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Heroes Community > Turban Tribunal > Thread: HC Homepage Upgraded
Thread: HC Homepage Upgraded This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT»
Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted October 07, 2014 10:44 PM

Design: It seems that the background solution is liked by a number of users. I also prefer it to the white or light gray background. I'd like to offer a QP token of thanks to Radar for coming up with the original idea. I've also given a QP to LizardWarrior for drawing up some neat design ideas. I won't have time to implement them now, but maybe some day, who knows.

I will be applying the new design to the forumdisplay pages as well for consistency. Viewthread pages will stay wide because the width is useful there for reading and displaying images. I realize that there are still probably some people who don't like the changes even with background improvements, but this is a relatively minor change and we can't be stuck in the past for too long. To put things into perspective, this is not the type of disaster overhaul like the one that happened recently on GOG - these guys had a solid and attractive old school design and threw it out completely in favor of an extremely bland, gray and soulless design. Their site now feels like a generic cellphone app.

More updates: I've tidied up the links bar in the header and added Heroes 7 links for the forum and the new Heroes 7 wiki.

Sentiment: It is a shame that some people have chosen to take certain words and sentences in my last reply out of context. A word or sentence needs to be read in the context of the paragraph that contains it.

I also do not agree with the logic whereby I am supposed to put up with condescending negativity towards my work. I will not. There are good examples of constructive feedback here from people who do not like the changes, and that is what I want to see. These constructive comments have led to identifying a problem and making improvements.

Adblockers: I am not invalidating the good aspects of using an adblocker. There are some sites that have dangerous advertising content, but most of the sites that do not deal with warez, torrents and porn do not have such malicious ads. There are also a number of web sites that have huge amounts of advertising in order to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of the users with no regard for their comfort. Personally, I use the Ghostery plugin that lets me selectively disable various trackers, social media plugins and ad networks that I don't want to profile me.

Adblocking for these reasons is valid for personal safety and enjoyment (concerns for personal wellbeing). However, a responsible internet user also ought to consider how a web site that they are enjoying supports its upkeep and development - this is a concern for the web site's wellbeing. I think that a responsible internet user must find a way to balance these two concerns when it comes to web sites they use very frequently.

From your messages I realize that in most cases adblock is enabled by default and the user never considered how HC supports its upkeep and development, and does not know that there is only 1 banner per page and that it is from a safe gaming ad network. Making periodic posts to remind users is not practical nor self-respecting, so I will think about some other solutions. I found out that it is possible to detect if the user is using an adblocker.

As few of you suggested, a small supporter subscription that removes all ads from HC when the user is logged in is probably the best idea. It could be something small like $10 per year. What do you think about this? And is there anything that could go in the place of the banner for ad-free supporters?

I may implement adblocker detection which shows internal ads for HC games when an adblocker is detected, also rotated with a banner that shows the possibility of being an ad-free supporter. These internal ads will not have any risks and will bypass adblockers.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 07, 2014 11:02 PM

Yearly fee. No ads.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 07, 2014 11:04 PM
Edited by artu at 23:06, 07 Oct 2014.

I think no matter how small, a fee will reduce participation drastically. Most old-timers who only drop every once in a while now, will stop to log in completely, a lot of curious new-comers, potential good members with fresh ideas and conversation will not become a member to begin with. (Would you?) So, it will have a boring and repetitive effect on the content in the long run.


Besides, not all of use international credit cards.  

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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 07, 2014 11:05 PM

Loving the new background.
Hating the new colour in the HoMM links panel. The dark red is completely out of context in comparison with the rest of the design I feel.
Could we perhaps get the respective logos of the games there or would they become unreadable in such a small space?


It's a dicey slope down there with sponsors and ads, tread carefully.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 07, 2014 11:11 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 23:32, 07 Oct 2014.

The idea of implementing Adblock detector which will notify the user will return against HC.

The Net is a creepy place where the toxic behaviors outmatch the upright ones. Not using Antivirus and Adblock is now equivalent to going out on a snowy day without hat and clothes. When I join some site and I am advertised about my Adblock not being desired, I run away asap and never return. I don't trust someone who openly scans my hardware.

I have a friend who went for a different compromise for a forum he administrates. He coded 1% of clicks to display banner on the top of clicked link. Fair enough.


Yearly fee: delicate issue. I wouldn't pay, even if it was 1 cent. Is not a money problem, but about why I joined, what I did over years then shared, this kind of things.

But I fully understand your concerns, as I just bought a domain + web hosting myself last week (wakeofgods.org) and had to setup it, think at monthly cost and how to balance out. As it is mainly site for fans and people sharing my passions, it will not be possible to get a positive income from, without penalizing them in a way of another.

But that's it, will pay for as long as I can. Then close.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted October 07, 2014 11:17 PM

like Maurice, I really don't understand exactly how you make any money from advertising here, because I assume one would need to do more than just see the banners to somehow generate cash, but I never click on any of those banners and simply never will

if you could try to clearly explain how and where the money from ads comes from, and also clarify whether you're trying to make any profit on this fansite or just using ad revenue to cover server charges, it would help to understand your mentality a bit

in any case I'm probably not turning my adblocker off, sorry if that's parasitic but that's just my personal choice, and since I don't click on ads I don't currently feel any ethical obligation or guilt trip here, unless the money is literally used only to cover upkeep and server costs (again an explanation for dummies like me might clear this up though lol)

I view ads as mind pollution in general, and to be brutally honest would just find another workaround or another Heroes fan forum if you try to put in ads on top of the ads, adception lol

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted October 07, 2014 11:19 PM

I dont think the dark red is distasteful. It stands out, yes, but that's the point I guess and it's not a color that spoils the harmony.  It's also practical to see the game titles instantly.

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Zeki
Zeki


Supreme Hero
sup
posted October 07, 2014 11:30 PM

Valeriy said:
I will be applying the new design to the forumdisplay pages as well for consistency. Viewthread pages will stay wide because the width is useful there for reading and displaying images.

Excellent

Valeriy said:

More updates: I've tidied up the links bar in the header and added Heroes 7 links for the forum and the new Heroes 7 wiki.

Like it, nice and tidy.

artu said:
I think no matter how small, a fee will reduce participation drastically. Most old-timers who only drop every once in a while now, will stop to log in completely, a lot of curious new-comers, potential good members with fresh ideas and conversation will not become a member to begin with. (Would you?) So, it will have a boring and repetitive effect on the content in the long run.


Besides, not all of use international credit cards.  

I think he didn't mean to have all members pay in order to stay here, it's only an additional thing if you don't want adds but still want to support HC
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted October 07, 2014 11:35 PM

donations are one thing. fees are another. i wouldn't be here if i had to pay. i've never had any site owner/forum moderator of a site that i've ever been a part of, tell me to disable something that made my browsing more safe, in order for them to profit from me. this is the only site that i've ever seen this kind of behavior from a site owner.

when i'm on the internet, i always run things with everything turned off by default, and then turn something on if i want to view a video with the sound added. otherwise, i get no sound. i usually only have something disabled long enough to see one video/movie, before it is re-enabled.

as far as my browsing behavior when i'm on hc, i'm here and gone quickly(to other sites, then i'll come back sporadically), and it would be impractical for me to enable what you would need to collect any monetary gain from me, when most of the time i'm only here for a few minutes at most, reading the latest posts before disappearing again. what i mean to say is, i don't spend enough solid time on hc, typically, to make sense disabling any internet protection during my visit, and then enabling it once again, when i leave.

that said, when i know i'm going to be on hc for awhile, i'll disable what you need to collect your funds. i wouldn't want hc to go under or anything. i like this place.

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Valeriy
Valeriy

Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
posted October 08, 2014 12:36 AM

I suggest reading my message more carefully as I did not propose a membership fee. Would be good to get more feedback for what I actually proposed.

"I don't trust someone who openly scans my hardware" - most of the web sites on the internet incorporate a Google Analytics tracker (not AOH/HC, because I'm opposed to it). Google Analytics collects and stores a lot of information, and it is not stopped by Adblock. This information can be compiled with other information Google collects about you such as Google search, Youtube, maps search, Gmail, Android use, etc. On the other hand, detecting whether a user is using adblock is as harmless as detecting their browser version, which even default web hosting cpanel visitor logs already do. You might be afraid of an ant here while not noticing the elephant behind your back.

By the way, if you are interested to host a heroes-related site on AOH, let me know. We've had a contributor who was making a WOG section on AOH, but unfortunately he abandoned it before completion.

Most of the ads are click-based. While some people are determined not to click any ads, most people aren't and that is how revenue is generated. However, it is not a good idea to just click the ads to help the site. Advertisers will notice if clicks are not turning into players and can stop their campaigns, so "helpful clicking" could actually harm the site in the long run. The banner advertisements are meant to be clicked only if the viewer is interested to learn more about the game that is shown on the banner.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted October 08, 2014 12:56 AM
Edited by Corribus at 00:56, 08 Oct 2014.

The ads here are so unobtrusive. I honestly can't believe they would be a bother to anyone. I hardly notice them.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 08, 2014 01:07 AM

Yeah but it looks like if you don't click then register (pay obviously) then it does not really count.

Is partnership still up between HC and ToH? I mean, R. Simyar, with his 3 Bugatti's in his yard and probably the most (financially) active Heroes fan until not long ago, would not let HC go down. His tournament is still up while no activity in the last 3 years.


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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted October 08, 2014 01:12 AM

Valeriy said:
I suggest reading my message more carefully as I did not propose a membership fee. Would be good to get more feedback for what I actually proposed.


i was referring to this, valeriy:

Valeriy said:
As few of you suggested, a small supporter subscription that removes all ads from HC when the user is logged in is probably the best idea. It could be something small like $10 per year. What do you think about this? And is there anything that could go in the place of the banner for ad-free supporters?


when i mentioned a fee, the $10 is what i was referring to. this was my feedback for that idea. or is that not a fee?

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Armagerwin's Blade
posted October 08, 2014 01:21 AM

well as long as you understand that I'm never going to be dumb enough to click any ads, because I'll never ever be interested in them and have them blocked for that reason (among others), it follows that you just don't get money from me going this route, adblock or no adblock

that's just the way it is lol, it may suck, but there's no guilt trip matter of being a responsible user or ethical or not, it's just a case that the ads are there to make money but just don't coincide with our pretty reasonable browsing precautions

anyway, rather than trying to punish users who adblock by forcing ads on them in bad faith, I've be much more willing to actually donate to the site in with a donate button in good faith,
but I would have to have solid proof that the money would be strictly used only to pay for server costs, and literally none of it goes into the admin's pocket for personal use

otherwise there is another ethics issue, of a fan making financial gains from a fansite steeped in Ubisoft's intellectual property, which would be possibly illegal and unfair to the community at large (not saying that is the case, just it hypotetically would be lol)

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted October 08, 2014 02:54 AM
Edited by Corribus at 02:54, 08 Oct 2014.

fred79 said:
when i mentioned a fee, the $10 is what i was referring to. this was my feedback for that idea. or is that not a fee?

$10 for you, personally, if you want to visit the site without ads. That's not a membership fee. That's a price you can pay, voluntarily, if you don't want to look at ads. You could still visit HC without paying a dime, but then you have to look at ads.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 08, 2014 03:32 AM

verriker said:
but I would have to have solid proof that the money would be strictly used only to pay for server costs, and literally none of it goes into the admin's pocket for personal use


Wow, the typical Net scrounger arrogance, to risk the question about personal enrichment up to asking for a "solid proof". HC is 13 yo already without any fees, your interest in HC is represented by a merely hundred posts and you talk like you know smting?

And btw, designing and coding a site is hard and long. Professionals take up to 1000 $$ to create a HC like forum, just checked this week. I would certainly not be shocked if the guy who does all this job gets an extra restaurant from income.
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fred79
fred79


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
SCOURGE OF THE H-SEA
posted October 08, 2014 04:10 AM

Corribus said:
$10 for you, personally, if you want to visit the site without ads. That's not a membership fee. That's a price you can pay, voluntarily, if you don't want to look at ads. You could still visit HC without paying a dime, but then you have to look at ads.


i understand that, i got that the first time around. that's still a fee, by my understanding of the word.

whatever happens, happens. i'll deal with it regardless.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 08, 2014 06:24 AM
Edited by mvassilev at 06:26, 08 Oct 2014.

I'm willing to pay a larger yearly fee personally (i.e. regardless of whether anyone else pays), but only if the old homepage is restored. Regardless, those who are paying the fee should have some say in how HC is run. Removing ads alone isn't enough.
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Eccentric Opinion

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JoonasTo
JoonasTo


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted October 08, 2014 07:28 AM

mvassilev said:
Regardless, those who are paying the fee should have some say in how HC is run.

This is eactly the probem.
Think long and hard if you want to get into this mess.
Money creates problems, always. When there's a larger disagreement on a site, even if it started from something else completely, it always culminates into money.
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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted October 08, 2014 07:47 AM

You could always put a donation meter in the top right corner with a paypal adress next to it. Just put some information there to tell how much the quarterly server costs are. That will dispense all the fears of doing it for monetary gain.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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