.
Well, It's true that Light and Air are very favored in that example, but that can be tweaked as I even mentioned. It's just that we need to keep some general lines for each faction. Like, it would be awkward to NOT have Light with Haven more than anything. Maybe the Air was a bit exaggerated, make it 30%, with the others 15%.
But I'd rather not focus the conversation on the numbers, but on the idea. The question is, is the idea of controlled randomness viable or not? I think it is. Numbers are just a means to a goal. You can make spells from certain schools to drop more often, the same or fewer times than others. It's just how you want it to be.
On the other hand, not having randomness between schools is something to be loathed. Where's the fun in that? Point is, do you want a game where you have to adapt and get the best out of your hand (DoC players would understand), or do you want a game where you can cherry pick what spells you get? I heavily favor the former.
|
|
foxxxer
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 04:16 PM |
|
|
@SG
I like your idea about racial element + annexes for the Mage Guilds (MG) but with some tweaks. In you proposal the MG provides 3 spells level 5 (L5). If every magic school has 2 spells L5 (similar to H5) then the chance is 50% to obtain one of them in the main MG which is too easy imo. This is valid for the annexes too (50% chance). But let assume that every mage guild provide 2 L5 spells and I’ll take the Haven as an example with Light + Prime for main MG and Air and Water for annexes. In this case you have 25% chance to get the spell you want in main MG. Then you can pick 2 out of 4 magic schools for annexes (assuming restriction for Dark). The second L5 spell will be provided among 4 spells (Air and Water in this case) which is also 25% chance. This approach can be applied for all factions (Sylvan: Earth + Prime and 2 annexes; Necro: Dark + Prime and 2 annexes and so on). Academy can be even more flexible. After they are not aligned to specific element you can pick element which will go with Prime when you build L1 main MG. Then you can build 2 annexes for other elemental schools. Also the L5 spells can be 3 (1 for the main MG and 1 for every annex) instead of 2.
Imo, your approach will work only if there are 3+ L5 spells per school which lead us to bigger amount of spells again.
@JJ
What do you mean abilities (your example Word of Light)? Ability as a perk linked to specific main skill or something else.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 04:31 PM |
|
|
I mean, as in HoMM 5: Power of Speed gives the Mass Haste Spell on Advanced Light Magic Level. Word of Light would be a light perk/ability, last tier, obviously with some "Righteous Wrath" prerequisites, that would give the hero the Word of Light spell - that would, other than Haste, not be available elsewhere.
If you played as Haven against Necro and Inferno - you'd grab it, but playing against Academy or Sylvans/Dwarves, no, thanks.
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 04:39 PM |
|
|
foxxxer said:
@SG
I like your idea about racial element + annexes for the Mage Guilds (MG) but with some tweaks. In you proposal the MG provides 3 spells level 5 (L5). If every magic school has 2 spells L5 (similar to H5) then the chance is 50% to obtain one of them in the main MG which is too easy imo. This is valid for the annexes too (50% chance). But let assume that every mage guild provide 2 L5 spells and I’ll take the Haven as an example with Light + Prime for main MG and Air and Water for annexes. In this case you have 25% chance to get the spell you want in main MG. Then you can pick 2 out of 4 magic schools for annexes (assuming restriction for Dark). The second L5 spell will be provided among 4 spells (Air and Water in this case) which is also 25% chance. This approach can be applied for all factions (Sylvan: Earth + Prime and 2 annexes; Necro: Dark + Prime and 2 annexes and so on). Academy can be even more flexible. After they are not aligned to specific element you can pick element which will go with Prime when you build L1 main MG. Then you can build 2 annexes for other elemental schools. Also the L5 spells can be 3 (1 for the main MG and 1 for every annex) instead of 2.
Imo, your approach will work only if there are 3+ L5 spells per school which lead us to bigger amount of spells again.
I probably failed at my explanation, since that's not the idea I have in my mind. Instead, to make it clear and simple, I'll express it with an example.
First, let me tell you that:
- There are only four spell levels. levels 3 and 4 are can only be learned with advanced/expert Magic School skill.
- A Magic Guild (or Annexe, they work exactly equally, I just name them differently to differentiate them from the main MS linked to that faction) gives 2 level 1 spells, 2 level 2, 1 level 3 and 1 level 4.
Haven
Magic Guild School: Light
Possible annexes: Air/Water/Earth/Fire/Prime
Magic Guild level 1: 2 Light spells
Magic Guild level 2: 2 Light spells
Magic Guild level 3: 1 Light spell
Magic Guild level 4: 1 Light spell
Light Magic School spells
Level 1
- Bless
- Haste
- Cleansing
Level 2
- Endurance
- Regeneration
- Mirth
Level 3
- Righteous Might
- Deflect Missile
- Song of Peace
Level 4
- Divine Vengeance
- Resurrection
- Prayer
So if we fully build our Magic Guild in our Haven town, we could get something like:
Bless & Haste
Regeneration & Mirth
Song of Peace
Ressurection
As spells. Each town woulg offer 12/18 spells (depending of if we allow 1 or 2 magic annexes per town, dev decision depending of game balance). Levels 1 & 2 could get 1 more spell, but remember that hero skill abilities/perks would also affect spells (more spell power, new effects, mass version of the spell) so it wouldn't be necessary to have a thousand spells in each Magic School
Edit: added this example to my initial proposal, it should be more clear now I hope
____________
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 04:50 PM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 16:54, 09 Sep 2014.
|
?JJ said:
I also advocated - if you read it through - for spells given via ability, because they are too situational or might want to be given in a more controlled way via a strict ability chain.
See what you're doing here? You're being inconsistent. Earlier you said that transitioning level-up points was a big no-no and that Heroes 6 snowed things up because of that. Now you're advocating the same concept.
No, keep spells out of the perk system. The only thing perks should influence is how the spells play, not learning them. I don't want another disaster.
JJ said:
For example, Word of Light is a spell I would want - but not in the guild, because it could be completely useless. So I would want it available as an ability.
LOL. And would getting it for a level-up point make it any less useless? It would be even more useless than before! You're just making it even more pointless to get.
In my book, worst case scenario is to have a perk specially improving WoL. But that wouldn't be any different than trading on skill point for another spell. That's why I think that perks should improve multiple spells, something you disagreed with in another post but left it at that.
It's complicated more than anything, because the best way to do things is to have more powerful specific perks for each spell in order to maximize potential. But that's limited by the number of level-up points firstly, and secondly, you can't really implement 15 perks for 15 spells in each school, it's ridiculous.
So the other option is to have more general perks that apply to several spells, like Heroes 5 did things. I think this is more reasonable. But there's a problem, that you are quite limited in thins endeavor, because there are a lot of less options when you want to improve more spells at the same time than just a single one.
But maybe middle ground can be found. Having perks that offer improvements to more than one spell, but individually. Now, would that really work...
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 05:00 PM |
|
|
Ah. So you think, when you play against Necro a spell that would damage every single stack of them for, say, Fireball damage wouldn't be worth a level-up point?
That's strange.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 05:14 PM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 17:15, 09 Sep 2014.
|
At the expense of one level-up point? When I can get it for free from the guild or via other ways and get Battle Frenzy instead? Hell no. You're giving me even more reasons to ignore it. I can live with it being useless in my spell book than having to skill it.
It's stranger how you come with a proposition that's basically copy-paste from Heroes 6. Which you even thoroughly demonized earlier. Weren't you saying that getting trading level-up points for spells was not worth it? Do you really want Heroes 6 all over again?
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 05:20 PM |
|
|
What I don't want is, getting Word of Light in the Mage Guild when I face neither Demons nor Undead.
What I want is, getting Word of Light against them.
So being able to pick it or leave it sounds good.
Other spells as well.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 05:34 PM |
|
|
So we should modify the entire skill system to fit your personal play style? Can't you, you know.. adapt? Or is WoL your only spell of choice when fighting undead? - which btw, it isn't that bright of an idea.
I think you best try make spells as relevant and beneficial as possible, rather than modify the way you acquire them. That won't fix the problem. Leave perks for improving them. Look, if you're so in love with WoL, then consider making a perk that would make it more useful in different situations. Like.. working on "non-holy" creatures too, working on mechanical, applying a "blinding light effects" of sorts...
I'm quite speechless, I didn't think you thought of the game in that way. You should really play DoC and have the best deception you could ask for. It'll make you see things differently
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 05:47 PM |
|
|
Stevie, you DID play HoMM 5, didn't you? You DO realize that this is what HoMM 5 did, just not with Word of Light, right?
What I REALLY wish for is the universal "Design your own HoMM" game. That would be something for everyone here.
|
|
Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 05:53 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
I think you best try make spells as relevant and beneficial as possible, rather than modify the way you acquire them. That won't fix the problem. Leave perks for improving them.
I agree with Stevie here. I heartily dislike very situational spells like Word of Light, and I prefer to have spells of more general use (it's also easier to balance).
Take a lookt at my Light Magic School example: while it was a copy of HV + a few spells from H4 Life School, I made sure the highest level was a good chocie of spells:
- Resurrection as the true 'good' Light spell, focused on bringing back troops from the death.
- Divine Vengance to give some damage based spell (but not as OP as in HV please)
- Prayer as a 'buff' oriented spell, maybe directly a mass version.
All three spells are useful on basically any situation, yet there are situations where you might one in particular (like DV against Stronghold )
____________
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 06:06 PM |
|
|
JollyJoker said:
What I don't want is, getting Word of Light in the Mage Guild when I face neither Demons nor Undead.
What I want is, getting Word of Light against them.
So being able to pick it or leave it sounds good.
Other spells as well.
I get the reasoning behind this. However, I would like to throw in that having some "bad" spells - or let's call them situational - is not necessarily that bad, because it adds a bit of luck into the investment of your mage guild, which can be a good thing for balance. Sure, it's not fun if too many trash spells clot the line-up, but if you're always guaranteed exactly the very best spells on every upgrade it soon becomes a no-brainer to max out spells.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 06:17 PM |
|
Edited by RMZ1989 at 18:17, 09 Sep 2014.
|
alcibiades said:
JollyJoker said:
What I don't want is, getting Word of Light in the Mage Guild when I face neither Demons nor Undead.
What I want is, getting Word of Light against them.
So being able to pick it or leave it sounds good.
Other spells as well.
I get the reasoning behind this. However, I would like to throw in that having some "bad" spells - or let's call them situational - is not necessarily that bad, because it adds a bit of luck into the investment of your mage guild, which can be a good thing for balance. Sure, it's not fun if too many trash spells clot the line-up, but if you're always guaranteed exactly the very best spells on every upgrade it soon becomes a no-brainer to max out spells.
It is good for low level spells, yes, but as JJ pointed out Word of Light is perfect example of this not working well in H5. Word of Light was level 5 Magic Guild spell, and if one spell is situational at best(so completely useless in this particular case) and you didn't pick spell school for second spell, you have 2 worthless spells and you got level 5 Magic guild for nothing.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted September 09, 2014 10:33 PM |
|
|
Well true, but the problem in the case of WoL was just as much that WoL shouldn't have been a level 5 spell but a level 4 spell instead. Divine Vengeance should have been level 5 instead of level 4 (I know DV was only introduced in ToE which was probably why WoL got the level 5 spot originally).
First of all, even if WoL had been sub-par / situational as a level 4 spell, if it was only one of three spells at this level (or even better, one of four spells, if more were added), this would imo. be an acceptable risk.
Secondly, I actually don't think WoL would have been sub-par as a level 4 spell - in fact, I would rate WoL higher than both Teleportation and Magical Immunity, both of which I would rate equally or even more situational.
____________
What will happen now?
|
| |
|
|
