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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Battle sites on adventure map
Thread: Battle sites on adventure map
natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted May 27, 2015 04:43 PM

Battle sites on adventure map

Please, someone who was at the event to spoil something about that. I cant believe this will be the second game without any!!
We want fixed sites like in h5
Treant thicket
Blood temple
Dwarven treasury
Crypt
Dragon Utopia
Elemental stockpile

And h3
Medusa bank
Cyclops cave
Dwarven treasury
Imp cache
Griffin conservatory
Fly hive
Dragon utopia
Crypt

I am writing from my phone so maybe there were more. Those sites are signature for each game and strategies are based on them. Look for h4 conservatory and fly hive.

The devs must give us battle sites this time !!

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted May 27, 2015 05:10 PM

If they are going to follow H6 footsteps (and it seems like they do), I think we are going to have battle sites where you can specify guards and reward.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted May 27, 2015 05:33 PM

All in all leave THEIR work to the mapmaker. Thanks but no thanks!
Been there done that. That was the hardest part of the map to make...
Leave the option for custom sites but there should be default sites like in h3-5

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
posted May 27, 2015 05:50 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 17:50, 27 May 2015.

So we are just going to get just another type of pandora boxes instead of creature banks? Lame. Pandora Box=/=Creature Bank. And a heroes game should have both of them

btw: Where there pandora boxes in h6?

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kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted May 27, 2015 05:53 PM

No
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
posted May 27, 2015 06:07 PM
Edited by Dies_Irae at 18:14, 27 May 2015.

H6 isn't exactly short on battle sites either. Taking SoD into account, these can be found in maps:

Ruins
Pyramid
Graveyard
Barbarian Camp
Shipwreck
Dragon Utopia
Hellgate

For reputation points and Might-boost (either Power or Defense) there is the Arena.

The big difference between H3's battle sites is that in H6, the reward may vary. One time it is a bunch of resources, but in another map they can provide artefacts or creatures. H3's ones at least provided fixed rewards, either resources (Naga Bank) or creatures (Griffin Conservatory). Also, the amount of guards determines the nature of the reward. The crypt in H3 is a good example of that. If the guards include a vampire, the bonus is gold and an artefact. The amount of angels obtained from a Conservatory varies between 1-3 depening on how many Griffin guards there are.

I never used H6's map editor, so I don't know to what extent you can change the reward there, but in-game it doesn't grow. The armies guarding these sites, however, can grow, as is made clear in campaigns. Arenas seldom have less than zounds of creatures if you're unlucky.

____________

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted May 27, 2015 07:32 PM

Dies_Irae said:
H6 isn't exactly short on battle sites either. Taking SoD into account, these can be found in maps:




It seems the devs have managed to trick a lot of people that there were battle sites.

Let me clarify why those aren`t battle sites.

Firstly all battle sites including arena and excluding dragon topes have armies which are totaly random each time you load the game BUT consist only of one week army growth of each faction.
They grow each week but it is not a problem to take them even week 1 and get that juicy relic artifact which is known beforehand. You can sacrifiice creatures if needed. I think specialized armies like in h5 are harder to defeat than one week growh army(see blood temple and elemental stockpile).
This leads me to say that rewards are totaly random by default so one player gets 5 wood while the other gets +20 init artifact.

We need real battle sites like heroes 5 but devs have to know that heroes 6 DIDN`t HAVE BATTLE SITES DAMN IT!

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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
posted May 27, 2015 08:47 PM
Edited by Dies_Irae at 20:59, 27 May 2015.

natalka said:
We need real battle sites like heroes 5 but devs have to know that heroes 6 DIDN`t HAVE BATTLE SITES DAMN IT!


No need to start swearing. You have a point, but if I may state the following: the whole concept of a 'battle site' as you call it, is to obtain a reward by defeating a number of guarding creatures. At least, that is how I perceive it. There is a structure, there are guards, you defeat them, gain experience from it and some resources or maybe even an artefact.

H6's sites remained empty after being looted. The number of guards grows, and at the start of a map (especially a custom one) it is indeed possible to loot them rather quickly. H5's battle sites have fixed guards (the Blood Temple has 40 to 120 Blood Furies, 5 to 20 Shadow Witches and up to 10 Matriarchs). Yet the reward seems to increase with the amount of guards, the same as in H3. I suppose that this can be a though fight early on if you're unfortunate enough to encounter a large army.

After a loot the amount of guards and subsequent reward is randomly chosen, so after one fight the building may become less, or even better defended.

Battle sites are a welcome feature on the adventure map, and I agree that the reward given should increase with the amount of guards. But how strong should the starting army be? Fixed, like in H3/H5, with no possibilty of growth? Or should it be fixed on a certain number and then grow each week? Should Easy/Medium/Hard influence the strength of the guards?

There are several things to take into account. Yet I must admit that H6's buildings take the challenge away a bit because you know the army and the reward before even engaging in combat. Disguising this would certainly be a good idea.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted May 27, 2015 10:34 PM

Dies_Irae said:
H6's sites remained empty after being looted.


I remember them respawning every month though ... or perhaps that was just a few of them?

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted May 28, 2015 08:57 PM

Heroes 6 battle sites are a joke - easily defeated and have no memorable creature combinations.
In h3 battle sites are challenging on rmg maps and in custom maps except for epic maps where armies are bigger. Same goes for heroes 5. You would never attack Treant thicket week 1 etc.

We need challenging sites that have mixed creatures combining their abilities.

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Syth
Syth


Hired Hero
posted August 05, 2015 02:05 PM
Edited by Syth at 14:17, 05 Aug 2015.

I liked the battlesites in Heroes 3 because when you entered them you immidiately knew that you were in disadvantage and thats no regular battle;

-First and foremost is you start usually surrounded by the enemy which is great;it's something different than line to line battle and you need far more tactics to cover your shooters from the raging Nagas for example.

-Second the randomisation factor where you couldn't see how much creatures(for example nagas) were in there is a great thrill.

-I liked the combined mage/golem kind of battlesites as well.It gave some thrill to have some combination of army to fight with.

-I liked the fact that these places replenished after some time.That being said these replenishment should have been based on the time of the year like the week number so it doesn't become so weak at late stages and still has some challenge

-I also hope we can make our own "random monster" combinations in the mapeditor and SAVE them for further use.This effectively means that these combinations "GROW" with time as normal neutral monsters do.These "custom baked" combinations should be also added to the neutral monster pool so that they actually show up in a random map.So if you place a "random lvl3" monster it should have a chance that your combination shows up as the neutral on a map.
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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 05, 2015 05:37 PM

I remember, some time back, that I had the same feeling about H6 and the lack of treasuries, but then I looked them up, and found that there are at least few of them: For necro, Inferno, Stronghold, Sea and Dragons, (and I might have missed one or two). The problem was, that A: they had no consistency in loot, B: they were totally forgettable.

So my point is.
1: Make the locations more memorable. With set creatures and unique battle sites.
2: Give each treasury a purpouse. Let Bandits/orcs give gold. Inferno or academy give resources. Necropolis for artifacts, Tombs for seplls etc. Let us plan, if it is good for us to go ther, to take the risk.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME!

3: Don't show us our reward, and better, not even the guardians.

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 05, 2015 07:07 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 19:13, 05 Aug 2015.

H3 introduced a wealthy amount of battle sides, with varied rewards (gold, resources, artifacts, creatures, even level 5 spells). In some of them your army would be surrounded by the different stacks of creatures instead of the typical left vs right set up.
H4 followed suit, with the addition of learnable spell scrolls as rewards (sadly creature banks never returned )
H5 improved them by offering different set up of creatures (instead of merely increasing the number of them), same with rewards. Respawning was added as well, which is a nice touch.

Honestly, it's infuriating why Ubi keeps making steps back instead of improving what is already a good system
Dave_Jame said:
3: Don't show us our reward, and better, not even the guardians.

Wait wait wait, in H6 they showed the reward before fighting the guards?
____________

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 05, 2015 07:16 PM

Yes. You could see the enemy along with the reward.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 05, 2015 07:19 PM

That's so dumb I don't even know what to say
____________

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 05, 2015 07:24 PM

I agree. I also hated that they introduced "reatreat" dialog before combat, where you could se exact number of enemies, and you can just retreat before the combat.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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Dave_Jame
Dave_Jame


Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
posted August 05, 2015 07:35 PM

Storm-Giant said:
H3 introduced a wealthy amount of battle sides, with varied rewards (gold, resources, artifacts, creatures, even level 5 spells). In some of them your army would be surrounded by the different stacks of creatures instead of the typical left vs right set up.

H1 had Gold and Artifacts, and even "mines"
H2 introduced guarded external dwellings and high level Spells (Pyramide)
H3 introduced (or so I think) resourcess and Units.
H4 IDK to be honest
H5 introduced Reappearing units (if I'm not wrong)
H6 just reduced all of this to "Random not unit stack of things on the map". And I think, that except the Utopia, non of these cashes had reappearing units.

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icefield
icefield


Adventuring Hero
posted August 06, 2015 09:59 PM

Battle sites are prime candidates for added content in expansions, so they might want not to overuse them in the first release?

If there is at least one type of battle site in the game, the modding capabilities they announce should make everything possible.  For a good result, it would require new artwork in the modding, but changing creatures, reward etc. should be trivial.

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