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| Thread: Tips for picking up second languages | |
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blizzardboy
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posted July 10, 2015 06:00 PM |
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Tips for picking up second languages
I grew up east coast US, in a part of the country where basically 99% are white people that speak English. Travel 12 hours in any direction and everybody still speaks English. English is also the king language of the world so I've never had any need in my life or hardly any exposure/incentive to learn other languages.
But, I'm a bit irritated now in my life that I don't speak Spanish. There are songs here in Spanish. There are some people that conversationally speak Spanish. There are even cute girls that smile at me that speak Spanish and I'm like 'noooooooo!!' In short: I have that feel that I'm being left out. I want more on my life portfolio.
What are some good ways to pick up on other languages? I mean, I suppose I could just buy Rosetta Stone and sit in front of my computer for hours and hours, but I have a life and limited time.
I was an idiot when it came to foreign language in school/college. I took Spanish in High School but French in college, and since I've never actually had to use them, they've both decayed. I should have just stuck with Spanish the whole way through and been more enthusiastic about it, but it just seemed like a "waste of time / onerous" subject at the time that had little to no meaning in my life.
Being around the language doesn't seem to make me learn the language at all, even though people have said it does (except maybe on a subconscious level once I actually started learning it?). I feel like in order to do that, I would still need to have a strong footing in the basics of the language. Since it's spoken quickly in a conversational setting and removed from any visual queues or instruction, it's all just arcane to me. I can pick up the pronouns and an occasional word, but for the most part I don't have a clue. Oral is so much harder than written.
Is it momentum-based? In other words: it starts off slow, but once you have a basic fluency you're able to pick up and gain mastery a lot quicker from there?
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted July 10, 2015 06:30 PM |
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Idk I learned to speak English (in the sense that I could convey my thoughts, although not perfectly/efficiently) in like 3 months without knowing anything before hand (I knew how to say yes and no), when there's a need you will automatically learn. So my advice would be to place yourself in an environment where the particular language you want to learn is spoken almost exclusively and you will start to pick it up, idk how else to explain it. Doesn't sound very empirical when put like this, but this is how it worked for me, and a Bulgarian student that I helped tutor.
Also remember that learning a new language isn't merely learning words and pronounciations, it structures the way you think and express yourself.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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PandaTar
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posted July 10, 2015 06:42 PM |
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Edited by PandaTar at 18:43, 10 Jul 2015.
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I think it's somehow like that.
I started learning English around, hm ... 12? Learning, I mean, really started paying attention to it. I always had English classes and always went perfectly well with it, but learning the language as it is and mastering it, is when you can write, listen and think in that language, instead of translating all over. Started learning by playing games mostly. I had then had classes to get grammar and whole thing.
So you may try and focus on the way you learned your language, or the way kids do, by listening, by showing, giving meaning to things as if it is the first time, never by translating to English.
So, you'll pick a 'ball', and one will tell it the name in Spanish. Right now I'm not sure how it is called. In Portuguese, it is called Bola. In Spanish it is Balón, Bola, Pelota, anything in these lines. But then that thing is NOT ball = bola, that thing is bola.
After a while, your mind start giving meaning to concepts as if they are synonym, or so I think it works - as I'm not a language expert, however I do like learning new languages. So you have Computer. Synonym for computer: Computador. And so it goes, it'll start coming naturally; you won't be translating, you'll just know two different ways of giving meaning to things, as we already know in many examples in our own language.
I understand almost 100% of any written thing in Spanish, although I never had any Spanish classes and I also DON'T like Spanish (the sound of it, I find if annoying and ugly). But I have some problem when listening to Spanish, so I may get 70% of what's being said to me. Italian is also along those lines, but I may get only 50% of spoken language. I can neither speak those two languages properly, because I don't know their grammar and many words get confused due some closeness in their writing.
Same for English. I learned much of English by reading first, not by listening, so I may understand almost anything in written English and I know many words I don't know how to pronounce them too, but when it comes to listen to English, specially due some accent changes, I may understand around 70% of it.
But all that thanks to 'not' translating anything, or you'll just listen to the first words and nothing will make sense later.
I'm learning Japanese by myself. I find it rather easier than I thought and challenging all the same. Quite fun. But given that I don't have anyone else to share this learning or to practice, it may take a while until it becomes as natural as the other languages.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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OhforfSake
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Initiate
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posted July 10, 2015 06:58 PM |
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I don't really think there are any other languages than English?
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blizzardboy
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posted July 10, 2015 07:02 PM |
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@Tsar:
Hmm, would you mine going into more detail about your experience being dropped into England and being forced to learn the language? Like, were you just constantly asking people to explain themselves?
I know there are plenty of immigrants (legal or not-so-legal) that can literally live here for 20-30 years and yet still not speak functional English, and then you have opposite scenarios like yourself where you're speaking like a boss in under a year. The difference seems so incredibly drastic.
In my case, I don't "need" to speak other languages. I just occasionally encounter them and feel slightly annoyed that I can't eavesdrop. Knowledge is power, and I want more power.
edit: I liked the advice on not trying to "translate" things, since now that I think of it, that is how I approach it, which is probably a very poor way of doing it. I'm being systematic. Instead, express yourself in two different manners.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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PandaTar
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posted July 10, 2015 07:17 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
edit: I liked the advice on not trying to "translate" things, since now that I think of it, that is how I approach it, which is probably a very poor way of doing it. I'm being systematic. Instead, express yourself in two different manners.
A 'proof' that this is how our brain ends up learning things in when you forget your own language word for something, although you still remember it in another language. You know what it is, one way or the other, and as in words in our own language, those we just remember synonyms, it also happens amidst learned languages as if they simply completed themselves.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted July 11, 2015 05:02 AM |
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Quote:
I know there are plenty of immigrants (legal or not-so-legal) that can literally live here for 20-30 years and yet still not speak functional English, and then you have opposite scenarios like yourself where you're speaking like a boss in under a year. The difference seems so incredibly drastic.
Language is tied in to the way you think and how you express yourself, most immigrants will learn the words, but they'll never learn to speak properly without first absorbing the culture of the language. It's why it's so hard for me to speak Hungarian now, i can understand what people say perfectly and it all seems familiar, but I can't even formulate a proper sentence on my own (does not compute).
Quote:
Hmm, would you mine going into more detail about your experience being dropped into England and being forced to learn the language? Like, were you just constantly asking people to explain themselves?
If I recall correcly progress was acually pretty slow, I was lucky enough to be young thus forced to go to school (consistent learning environment where I could pick up the language). The other kids would group around me like some exotic animal, lol one asked me if I had a penis, since pina in Hungarian is vagina I assumed it meant that so i said no, wasn't till much later till I discovered my mistake  .
I can't really explain it, bit by bit, word by word I learned. It was a totally different experience to what I had in English class in Hungary, after like 3 years it turns out I knew ****all about talking/writing English. In 3 months I absorbed more than I did in that 3 years, the only things that stuck with me from then were the very basics, like yes/no, and "my name is" etc.
And yeah often times I had to ask people to explain/repeat themselves, mostly due to the abnormal speed with which people spoke, on my god took me even longer to get used to the ****ing sarcasm.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
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posted July 11, 2015 05:15 AM |
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Edited by artu at 05:16, 11 Jul 2015.
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Like some people are better with numbers or faces, some are better with language and some will learn a new one both faster and easier. That being said, I think the key is not to try to memorize words all the time but rather try to grasp the context and not to think in your own language, translate in your head, then speak out but to directly think in that language. (For example, I almost never did any English homework in high school with the vocabulary lists etc but paid great attention to the Beatles lyrics, because at the time, I was obsessed with their music. The result: I got a letter of commendation in prep class which was 80 % English lessons, we were also not allowed to speak Turkish during class though.)
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The_Polyglot
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posted July 11, 2015 01:48 PM |
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Find something that's fun that you like doing and start doing it in the target language. TV with subtitles, bilingual books, then entry-level target language books, then target-language books, target-language news sites... Or, go the alternate route and get a target-language girlfriend/boyfriend/squirrel(I'm not judging) You could always spend time in target-language territory, 2-3 months (TOTAL, not consecutive) and you are guaranteed to pick it up.
Or, have a fun target and work towards it: like, '3 years from now I'll be mistaken for a native in X, what do I have to do to achieve that?' Make it FUN and you'll get there.
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Raenus
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posted July 12, 2015 03:53 AM |
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Edited by Raenus at 04:04, 12 Jul 2015.
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It all depends on how serious you are about learning the language and how your brain responds to various learning methods. However I will say that going about it half-hearted will get you no where, there is no quick easy route.
If you are willing to dedicate 15-30 minutes a day to learning your language and don't mind a bit of studying, then I highly recommend either Duolingo or Memrise.
Both are free.
Both are quite easy and intuitive.
Both have mobile apps that, while not quite as good as using a computer, are very handy and easy to use on the go.
Memrise Pros and Cons.
+It is a bit more entertaining to use and feels less like you are studying.
+Takes a bit less commitment and time each day.
+Starts you out learning more complete phrases, easier to jump start into a language.
-It does not necessarily give you a foundation to help understand.
-It does not always explain why you use a certain word here and not there, ie. it does not always give you context.
Duolingo Pros and Cons.
+It gives you a better understanding of the language and how it works.
+It fully explains why you use this word here and that word there.
+It actually teaches you pronunciation as well as the written word.
+It is very similar to Rosetta Stone and I would definitely try it before shelling out cash for the real deal.
-It does feel like work sometimes.
-It can take a bit longer to actually learn enough to get by, though when you do start learning you learn fast.
Final thoughts, I feel personally that if you had to choose one I would go with Duolingo, it really helps you understand the why of your chosen language. However I am biased towards a more academic approach and you may have more luck with Memrise. They work very, very well together though and if you are serious about learning the language I would recommend using both in tandem.
If you really hate the idea of studying then everything Polyglot said is very good advice for you. I would only add that you could check to see if there is anyone in a community you are familiar with who knows the language and would be willing to help you as a kind of faux Pen Pal. Just send him a message in the given language every once in a while and have him correct your errors or tell you that you are on the right track.
There is also a myriad of sights that hook up people wanting to learn language A and know language B to people who want to learn B and know A (forgive me but I don't have a handy link here though if you are interested I could probably find one).
One last bit of advice, no matter what you decide on it always helped me greatly to try and think in the language you are learning. Especially if it has a different sentence structure to your own.
Sorry for the long post.
Good luck, have fun, and keep all of those cute women you want to talk to in mind.
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blizzardboy
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posted July 12, 2015 08:39 AM |
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K. When I tie up Storm-Giant and force him to have basic to intermediate conversations with me, I'll have an excuse.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
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posted July 20, 2015 07:49 AM |
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According to Duolingo I am already 17% fluent in Spanish, but I have a feeling that numeric is flattering
Totally going to break forum rules and get banned once I can communicate long paragraphs. Not gonna let THE MAN keep me down.
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PandaTar
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posted July 20, 2015 08:50 PM |
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Well, blizzarboy-san, there are some words you may already know by heart without knowing. These conversions are easy to get along, because they are pretty similar in some languages. For example:
"SION" particle
For words like confusion, fusion, corrosion, erosion; you'll have the Spanish counterpart sión (and são for Portuguese). Fusion = Fusión = Fusão.
"TION" particle
For words like emotion, action, faction, ebullition; you'll have ción (ção). Emotion = Emoción = Emoção.
"LY" particle
For wods like commonly, practically, immensely, normally; you'll have mente (mente). Practically = Virtualmente = Praticamente/Virtualmente.
And other stuff of that kind. There are many words in English that won't differ much when it comes to writing. Spanish has an advantage that it is easier to master vowel sounds, given there's not much variation. In Portuguese though, as I guess French might be also similar, there are many nasal intonations for every vowel, which is somewhat visible whenever foreigners try to pronounce words without knowing the language. However, as I noticed, USAians have most difficulties in pronouncing Spanish/Portuguese 'Rs'. On the other hand, Brazilians have a hard time mastering that 'TH' sound.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Storm-Giant
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posted July 20, 2015 09:01 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
K. When I tie up Storm-Giant and force him to have basic to intermediate conversations with me, I'll have an excuse.
Try Stevie instead, he is closer to your level anyway lol
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Whyte
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 04, 2015 02:42 PM |
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I have enjoyed reading this thread, I am learning French with Duolingo at the moment and some of the advise you guys have given here is really good  I think it will help me thanks 
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