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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Optimal play is tedious
Thread: Optimal play is tedious
Pembleton
Pembleton


Hired Hero
posted April 04, 2002 09:30 PM

Optimal play is tedious

I read in a post elsewhere how some micromanagement was reduced when structures such as windmills automatically transfer their resources and you don't have to visit them every week. However, another, far more tedious aspect of the game has been introduced if you want play "optimally".  It already starts early, even on the first turn.  I wonder how much this will affect mutiplayer when the first few turns can take a very long time.

This characteristic was introduced with the ability to split armies, and the ability to control them independently of heroes.  What you can do now is send one grunt unit to collect resources or artifacts, or scout, but of course they can't flag mines.  If they collect an artifact you then have to calculate the optimal way to send it back to the hero.

Also, because movement of units differ, sometimes you may want to split off a slow unit from a stack to allow the faster units to reach a destination that they otherwise can't.  I think you can see from this that you can derive various other situations arousing from the new ability.  You can have mutiple stacks early on going this way and that.  If you just stuck to your army without splitting them up, you would be much less efficient.

I think the new strategic element introduced by splitting armies is quite complex and interesting, but I wonder if it's worth all the micromanagement and trouble.  This wasn't so bad in my first few scenarios, which was just to explore the new features and you only started with one hero and then one you can hire.  But I really started to notice the tedium on the first campaign scenario where you begin with 3 towns and 3 heroes.
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promenad
promenad


Hired Hero
posted April 05, 2002 12:27 AM

Ach, since you still can have a maximum of 8 different 'armies' active at the same time it can't be abused too much... Anyways, it should only be an issue the first week or so, in which turns are very quick to begin with so it doesn't matter that much. Then again, I've never played a heroes multiplayer game other than some hotseat back in HMMII.
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2002 09:49 AM

compared to H3 its nothin

Day one in H3 would means buying 6-7 hero and trying to get at least 2-3 battles and also scouts with magic bolt sent on best paths- much mroe micro than H4 so far. Though I'd adore a button that lets you split a stack more effecenitly than how it works now. I play on highest resolution and trying to click on split button, click on unit you want split off, and then click the # of unit you want splitted off, then also click and dragging that unit out of army and into little circle which it most fit into just perfectly to stay split or you start over... now that is rather tedious even once you get used to seeing how it needs to fit within the circle.  I do that about 5-6 times on day one and lots after as I scout.

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promenad
promenad


Hired Hero
posted April 05, 2002 09:54 AM

Just hold 'shift' while transfering your troops. Remves most of the tedium.
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2002 10:06 AM

ugh

H4 supposed to be my slow easy relax game... if I start messin with keyboard I get into RTS frame of mind. I just want a double click solution! I read the shift shortcut in manual actually, but other reason I play with lights off so screen is more engorssing and finding the shift key is annoying at times.

Shift still doesn't remove problem of tryin to fit splitted units into the little circles on high resolutions.
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 05, 2002 11:18 AM

OK, Ichon, now your whining. If you have some Freudian aversion towards the Shift-button, I don't think you should complain about the micromanagement of splitting troops. Or is it that you can't find it (the shift button, that is)in the dark?

Here's what I say: Use the Shift button and be happy, or choose not to use it and be unhappy (but don't whine about it!)

Play well
DonGio
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2002 11:27 AM

lol

Actually I'm being a little facetious. Watching all the ocmplains the first few days after H4 came out. My biggest whine is with the little circles actually. The spliting itself is somewhat tedius even with shift, but there is no way to solve the fact that you have to repeat whatever method it is quite a few times thru the game.

Just those little circles... only reason I could think of they designed it to be so precise was for people trying to line up their armies exactly or sumthing. Otherwise it should grab the icon whenever you release it over any army slot.

Course this just shows how far you have to nitpick till you find things wrong with this game. Well, outside of dang potion of immortality and 0 cost retreats.

It's like a free t-portal right now almost. Your hero gains a few levels... seperate him from army, hit mobs group- retreat appear outside your town, get spells and meet your army coming back, trip only a couple days that way.
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 05, 2002 11:36 AM

Huh? I didn't get that free retreat thingy. Please elaborate...

And by the way, don't you love it that the AI surrenders to you too now? I just love it when they say "The enemy wants to surrender. Will you let them flee to *insert town name* for *insert sum of money*?"

I almost always do... then I get money just for waiting a few more turns to beat the crap out of the AI...
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2002 11:47 AM
Edited By: Ichon on 5 Apr 2002

huh

You never had AI surrender in H3 or even quite often in H2? I did then... haven't had it happen yet in H4. Without diplo surrender costs are insane however.

The retreat thing... right now you can retreat your hero for 0 penalty outside of leavin your army behind. Well, just seperate hero and 1-3 L1 units from army, attack monster group and you are transported back to your town same day, you can go in learn spells, defend from a siege- cut half the map in travel off if you reached one end of map and want your main to go other direction... etc. Your army can walk back by itself or if strong enough continue fighting till you get a new hero with it, or usually I have about 3 hero in my army, let two go and retreat to defend siege is really useful on the crowded maps with lot of AI crawling around too.  

It'll be useful in multi also cause with no chaining you always have units in your towns, at least I do- to defend with.  Anyone know if there is still week of plague? I haven't noticed it yet.. would be terrible if there were so I doubt it.
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 05, 2002 11:53 AM

There are no weeks anymore, only months. I haven't had month of the plague yet, either, though.

Feeling kind of dizzy on the surrender issue... now that you mention it, I think you're right. But how come I felt this great surge of satisfaction and surprise when the AI first offered to surrender in HOMMIV? I think I need to go outside, get some fresh air or something...

Thanks for clearing that retreat question up. I thought you meant that there was a way to retreat for free and keeping your army...

Play well
DonGio
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted April 05, 2002 11:57 AM

there are still weeks

It still records the weeks in the lower right corner when you play. Not sure of affect on game mechanics, like I know if you buy a new dwelling on day 7, you don't get new creatures the next day unless it's very low level just cause of new week.
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted April 05, 2002 12:04 PM

I know there are still weeks. I meant, there are no more "week of the...".

Play OK
DonGio
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sachmo71
sachmo71

Tavern Dweller
posted April 06, 2002 12:18 AM

Quote:
I know there are still weeks. I meant, there are no more "week of the...".




Play OK
DonGio



Ummm...yes there are.
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Conn
Conn


Responsible
Famous Hero
God slayer
posted April 06, 2002 01:02 AM

Ummmm...No, they're not. They are now "Month of the...." it seems that the week doesn't have any effect on game mechanics anymore..or is the creature growth counted in weeks, not in months? not sure about that...One more thing: i haven't notice any "month of the (insert any non-game creature)" it seems now there are only mohs of the creatures actually recruitable.
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sachmo71
sachmo71

Tavern Dweller
posted April 06, 2002 01:43 AM

ahhh

You are probably right...my bad. The MANUAL says that it can be any type of creature...but I will have to go back and check the exact wording of it.
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