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| Thread: Should we vote about everything in this game? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 09:54 AM |
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Didn't play H6, so I'm more going by other people's opinions for those campaigns, but for H5, seriously? I think it's the general opinion that Idiotbel is the most hated character in the whole franchise.
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LRN
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 10:53 AM |
bonus applied by Elvin on 15 Nov 2014. |
Edited by LRN at 12:26, 14 Nov 2014.
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MattII said:
Didn't play H6, so I'm more going by other people's opinions for those campaigns, but for H5, seriously? I think it's the general opinion that Idiotbel is the most hated character in the whole franchise.
Oh, she's an utter mess, no doubt. But if I may explain myself...
1)HOMM 2 was good for what it was. A tad simplistic at times but it had atmosphere, gave us choices and the option to switch sides and backstab our employer. Not the most multilayered story, but it will always be dear to me. And the intro remains my favourite(oh dear, all those terrible, accidents...). Archibald was a good for the moustache-twirling villain he was. Price of loyalty didn't grab me though.
2) This is where I get blasphemous...but I found most HOMM3 campaigns rather lackluster. They had their high points, of course, but as a whole...Restoration of Erathia was average at best, with Catherine lacking personality as far as I was concerned-no Roland or Archibald she. Liked Deyjans getting over their heads. Armageddon's Blade campaigns were very hit and miss. The Shadow of Death? Oh, this was mostly good. But you know why Idiotbel is not my most hated character? It's Gem's fault. That. Utter. Idiot. Sandro almost telegraphs his intentions and still...Gelu's part was really dull as well. And what's worse, both were Ramparts fighting Necro forces again. And again. And again. And again. Crag Hack and Sandro, though? Oh, they were FUN.
I never played Chronicles.
3)I wrote as a whole...which is a very important factor. See, H4 has the best two campaigns. Tawni Balfour's remains my absolute favourite, and Gauldoth's is another excellent one. Emilia's was really good too if slightly too long. But as a whole? H4 vanilla had a major weakness, and that was that every campaign was a civil war affair. Each and every one. And the expansions....DON'T get me started about the expansions' stories.Bohbs and Tarkins. Sheesh.
4)H5 vanilla was...rather average. Isabel was stupid, Findan was VERY, VERY annoying, but I was good with the remaining ones(admittedly, I prefrrred Ragael as Agrael here). But really, it was Tribes of the East that gave us two really good ones with Arantir and Gotai(despite the Orc speech), especially the first one(comparable to Gauldoth's). Zehir's flamboyant mediocrity had to raise its head again, though.
So...without the expansions, I consider H4 much better storywise (as H5 is burdened with Haven's and Sylvan's, not to mention that the Academy is not really an Academy one  . Counting them, though,I slightly favour H5. Perhaps I'm being unfair doing that.
5)H6... Yes, some of its lines were quite hit or miss. But as a whole I still find it the best one-no real dud, and better defined characters, with its share of subplots(far surpassing its same-world equivalent, H5, despite both featuring invading demons)and its share of choices(none as important as 2's big one, though  ). The fact that the campaigns were not in chronological order was another plus for me. Could they be implemented better? Sure. But I was content. I found the expansions good too-Ashan's Crag hack and Sandro were implemented well as far as I was concerned, and Ragael was a much better character this time.
6)So, all in all...I find H6's campaigns the best, storywise, as a whole. But nothing beats Tawni 
Now, I'm sure you will disagree. That's perfectly all right  . I just hope you won't find me utterly unreasonable.
P.S. Now you got me all nostalgic .
P.S.P.S. Can we have a vote for a H3-style tavern, already?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 14, 2014 11:55 AM |
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LRN said:
Now, I'm sure you will disagree. That's perfectly all right . I just hope you won't find me utterly unreasonable.
Indeed, I disagree . But only partially, you make some good points.
In H3, the vanilla campaigns were okay'ish, mediocre. The AB campaigns were indeed hit-or-miss. I absolutely loved The Festival Of Life, with Dragon Slayer as a good contender. The one with Adria, as she's chasing Lord Haart, is a nice one too, but there's one mission in the campaign which is really a trek through a swamp (and I mean to play it, it just goes on and on), the one were you have to flag all creature dwellings in 7 months. That map is the sole reason I dislike playing the campaign.
Shadow of Death is a nice expansion, which starts off refreshing, but becomes a bore eventually because throughout all campaigns, the main enemy is Necro. Necro. Necro. Did I mention Necro? Also, the heroes all appear extremely gullible, not realising the potential harm they could cause by collecting the items Sandro requires of them. Transition of Heroes between campaigns is also an extreme let-down, where you get semi-premade Heroes (with usually crappy skills in the mix) instead of the ones you carefully selected in the previous campaigns.
If you ever get the chance to play the Heroes Chronicles games, do so. The stories are each fairly good. Perhaps the only letdown is that you get so involved within each campaign, that you are hoping for references to previous campaigns as you progress, just to tie the whole Chronicles series together. But besides the overall story arc of Tarnum, the campaigns are fairly stand-alone with respect to all the side characters that appear (either ingame or in quest texts); besides Tarnum, characters that really grew on you in one campaign will never be mentioned in the next.
I can't really comment on Heroes4, since I disliked that game, for gameplay reasons. Some of the stories are really good, others somewhat less.
In Heroes5, the only thing I seriously disliked about Isabel is how stupid she was to trust Markel in returning Nicolai to her. In a world where Necromancy and Undeath have a place, it is totally unbelievable that she couldn't have known in what form or shape Markel would have brought Nicolai back from the dead. I actually liked Zehir, by the way  . Really enjoyed his campaigns.
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted November 14, 2014 10:47 PM |
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Different campaign story throughout different game different opinion reasonable. I personally see it from another angle. H2-H3-H4 was more immersive in the sense that the hero feel was present.
In H4 I had the feeling I was a hobbit living in the shire with that beautiful music and scenery. True the game took some bold choice but I could still feel I was playing a heroes game.
H5 was somewhat in between in that regard. 6 totally lost me. Not that it was a bad game but some choice touched key stone of a heroes games core element. We could start to see a glimpse of attempt at balancing & Story was well thought. The horrid voice and the absence of that heroes feel was preventing me out of total immersion in those campaign.
I still somewhat enjoyed the DLC probably because of Crag Hack and Sandro and the expansion with Raelag and minotaur, manticore, dragon, eyes felt the same. They were also theme I like better pirate, dark necro & clan warlord fighting in shadow underground. That part with the dark naga too.
But this is just me I don't play campaign that much I enjoy more of the multiplayer aspect so that could also explain why
On the matter of this topic I think another way to see this is to propose classical faction (Academy, dungeon, necro, sylvan, stronghold & haven) without vote. Then they could introduce new faction by proposing a vote between for example sanctuary vs swamp ; new vs new.
To that one new win and you vote on different line up. Then you add another classical Ashan faction (fortress or inferno) you vote for the faction and the line up. This way an add-on add 2 faction.
If they have vote for the classical they should set the role and ask us to vote for the art. Ex: Large fast light beast. Choose between deer, unicorn, emerald knight mounting unicorn. So every slot you have 3 art choice you check each one when u submit you get the art off the whole faction submitted.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 09:33 AM |
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LRN said:
2) This is where I get blasphemous...but I found most HOMM3 campaigns rather lackluster. They had their high points, of course, but as a whole...Restoration of Erathia was average at best, with Catherine lacking personality as far as I was concerned-no Roland or Archibald she. Liked Deyjans getting over their heads. Armageddon's Blade campaigns were very hit and miss. The Shadow of Death? Oh, this was mostly good. But you know why Idiotbel is not my most hated character? It's Gem's fault. That. Utter. Idiot. Sandro almost telegraphs his intentions and still...Gelu's part was really dull as well. And what's worse, both were Ramparts fighting Necro forces again. And again. And again. And again. Crag Hack and Sandro, though? Oh, they were FUN.
I can accept most of that, and I agree that the RoE campaigns were a bit lacklustre, but for 3 scenarios apiece (excluding the last) what can you expect? AB was better IMO, I mean, not for the quality of the campaigns so much as the variety, they gave the sense of scale, of the fact that there was a whole continent and Catherine's struggle only took up a little bit of it.
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4)H5 vanilla was...rather average. Isabel was stupid, Findan was VERY, VERY annoying, but I was good with the remaining ones(admittedly, I prefrrred Ragael as Agrael here). But really, it was Tribes of the East that gave us two really good ones with Arantir and Gotai(despite the Orc speech), especially the first one(comparable to Gauldoth's). Zehir's flamboyant mediocrity had to raise its head again, though.
So...without the expansions, I consider H4 much better storywise (as H5 is burdened with Haven's and Sylvan's, not to mention that the Academy is not really an Academy one . Counting them, though,I slightly favour H5. Perhaps I'm being unfair doing that.
The problem I've always had here is that it's just everybody piling on the demons. I mean in RoE you at least had Tatalia and Krewlod acting entirely independently.
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LRN
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 11:00 AM |
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MattII] said:
The problem I've always had here is that it's just everybody piling on the demons. I mean in RoE you at least had Tatalia and Krewlod acting entirely independently.
Oh, I agree about that part. I wish their role had been expanded-the mercenary general forced to pick a side and act on it was a nice concept.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 02:51 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 14:55, 15 Nov 2014.
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Adrius said:
Yeah.. I find it kinda weird.
Votes on specific issues or balance have their place imo, stuff like line-ups I'd rather leave in the hands of the devs.. like.. I don't really trust the community to know what's good for the game cuz we don't effing know how everything is pieced together.
Like, have some vision devs . Then again I don't really trust Ubi when it comes to HoMM either but.. I want to be able to haha
Inb4 you can't complain game is bad cuz you choose it with your votes (nah jk)
something like that. thousands of players can't have a single cohesive vision.
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I like that they are putting such an emphasis on involving the community, unfortunately the majority of people are idiots and including them in the decision making process does not help achieve a quality finished product. Democracy is far from ideal, it's just the best of a bad bunch of options.
I wouldn't really call it democracy. having to vote for a bunch of propositions or creatures, among which you like some, and others are unacceptable isn't democracy. it's more of a trap. of course it's just a game, so ultimately it's up to the devs, and it's ok.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 15, 2014 03:33 PM |
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Fauch said:
I wouldn't really call it democracy. having to vote for a bunch of propositions or creatures, among which you like some, and others are unacceptable isn't democracy. it's more of a trap. of course it's just a game, so ultimately it's up to the devs, and it's ok.
In 'real life' democracy you also do not choose directly a person that you would like to be a president, for example. Each party gives out its candidate and from those few option you are supposed to pick one. You virtually don't have any influence on the list of canditates, yet you call it 'false democracy', although this is how it looks in real life.
Reffering to the second sentence - isn't it like thatin real life? You have candidate that you like, candidate that you accept and the ones that you despise. There is no chance to create such a set of choices from which you would like all. This is the first step to authoritarian regime. The very heart of democracy is abundance of opinions, where some are coopperating and some clash and the winner is the one that has the most supporters. What you imply is that democracy is what it should not ever become.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 15, 2014 03:48 PM |
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Minion said:
I'm a bit disappointed this thread wasn't a poll.
We think alike man 
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 15, 2014 03:59 PM |
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Fauch said:
something like that. thousands of players can't have a single cohesive vision.
And this is exactly why we don't vote for individual creatures to form a lineup, but vote for a lineup as a whole. The developer has a certain vision or concept in mind with each lineup, there are no mockups among them. Depending on which one is received best across the community is the one they're going to work out to something that works on the battlefield. Cohesion on the battlefield is certainly in their own interest to make each faction both unique as well as balanced towards the other factions.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 08:14 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 20:36, 15 Nov 2014.
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yeah, but when it comes to the whole game?
3 different line ups for each faction except haven?
that's like 3x3x3x3x3 different possible visions?
Pawek_13 said:
In 'real life' democracy you also do not choose directly a person that you would like to be a president, for example. Each party gives out its candidate and from those few option you are supposed to pick one. You virtually don't have any influence on the list of canditates, yet you call it 'false democracy', although this is how it looks in real life.
Reffering to the second sentence - isn't it like thatin real life? You have candidate that you like, candidate that you accept and the ones that you despise. There is no chance to create such a set of choices from which you would like all. This is the first step to authoritarian regime. The very heart of democracy is abundance of opinions, where some are coopperating and some clash and the winner is the one that has the most supporters. What you imply is that democracy is what it should not ever become.
no, what I was saying is that you don't just vote for a candidate, you vote for a program, a list of propositions, among which there will be some you like, and others you don't like. basically that's forcing you to vote for something you don't want. you don't want dark elves? too bad, you don't have the choice...
in that case, we have a vote, but not only the choices will not be representative of what the majority want, but it actually won't be representative of anyone's will, except the devs.
Adrius said:
Inb4 you can't complain game is bad cuz you choose it with your votes (nah jk)
I think adrius hits the nail on the head.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 15, 2014 08:16 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 23:32, 15 Nov 2014.
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emilsn91 said:
So far the team behind HoMM7 have been making a lot of votes about factions, line-ups, townscreens and what not.
But is it out of hand? Are they making too many votes and not enough decisions themselves?
I for one understand that involving the players in making the game will give us a sense of involvement, which is great. But would it not be a good idea if they just took some decisions themselves?
My opinion is that they should ease down on the votes ..
What do you think?
I think that voting is by itself a good idea. It heats up the community, and try to gather some majority's preference. It could be a win-win situation were fans get to express themselves and interact with developers therefore making the game benefits good publicity, ensuring more sales on release.
However, we have to keep in mind that the main reason made for the voting clearly is lack of budget before anything else : there are nine factions in Ashan universe and Ubi can only afford six of them for vanilla release. We then have to vote some things out instead of some things in.
So far, I think it is rather OK to make the community vote for what factions they want in-game, even good because it can generate good discussions between fans saying why they would prefer to see Fortress instead of Sylvan for instance.
On the other hand, getting to vote on the lineups is taking it a bit too far.
As I tried to point out here, it is an unnecessary complex task demanding the developers to come up with three factions instead of focusing on only one, each og them doomed to generate deception anyway. I will miss Manticore in Dungeon but would have missed Medusa if Shield had won. As simple as that. Far less drama generated from Haven missing Griffins than Sylvan missing Unicorns, why ? Because it's established fact and we have to deal with it. Seeing what we could have had instead of actual lineup is only good for creature flame wars and therefore creating more activity within community, ensuring marketing policy.
Townscreen votes were a good surprise though, having to choose between two reasonably good options, subtle enough to keep everyone quiet and peaceful as it should be.
Are we really taking that much part in the development ? The way I see things we only voted for factions to be in, the rest (lineups, TS..) is merely smoke and mirrors, as we yet didn't get to vote for anything else that is not budget-dependent issues. Would letting the community vote about game mechanics clever ? I don't know, and would tend to think it's not, but my bottom line is that I think if half of the budget spent on communication went to actual developers the game would benefit greatly from it.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 15, 2014 08:39 PM |
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Quote:
lack of budget
damn, and I thought they were the guys making assassin's creed
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 15, 2014 09:50 PM |
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Fauch said:
Quote:
lack of budget
damn, and I thought they were the guys making assassin's creed
Ubisoft may be generally quite rich but M&M section does not get that much money due to the fact that these games will not give such a big profit as, for instance, Assassin's Creed.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 16, 2014 01:13 AM |
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H4 vanilla campaigns are the best just for the huge textboxes alone. They were (well, are ) so immersing...
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted November 16, 2014 02:27 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
H4 vanilla campaigns are the best just for the huge textboxes alone. They were (well, are ) so immersing...
Although they were (are) indeed great, having text boxes makes it more like a book. Books are immersive, but they aren't that immersive, at least to me. I'd like it if the text was a bit more integrated into the actual game, you know?
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Darkem
Known Hero
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posted November 16, 2014 11:29 AM |
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Should I feel bad that I enjoyed H6's campaigns the most?
Back to the topic: I'm (so far) happy with all of the voting, maybe not with their results, but still. I think it is really important and make our community a little bit more vital. Did you notice that?
Second part of the town screen poll wasn't SO necessary, but I treat it as a big filler, something to make us occupied before developers post something big .
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted November 17, 2014 12:40 PM |
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I am really un-hyped about this game...
For the first time, the fanboy inside of me is wishing that a new Heroes game is not made. I really do not see what will make this any better than H6, especially when to me, the largest flaw of H6 was the small amount of factions. And now they are making us vote away factions and creatures...
Why can't we just rank the 9 potential factions and a set number of the more popular factions make it into the game? I want the dwarves back god damn it! If there is some kind of hint that a profitable launch has a good chance of being followed by a faction expansion then I might be willing to reconsider my feelings(wallet) on this game...
At least Academy, Sylvan and hydras will be back... black dragons make me puke...
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted November 19, 2014 11:26 AM |
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As to be expected, I think we shoudl vote on as much as possible, especially on medium scale. I am not for voting on the large scale, i.e. game mechanic basics and such. While I like it, it would probably drive people off and may get to weird mechanics. I also do not want detailed votes like "How many hitpoints should the Skeleton have" and such.
I, though would have liked a different kind of voting. For example for factions, why don't they give us ALL factions and we can, let's say choose 4 from that and the devs can choose 2 from those unvoted (f they want 6, of course). On lineups, I think their approach ok, but embetterable. There again, they could have only elt people vote for basic lineups, but of all facs, and then spice them out to BALANCE and INDIVIDUALIZE the factions! Still I personally would like to be involved in all factions, not like now having like 4 dev-factions and 2 player-factions.^^ The one thing I'm impartial about is the ambiance vote. While it feels kind of good, I think it a bit unnecessary and would rather co-decide gameplay things than ambience. In that, I think I trust the artists and graphics people they hire.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 19, 2014 12:27 PM |
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LRN said:
And the intro remains my favourite(oh dear, all those terrible, accidents...)
Terrible accents? 
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