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| Thread: [H3] Cannot get rid of Lord Haart (the knight) | |
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TaneNorther
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 30, 2014 09:54 PM |
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[H3] Cannot get rid of Lord Haart (the knight)
Hi.
I was finishing up this particular XL map for HOMM III: SoD. I was thinking to add some spice to it, and making several usually non-available heroes available to be recruited on taverns.
The scenario is 2vs2, and Good (Rampart, Castle, Tower available at the setup screen) VS. Evil (Dungeon, Necropolis, Inferno).
So I go into (in the Map Editor) Tools -> Map Specifications -> Heroes,
and tick a couple of normally disabled heroes to be available to be recruited by either team (including Lord Haart, listed as Death Knight). In my map, good heroes can only be recruited (at tavern) by good alignment players, and evil heroes by evil alignment players (I ticked/un-ticked them one-by-one at "Heroes"-menu in HOMM3 Map editor).
I wanted Lord Haart to be a special extra hero to be recruited by evil alignment players. While he's listed on "Heroes" menu in map editor, hes on the same bunch as Death Knights, and is set up as such (you cannot chance him into his Knight version here).
Now what happened when I made him available is this:
-I started up game, played a while, and he became available to be recruited at Necropolis (evil player), but as his "good" aligned version (Knight), not the Death Knight.
At this point I realized that there must be a bug in the map editor, so that when you tick Lord Haart in the "Heroes"-menu it makes both, the Knight, and the Death Knight versions available to the game. I would assume they both have separate "files", or "profiles" coded of them inside the game - meaning both are their own different hero, but at some reason the map editor's "Heroes"-menu enables them both (the both profiles).
What makes it interesting, though, is that by disabling Lord Haart at "Heroes"-menu again and saving the map for a new try, it only seems to remove the Death Knight version, but to keep Knight version of Lord Haart (which cannot be disabled from map editor at all, if you ticked and enabled Lord Haart previously in the first place!).
Well, how do I that the Knight is still in the game even though I disabled Lord Haart from the Heroes-menu (after enabling it once)? Because, when selecting map in HOMM3 and setting up the game, while Lord Haart now is disabled for the map in the map editor, when selecting Castle and being able to pick a starting-hero (for a "random hero"-object placed on the map), the Lord Haart the Knight is available to be selected as a starting-hero.
I have several other heroes, which are normally disabled, enabled for the map. Not single one of them are able to be selected as a starting hero (for example the ones for Tower, Rampart, Inferno, such as Gelu and Xeron). But Lord Haart just refuses to be removed from the map, even when disabled again.
Is there any way I can:
1) Get Lord Haart's Knight version out of the map after once enabling him in Map Editors "Heroes"-menu (which only shows the Death Knight version listed, but seems to enable the both), so that he would disappear from Castle's available heroes to be chosen for a starting-hero (Random Hero-object at the map)?
2) If so, is there any way to enable only the Death Knight version of Lord Haart to be able to be recruited at taverns (so that his Knight profile stays inactivated)?
-Quicknote: It's impossible to put him unreachable place in the map as hero, or to prison, and to eliminate him from the starting menu that way, because he isn't listed available on Knight-object's(hero) or prison-object's menu in the map editor(as A Knight, is as a Death Knight, if ticked and selected available for the map).
As a quick SUMMARY, you cannot add the Knight version in the map editor to a map by adding "Knight"(hero)-object to the map and then selecting Lord Haart from the list of available knights, because his knight version doesn't show up in the menu there, at all. You seem to be unable to remove his knight version from "Heroes"-menu in the editor, too, if you happen to enable Lord Haart once at the menu (only one of his profiles is listed there, the Death Knight, but activates both of the 2 profiles for the map). Knight version becomes automatically available for all players, neverminding which players you set it to be available for at the Heroes-menu at the map editor (Death Knight, which applies to both of the two profiles).
Hopefully I was able to explain this understandably enough. I have tried to Google on this matter without any luck, and board search didn't answer it, either. Experienced map makers might have stumbled upon the same subject before me, though. Any help would be highly appreciated, as even though a little thing, I'd like starting-hero selections to be logical (it's not, if Castle has Lord Haart, but the rest do not have extra heroes available at map selection menu), and I'd like the extraordinary heroes to be available only by some luck with tavern recruits, or a prison - definitely not at the start of the map. Plus, I'd really want him as a Death Knight ONLY. Now, if happens to appear as both Knight and Death Knight similarly in the map, that would be a real immersion-breaker. My backups of the map goes too far back to even consider that option for removing him of the map, since the problem laid rather subtle way on the background for a long time before I noticed it.
Thanks.
The only version of Lord Haart in the map editor, same applies on every object's listing. Ticking and selecting the Death Knight-version seems to enable the Knight-version similarly (an unwanted effect). However returning to map editor and disabling Lord Haart seems to only disable the Death Knight version, leaving his Knight-version (estates-hero) still available to be selected, at least on the map-selection menu by Castle. Can't find way to disable his Knight version anymore.
With Lord Haart now enabled (the Death Knight version, which is the only one listed in map editor under "Heroes" tab), you cannot find him as a Knight listed within properties of a Knight(hero)-object. However, enabling this Death Knight-version in question at the map editor will make his Knight-version available to be recruited at taverns, and to be selected by Castle in map-selection scene (before the map loads).
Lord Haart the Death Knight (only version listed of him in the map editor, which seems to activate both versions) now disabled in the map editor after priorly enabling him once, his Knight-version still can be found to be recruitable by Castle in the map-selection screen, and cannot be disabled. Still untested, whether the Knight version also is to be found at Taverns, too.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 30, 2014 10:21 PM |
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It is nearly impossible to get Lord Haart (the estates specialist) on map. There is a trick a few maps use, as disabling all knights then place a random hero in editor with "knight" class checked, but is tedious and does not fit to all ideas.
A simple way would be to install Era (wog +) then use its erm capabilities to enable Lord Haart in tavern. And if you want only this feature from wog, either disable other scripts or use SoD mod.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted September 30, 2014 10:24 PM |
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How did you revive your account?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 30, 2014 10:26 PM |
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TaneNorther
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 30, 2014 10:30 PM |
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Salamandre said:
It is nearly impossible to get Lord Haart (the estates specialist) on map. There is a trick a few maps use, as disabling all knights then place a random hero in editor with "knight" class checked, but is tedious and does not fit to all ideas.
A simple way would be to install Era (wog +) then use its erm capabilities to enable Lord Haart in tavern. And if you want only this feature from wog, either disable other scripts or use SoD mod.
I understand, but the actual problem, as explained above (for rather lengthy way, sorry about that) wasn't actually getting him in the map (the Knight/estates version).
Once I enabled Lord Haart listed as Death Knight in the map editor's "Heroes"-menu (The Death Knight that is found at there, the editor doesn't show his Knight-version under any listing, so I assume it's a "bug" and that enabling Death Knight-version somehow similarly enables the Knight-version, but disabling Death Knight-version again, doesn't disable the Knight-version but leaves it hanging on the map), the Castle can now recruit his Knight version at the beginning in the starting menu, before the map loads. I don't want the Knight version in the map, at all. The problem is now getting rid of the Knight version of Lord Haart available for Castle, at the map-selection-menu (equals to starting-menu).
Disabling Lord Haart on the map editor's "Heroes"-menu (once I had already ticked and enabled him once) doesn't seem to remove his Knight version from the starting menu as a hero available to be chosen by Castle.
This my my first problem I'd like to solve way or another.
The another step would then be able to get Lord Haart's Death Knight version ONLY in the map, so that the Knight version isn't available anywhere, not even at the map-selection menu in the game prior to loading the actual map (where he now can be found by selecting Castle first, even if the whole here is disabled on by the map editor). But one step at the time, I guess. Now I just want to get rid of the Knight version.
There's probably a bug with Lord Haart in the map editor, as he cannot be found on many listing as Knight (estates) hero, at all, but can be found as Death Knight. Activating Death Knight, however, seems to also activate similarly the Knight version for the map, but disabling him again, seems to only disable Death Knight version, still leaving the Knight in the map (at least for map-selection menu). I cannot find a way to get rid of Lord Haart the Knight. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 30, 2014 10:40 PM |
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Yeah, it looks like death-knight Haart and knight Haart are dependent, probably a bug in code.
I don't think can be solved in SoD (you have only 1 option: check/uncheck the hero). You need a code to overwrite the bug (era)
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Era II mods and utilities
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted September 30, 2014 10:47 PM |
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I think Lord Haart only starts to appear if the pool of available heroes on a map is too low, but not sure
you might have unchecked too many heroes or made too many unavailable for a certain player,
check the verify map thing and play around with stuff if it warns you there are too few heroes
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TaneNorther
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 30, 2014 10:58 PM |
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verriker said:
I think Lord Haart only starts to appear if the pool of available heroes on a map is too low, but not sure
you might have unchecked too many heroes or made too many unavailable for a certain player,
check the verify map thing and play around with stuff if it warns you there are too few heroes
I thought so too, and at first, it was this way, as I had some prisons with Knights, and one Green hero (a static team who doesn't really play the map, and is different team of the one who can select Lord Haart in the starting-menu), but I changed all prisoners into neutral aligned heroes, and Adele to a Barbarian hero.
But I already did changes to that and tested several times without any change what so ever.
I've triple checked, and no prison or Green team (static team) hero is Knight anymore. I have not disabled any of the regular Knight heroes, checked this too. I have added Catherine available, though. I tried with Sir Mullich available and removed, no effect. Roland is disabled (as usual). All the rest heroes are made available, and none of them is already placed in the map.
This bugs the hell out of me. 
EDIT: did also check just in case that I hadn't dropped a Knight somewhere on the map by accident, by adding a Seer's Hut and then browsing it's properties menu for "Defeat a Specific hero". No a knight accidentally dropped somewhere on the map. Humm.
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TaneNorther
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 30, 2014 11:14 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Yeah, it looks like death-knight Haart and knight Haart are dependent, probably a bug in code.
I don't think can be solved in SoD (you have only 1 option: check/uncheck the hero). You need a code to overwrite the bug (era)
Oh man. Well, thanks for looking into this. This makes me kind of frustrated, since I cannot seem to disable his Knight version again, and certainly didn't want it on available to be chosen at map-selection screen.
I was planning to include Gelu, Catharine, and Dracon, as recruitable heroes from a tavern for the "Good" side (none of them on at the map selection-menu, though). 1 for each "Good" race available for the map. And in correspondence to add Lord Haart(Death Knight), Xyron, and Mutare as the "Evil" side's tavern-heroes.
Seeing now that Haart has fallen into the good side (1 of the supposed Evil heroes unavailable, 1 more to the good teams), rather forcefully, and I cannot do anything about it, unbalances things a bit - even more since I cannot remove him from the map-selection screen (not sure if he's at taverns, too). And I certainly cannot add his Death Knight version into the map now, either, or it could by some bad luck lead into Lort Haart the Death Knight Vs. Lord Haart the Good Knight battle on the map - that would be way too amusing.
Stinky situation. Nothing I can do, I guess...
Well, if someone still happens by some lottery to know any way around this, please post and let me know.
EDIT: Changing name of Lord Haart The Deathknight in the map editor doesn't seem to change the name of the Knight(estates)-version. So I guess, that ticking the Death Knight profile available at the editor's "Heroes" tab just activates the two separate profiles of Lord Haart (Knight and The Death Knight, both, probably called from different file, each of them). They are probably meant to be listed separately in the editor too, but the Knight(estates hero)-listing is somehow missing of all the lists under the editor. So, once activated, it cannot be inactivated. It probably could, if it was just included in the lists of the editor.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted September 30, 2014 11:20 PM |
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In Data folder, open H3bitmap.lod with MM archive, extract:
HeroSpec.txt
HOTRAITS.TXT
Open them with text editor (not notepad), then change in both files all data concerning knight Haart. Change his name, specialty and starting army, save, place in Data folder, play.
He will still appear but as new hero with your custom name. That's the less complicate solution.
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Era II mods and utilities
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TaneNorther
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 30, 2014 11:47 PM |
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Salamandre said:
In Data folder, open H3bitmap.lod with MM archive, extract:
HeroSpec.txt
HOTRAITS.TXT
Open them with text editor (not notepad), then change in both files all data concerning knight Haart. Change his name, specialty and starting army, save, place in Data folder, play.
He will still appear but as new hero with your custom name. That's the less complicate solution.
Thanks. I checked it out. Interesting that Haart's both versions are included there, but not in the map editor.
The problem still persist, in a way, though, since there would be non-standard hero to be selected by Castle in the beginning (with a gamecode modification, which I don't like, since I'm planning to share my maps at some point if they are, at least, decent, in which case I hate all weird oddities and flaws in the maps, such as this case with L.Haart). I'm rather perfectionist with these things, so it would not fix it for me, but it's good to know that is one way to have some sort of an impact, also. I still couldn't access to the specifics (with MM archive and the txt.files) of which players can recruit Haart's Knight(estates) version. This modified "Good" version of him would probably be still available on both good and evil teams (which is the default setting in the map editor).
I need to confirm whether the "Good" version of Haart is now left on my map only for map-selection menu for Castle, or is it recruitable by every each tavern of all 4(+1static) teams, as well. If so, it stands out in a rather bad way, as I've aligned all other heroes in a way, that "evil" heroes are only available for "evil" teams, while "good" heroes are available for "good" teams. Afterall, the small story is tied to good vs. evil, so Knight Haart doesn't really fit on the evil team.
-Edit: And confirmed, The "Good" Lord Haart the Knight is available for any team to be recruited from tavern, despite Death Knight version of him (the only version visible in the editor) on the map editor is only set to be available for Teams 1 and 2 (the evil aligned teams). Darn it! I also installed and opened the map in WoG map editor, if it had this issue patched. I thought that if I just changed this minor thing with Lord Haart's two versions, the map would still function in normal SoD. Nope, the map editor's "Heroes"-tab in WoG map-editor still holds the same problem as the original map editor. Only Death Knight Haart can be found there, of which once enabled, enables also the Knight version, which cannot be reversed later on (on the part of the Knight version). So WoG map editor also misses the listing of Knight version of Lord Haart, and obviously it's properties. Nope, cannot edit Knight-version of that hero there either.
I can still get both Haarts on the map with different names, without modifying the actual game code, by finding Lord Haart The Death Knight at the map editor and changing his name, which doesn't seem to change the Knight's(estates) name similarly. But it's a small flaw, if "Good" Haart is recruit-able by all players, since the hero seems to be in the map for good, and I cannot access it's detailed map-related properties. Once done, it seems to be irreversible and impossible to modify at any level.
The available heroes pool is probably written into the map-file's code somewhere. Wish I knew how to edit that... 
So, a word of warning for all map editors out there, who run the original version of the game and it's map editor (up to SoD). Do not ever add Lord Haart in your map, unless you are sure that you want the "Good" version, Lord Haart The Knight to be available for each player of the map at the tavern, and to be available for Castle aligned player right from the starting menu! For WoG, the map editor does hold same problems as Knight-version is missing on the tab under Map Specifications->Heroes, thus cannot be accessed, but the values could be accessed once the map has started.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 01, 2014 12:42 AM |
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Well, no, your advice is not correct.
In WoG we can code any hero name, skills, availability, death, stats and so on. In WoG there is no problem altering lord Haart after map starts.
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