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| Thread: Why is "The Wizard of Oz" so important in the USA? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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emilsn91
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posted February 05, 2015 09:50 PM |
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Why is "The Wizard of Oz" so important in the USA?
I watch a lot of television; Both film and series, and there is always a reference or a whole episode dedicated to this film from 1939, but to be honest no one else have the same relationship to this old story.
I live in Denmark, and we never read it or watch the movie. We actually never hear about it. I only know about because the modern society is so influenced by the culture from USA.
So why is this movie (childrens book) so important? It is not a very in my eyes great story..
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The_Polyglot
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posted February 05, 2015 10:06 PM |
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Maybe cause Judy Garland is sexy?
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friendofgunnar
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posted February 06, 2015 08:09 AM |
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That's funny, I watched it a few months back and remember thinking "This doesn't really have a plot."
One of the reasons I think it's iconic is because it was played once a year for several decades on network television. For that reason alone everybody over the age of thirty has seen it at least a coupla times.
Also, a lot of the songs are catchy, especially compared to the crap musicals that have come out in the past several years three decades.
But yeah, it is kinda boring 
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markkur
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Once upon a time
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posted February 06, 2015 02:50 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 12:42, 07 Feb 2015.
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emilsn91 said:
So why is this movie (childrens book) so important? It is not a very in my eyes great story..
I think there are a number of reasons but would also guess that it's not near as big as it once was.
When it was released in 1939 (I think that's correct) the splitting of Sepia and Color was astounding and at a time when B/W still dominated. Also, the fact that it was a high-budget Fantasy made for all ages was something new too. There were previous Fantasy flicks (even silent) but they did not compare.
And Gunnar is spot on...catchy tunes. "Somewhere over the Rainbow" was a smash hit and is still loved by the older generations and not them only. There is also the fact that WWII soon erupted and the song became an anthem of sorts.
And as Gunnar said and I'll add to; back in the old days of TV broadcast it was ran every year. Rerun-Movies like TWoO, How the Grinch Stole Christmas, A Christmas Carol and It's a Wonderful Life were seen during the Holidays every year.
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artu
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posted February 06, 2015 03:27 PM |
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Edited by artu at 17:15, 06 Feb 2015.
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I always thought the idea was "overwhelmingly influenced" by Alice in Wonderland. But thinking about it, Alice is published in 1865 and the Wizard of Oz in 1900 (the book of course, the film is 1939), so I guess Alice was canon by then and it as a more modern approach on "girl goes to fantasyland and in the end, it turns out to be a dream, or does it?"
The b/w - color duality must have been indeed a very catchy idea back in the time and the film has charisma in its own way but I dont think it's one of those movies that doesnt lose anything from its impact despite the decades, you wont be much impressed unless maybe, you watch it as a very little kid.
Btw, on Youtube check Somewhere Over The Rainbow from Ray Charles, best version ever (apart from instrumantal jazz improvisations which I consider another category, the song is a standard now) and while at it, there's also some cheap, B-movie Turkish version of the film on Youtube, from the 1970's which is hilarious to even look at.
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Sleeping_Sun
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posted February 06, 2015 04:33 PM |
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Well, just read the cultural impact section of both the book and film on wikipedia. Here and here. I think you'll get the gist.
Also, since we are living in the time often called postmodern (or whatever you want to define it) it is common to make allusions and references to the significant works of art (movie, book, music, etc.) in one's artistic work. You can use those references as building blocks on which you will build your own work, or mock those works that you are referencing (check Into the Woods film - mocking fairy tales  ), or you can use that for something else...
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friendofgunnar
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posted February 07, 2015 04:56 AM |
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Frank Baum actually wrote a whole series of novels set in the Oz universe. They're mostly forgetable but I remember one thing about them that was interesting was that Baum was obsessed with sex changes. Several times he had characters magically switching genders, or even an entire army switching gender if I remember right. Kinda amusing 
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emilsn91
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posted February 07, 2015 10:19 AM |
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All of your points are great actually. And I do indeed agree with the postmodern take on it.
We are indeed making references to everything these days, but most of the times I feel like it is overused and not relevant anymore.
The reason why I made this topic is because I was watching Scrubs and they did a Wizard of Oz episode, which everyone on IMDB loved, but I was like Meeeeh, seen it before a ton of times.. So I didn't feel that magic about the episode.. To me they could have made all their points without the reference
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artu
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posted February 07, 2015 11:15 AM |
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Well, sometimes it's not about making an extra point but simply to pay tribute or if you wanna take a more cynical approach, milking the reference and guarenteeing the interest of the audience who loves the classic.
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Sleeping_Sun
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posted February 07, 2015 11:37 AM |
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Yes, postmodernism is overused and nowadays boring. Although I was mesmerised by it when I began my studies, I was eventually bored by it, because out of 5 years at the university I've been studying it for 4 years on several different courses.  (Enough is enough) I just had too much of that mumbo-jumbo. Heck, even when I started writing my first novels/poems they were heavily tainted by the postmodern notions.
It's just too bad that people (cause of the POMO) believe that there is nothing new or original anymore, so they just go for referencing and combining things to create new and 'original'. So, yeah, they could have made that episode differently, but it all comes down to the differences in cultures. I had many problems watching many tv series when they made a remark about something and everyone starts to laugh, but I don't get it. But then again there is the personal taste of what you like, want and expect of the tv show's episode.
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markkur
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posted February 07, 2015 12:39 PM |
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Edited by markkur at 12:45, 07 Feb 2015.
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artu said:
I always thought the idea was "overwhelmingly influenced" by Alice in Wonderland. ...and in the end, it turns out to be a dream, or does it?"
The "Dream" Fairy Story is a common vehicle and since Books were the deal back-then, no doubt Alice was a huge inspiration to Baum.
artu said:
... you wont be much impressed unless maybe, you watch it as a very little kid.
There is a newer animated-version (a sort of sequel)that could have been very good but instead, it's not bad but it's not very good either. artu said:
Somewhere Over The Rainbow from Ray Charles
Yeah that's a classic now but Dorothy still rulz baby 
artu said:
there's also some cheap, B-movie Turkish version of the film on Youtube, from the 1970's which is hilarious to even look at.
1st time I've regretted not learning Turkish, hearing the actors would be most of the fun.
How about The Wizard Of Oz 1925
https://archive.org/details/TheWizardOfOz1925
and here's an ancient "Alice" Cecil Hepworth's 1903 adaptation of Alice in Wonderland https://archive.org/details/AliceInWonderland_343
***watch at your own peril***
emilsn91 said:
The reason why I made this topic is because I was watching Scrubs and they did a Wizard of Oz episode, which everyone on IMDB loved, but I was like Meeeeh, seen it before a ton of times...
That's the same reason, I don't watch much of anything "new" I gave up long ago and went back to Books. The kids now a days are being fed buckets of that stuff and ofc have no inkling. Btw, isn't that practice exactly like "name-dropping"? You know, a sort of expected boost...gaining credibility by association.
FriendOfGunnar said:
Frank Baum actually wrote a whole series of novels set in the Oz universe.
Some of those are at Gutenburg but when I read those titles they sound as catchy as "Santa Claus versus the Martians" and I move right along. I know I shouldn't judge a book by the cover but If someone can't make a decent title, I doubt they can write 60000 words that are going to hold my attention.
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emilsn91
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posted February 07, 2015 01:52 PM |
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Quote:
It's just too bad that people (cause of the POMO) believe that there is nothing new or original anymore, so they just go for referencing and combining things to create new and 'original'. So, yeah, they could have made that episode differently, but it all comes down to the differences in cultures. I had many problems watching many tv series when they made a remark about something and everyone starts to laugh, but I don't get it. But then again there is the personal taste of what you like, want and expect of the tv show's episode.
My questions is to you; is there any new original content now a days?
Quote:
That's the same reason, I don't watch much of anything "new" I gave up long ago and went back to Books. The kids now a days are being fed buckets of that stuff and ofc have no inkling. Btw, isn't that practice exactly like "name-dropping"? You know, a sort of expected boost...gaining credibility by association.
It is indeed like name dropping.. And it does give a boost. There are times, I smile a little when I in a TV-series here a contemporary joke, reference, person etc. but as it is being argued is it needed to keep the audience watching?
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artu
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posted February 07, 2015 02:12 PM |
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Well, I havent seen the Scrubs episode but giving a reference to a classic isnt always post-modern intertextuality. That is more like, for example, the Coen Brothers retelling the Odysseia in Oh Brother, Where are Thou. It's reworking a structure with your unique perspective and interpretation. I think just like almost anything in art, an idea that seems so easy to implement when a master executes, becomes boring and unoriginal if a mediocre artist screws it up. In the movie thread, just the other day, I was complaining about a similar thing about "hey, this is deliberately a B-movie" hype. Enough already, just because Tarantino made masterpieces out of that idea, doesnt mean all of you who gets a cheap script, a few worn out actors and a handy cam will have the same results, it's not that simple, you are not him.
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fred79
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posted February 07, 2015 03:01 PM |
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it's a good movie, but i wouldn't say it was important. others might disagree. i think books are a good deal more important. movies are for lazy people who don't take the time to read, or have the imagination for constructing what they're reading.
but seriously though. movies are like the cliff's notes for books. movie makers don't always get it right, but sometimes their interpretations are better than the books. i like both platforms, myself. i prefer to see a movie before i read its book, though. the other way around, there are always more complaints.
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Sleeping_Sun
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posted February 07, 2015 03:42 PM |
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Quote:
My questions is to you; is there any new original content now a days?
Nowadays no, it is much easier to be conformist and do what everyone else is doing. It simply became the mainstream. I haven't been looking for other people's original content, so I cannot provide you with an appropriate argument or even an example. However, I am not sure if there are people like me somewhere out there in world who want fresh, different and original content - or who are interesting in creating such content. I stopped writing 1 epic poem and 1 detective/paranormal story because they were postmodern works. I did that because I want to separate myself from that. I really value originality above all else.
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emilsn91
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posted February 08, 2015 08:44 PM |
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artu are you refering to our discussion about John Wick?
Fred79 call me lazy then. I love movies, and I see books as a workout. 1 chapter pr. day and then rest..
Sleepingsun - You seem to be an academic of some sort? and therefor I want to ask if you believe that originality will return?
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artu
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posted February 08, 2015 08:50 PM |
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No. Machete was the movie that got me talking.
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Sleeping_Sun
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posted February 08, 2015 10:18 PM |
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@emilsn91
Well, I'm still a student of English literature so, I guess I am an academic , whether a good one or bad one that is yet to be seen. xD I am interested in literary thought, genres, criticism... Though I am not yet active at contributing on academic level because of my passion to create art - literary and non literary, such as music, drawing, etc. I have unusual urges to create... monstrous urges.  /digression ends
As for your question, I have to be honest and say that I do not know. After one period of thought, art, politics and economics is exhausted and it starts to break down, there has to come a different, or maybe few different (not necessary new) periods/systems that has to replace the previous one. I hope that one day it will return, because when we are fed with one and the same thing we want something new and different. I hope that after this postmodern intertexual period there comes a period where new and original ideas get to flourish. But then again, the originality and new might depend on our expectations and desires. Maybe nowadays it comes in smaller bits than one wants (I must say I do not want small but something big here). For example, recently I discovered a term the global novel. Maybe we could count it as something new and original. I do not know. I still need to do a research about this when I get some time. Hopefully, I answered your question without boring you to death... since I know to do that to people and since my reply was a bit more literary and not general as I wanted. 
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artu
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posted February 09, 2015 02:28 AM |
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I once read a novelist wrote that in the late 19th and early 20th century, literature became too idelogical and all the social realism and leftism turned it into a political tool rather than an art form searching for beauty. So as a reaction, just lke a pendulum shifting from one side to the other, this time post-modern writers threw life out completely and it became about literary games and twists of intertextuality etc. (The Perec novel in which he didn't use the letter E comes to mind but he said that was a political metaphor.)
The novelist concluded that this was a shift that was doomed to bore the average reader, so they moved away to detective novels and similar stuff, in return. So now, the mainstream literature, the literature of Tolstoy, Balzac, Dickens that handled real life issues was coming back.
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emilsn91
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posted February 09, 2015 05:55 PM |
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Okay. The discussion took a new level.
Well.. I believe that every reaction has a counterreaction, and I do believe that at some point (do not know when) the original litterature and screenplays will occur.
IMO Christopher Nolan is very original in his work. ANd if not then it is just becaus I do not know the works he is stealing from.
And well Tarentino is original as well..
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