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Heroes Community > Dimension Gates > Thread: Sins of Betrayal
Thread: Sins of Betrayal This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
Sorts
Sorts


Known Hero
posted September 11, 2014 10:51 PM
Edited by Sorts at 23:09, 11 Sep 2014.

[DoC] - Sins of Betrayal

https://www.duelofchampions.com/en/news/sobannouncement

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted September 11, 2014 11:01 PM

oh come on Sorts. you could have used the proper forum name format :-)

Can an admin change the topic's name to [DoC] - Sins of Betrayal :-)

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Sorts
Sorts


Known Hero
posted September 11, 2014 11:15 PM

Dave_Jame said:
oh come on Sorts. you could have used the proper forum name format :-)

Can an admin change the topic's name to [DoC] - Sins of Betrayal :-)


Yeah... my bad

Anyway the fact that we are getting the Griffin children as new heroes rises one interesting question. Who are we getting as the academy hero. Is Ariana, Chosen of The Void going to be hero or unique creature. So far they haven't "downgraded" heroes but who knows.

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RedEmperor30
RedEmperor30


Famous Hero
posted September 19, 2014 09:51 AM

okay guys, ive read the dev notes on changes coming up and i'm a little confused about 1st player, 2nd player...

Questions:-
1. 1st player hero cannot use hero ability or draw a card - can he still stat up?
2. the whole problem we experienced was 2nd player advantage, this was ofc because he had 2 res and could drop a creature first - as far as i can see 2nd player starts with 1 res, then if he decides to play coin +1 res, he has his 2res beginning which means nothing at all has changed, and 1st player has not been allowed to gain a card - am i getting this wrong because it seems like 1st player has been hit with a big sticok!!

Surely the solution here would have been, 1st player 1 res + coin [1st turn], 2nd player 2 res [1st turn] ??

CONFUSED!!!!

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2014 10:27 AM
Edited by RMZ1989 at 10:54, 19 Sep 2014.

Actually a lot has changed. Problem was that it went like this:
First turn:
First player - 1 res
Second player - 2 res

Second turn:
First player - 2 res
Second player - 3 res

Now after the changes:
First turn:
First player - 1 res
Second player - 1 res + crystal(which can be 1 damage or 1 res)

Second turn:
First player - 2 res
Second player - 2 res

That means that second player gets small resource advantage at the start because he didn't play first, but resources gain is equalized after first turn.

Now, Crystal can do three different things:
-give 1 resource
-draw 1 card
-deal 1 damage to the creature

Both heroes shouldn't be able to use draw and abilities in the first turn, so this should "balance it out".

EDIT:
BAHAHAHAHAHAH, this is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. Just read it on the official site, so only first player can't use ability nor to draw a card, while second gets this crystal + all of his abilities/draw powers/whatever. This is so f***ing retarded I have no words... I can't believe that they are so stupid.

So in the first turn, first player have 1 resource, and doesn't have creatures for 1 cost so he basically can't do anything, while second player uses his 1 resource to draw a card and uses crystal to draw a card and draws a card by default, so he is at 3 cards advantage.
This is freaking horrible. Then you have to use Week of Taxes to be able to counter second player's first turn, so he won't be able to use crystal, but then again if you are the second player you f*cked up yourself.

I really hope that this will be changed but since they've already posted it on official site it is doubtful. This is like the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Please somebody tell me that this isn't like that and that I am missing something huge and that I AM THE STUPID ONE, because if all this is true, they have no clue what they are doing.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted September 19, 2014 11:18 AM

The main difference here is that now, the 2nd player can't push his advantage
Until now, you had 1-2-3... vs 2-3-4... In a direct line the 2nd player had the 1 res advantage = stronger creaatures. If the first player had a 1 drop. it would be blocked by a 2 drop. If the 2nd player had a 2 drop with no creature on the board, the 1st player could only block with a creature of the same strenght
Now we have 1-2-3... vs 1(2)-2(3)-3(4)... when only one of the higher numbers can be used. this gives the first player the option to block with a stronger creature then the one on the battlefield.

I would still like the option to Use abilities and draw cards for the first player to be maintained. But never the less this is an improvement.

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RedEmperor30
RedEmperor30


Famous Hero
posted September 19, 2014 11:26 AM

you see what im saying RMZ???

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 19, 2014 11:29 AM
Edited by RMZ1989 at 11:33, 19 Sep 2014.

This is an improvement over the constant 1 more resource advantage for sure, but I don't see it as big improvement.
Second player now has more options what to do in his first turn, and most of the advantages came from first 2-3 turns of second player, later it doesn't matter much if you have 10 resources and he has 11...

It would be actually somewhat balanced if both players can do whatever they want in their first turn, but second player gets the crystal. Like this second player still has big advantage, and if anything, he has card advantage from the get go, that can go even further. Also, making crystal a fortune is pretty bad to be honest.

I don't think that this will be better at all to be honest.

@Red
Well, you were saying how nothing has changed because second player again can have 2 resources in first turn, which is true, but he doesn't get constant +1 resource each turn. That is the reason why I said that this was an improvement, then I realized that they have disabled everything for first player in first turn while kept everything for second. That doesn't make any sense.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted September 20, 2014 08:27 AM

I always thought a good balance would be to give the 1st player a crystal card that can increase resource +1 option...everything else status quo...

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2014 10:54 AM

DoubleDeck said:
I always thought a good balance would be to give the 1st player a crystal card that can increase resource +1 option...everything else status quo...

That wouldn't solve much because the first player would have the advantage of going first with equal resources, and then second player would still have the advantage for the rest of the game.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted September 21, 2014 07:44 AM

It doesn't matter...it's all about that first turn. Just think on turn 3, the first player has two 2 drops already down so has tempo as well.

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 21, 2014 10:47 AM

So you are saying that player that goes first will have the advantage? How is that balancing things out then?
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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RedEmperor30
RedEmperor30


Famous Hero
posted September 21, 2014 11:54 AM

i think the best balance option has been created, the 1 res - 1 res change, as you guys mentioned before the 1-2-3-4 vs 2-3-4-5 always had momentum shifted into 2nd player - THIS IS THE BIGGEST CHANGE.

I've thought about it, if 2nd player didnt have coin option, then 1st player has instant momentum.

as far as first player goes, i hope you can at least stat up?

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted September 21, 2014 02:23 PM

RedEmperor30 said:
i think the best balance option has been created, the 1 res - 1 res change, as you guys mentioned before the 1-2-3-4 vs 2-3-4-5 always had momentum shifted into 2nd player - THIS IS THE BIGGEST CHANGE.

I've thought about it, if 2nd player didnt have coin option, then 1st player has instant momentum.

as far as first player goes, i hope you can at least stat up?

Yes exactly. It should be just like in Hearthstone in my opinion, both players have equal resources each turn, but second player starts with crystal.

The thing is I think that both should be able to use abilities and card draw options OR neither of them should. Giving options to second player while first is left with none is stupid.

And yes, I think that first player can stat up.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted September 21, 2014 04:17 PM

I actually disagree about the first 3 turns opinion. It depends on the deck you are playing. Rush decks, Naga, Stronghold and Haven decks are common to win or loose in the first 3-4 turns, but Necro, Academi, some haven and inferno decks start to shine in late game and are more or less useless in the first turns.

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DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted September 22, 2014 07:58 AM

RMZ1989 said:
So you are saying that player that goes first will have the advantage? How is that balancing things out then?

I mean in my example, there could still be balance as 2nd player has 2-3-4-5 resource growth. 1st player would have 1-2-3-4 but with bonus card to increase resource by +1. So 1st player could have momentum with 2 x 2 drops on board by third turn, but lose it later on...just an example I could be wrong.

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NamelessOrder
NamelessOrder


Famous Hero
posted October 14, 2014 10:47 PM

Old Zefiria in the Pit
____________
Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa

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RMZ1989
RMZ1989


Supreme Hero
posted October 18, 2014 11:16 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReOhaqVTzKM&list=UURqh497V9eNUBWcSxOvg_Og

Well Poly, I can see that you are quite popular.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.

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RedEmperor30
RedEmperor30


Famous Hero
posted October 18, 2014 11:40 AM

Poly is our resident superstar, n1 poly!! Ps can you sign a yukiko hero card and send it to me!!!

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted October 18, 2014 12:03 PM

Compared to him I look like a useless amature :-D Respect poly ;-)

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