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| Thread: The perks of producing 6 hero classes per faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted September 09, 2015 02:48 PM |
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romanov77 said:
No matter what you think or say, sooner or later those thin super-models are going to swing claymores and parry blows from burly orcs.
And it's going to look ridiculous.
Japanese-anime level ridiculous.
Ive seen girls do those things in real life. Just exchange an "Orc" with a 100+kg guy
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I'm just a Mirror of your self.
We see, we look, we gather, we store, we teach.
We are many, and you can be one of us.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 02:56 PM |
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If you're gonna tell me combat prowess has more to do with physical power than skill, I'm gonna have to laugh at you 
well, more that I already do 
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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romanov77
Known Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 04:28 PM |
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You guys are simply ignorant.
Fiction, coupled with ignorance of basic physics, has really messed with your perception of reality
Pick the most combat skilled individual on the planet and put him against a bear.
See who wins.
You see, combat skill can help but in REAL combat you need sheer luck to beat strength and mass.
Heck, there's a WHOLE WEIGHT CLASS SYSTEM used to make fights fair in sports and there are very good reasons why women do not fight men in sports.
There's also good reasons why wars have always been fought by men for thousands of years.
A woman, with some skill, might knock out some dumbass in a self-defense class or a clumsy robber.
But that's it, they do not have enough body strength to cause any real damage to a trained and fit male.
Consider medieval combat: good luck parrying a swing from a huge burly man with your flimsy supermodel arms which can barely hold and swing a two-handed sword: with some luck you will only end up with broken bones, bad luck and you are dead.
That's what happens in realty, unlike fiction,revenge fantasies, movies and silly anime.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted September 09, 2015 04:33 PM |
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give me a break romanov77, lol
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romanov77
Known Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 04:40 PM |
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verriker said:
give me a break romanov77, lol
So, are you telling me that with proper training you would be able to knock out Mike Tyson at his peak in hand to hand combat?
I suppose there would be plenty of anti-gravity backflips, attack calling and interior monologues involved.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 04:42 PM |
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Even, if that was true - which it is not, because sheer strength does nothing: remember, heroes are OFF the battlefield!
So, arms thinner or thicker - same diff. 
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romanov77
Known Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 04:55 PM |
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So, the whole weight class system in fighting sports exists because? The lulz?
And let's not talk about other sports.
Who can run faster?
Who can swim faster?
Who can jump farther?
Who can jump higher?
Who can throw farther?
Who can lift more?
Who has more endurance?
Go check world records. They are rather sexist.
To end this, I am NOT sexist.
There are plenty of women who can kick my ass and beat me at arm-wrestling. But none of them are anorexic super-models, trust me.
You want strong women in video-games?
Fine, but they would not be very "fan-serviceable".
I am sure that it would not be a problem for most of you, right?
OR it would? (you women objectifying fapping scumbags! )
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted September 09, 2015 04:55 PM |
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Edited by Neraus at 17:11, 09 Sep 2015.
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And effectively, nobody saw a particular thing about Haven, the "good" knights are all female, the "bad" knights are all male.
The Paladins are two females, the knight is a female, and yet the vindicators are two men.
So basically, being a man makes you more violent and all the same riff raff, can't be an honourable knight if you have a beard apparently, because at that point you're going to indict violence on the female villagers apparently...
And really, do they have anything against burly females? I'd expect female knights to be more like Brienne of Tharth (the TV series version), is there anything wrong in having butch looking women as knights?
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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romanov77
Known Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 05:03 PM |
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Neraus said:
And really, do they have anything against burly females? I'd expect female knights to be more like Brienne of Tharth (the TV series version), is there anything wrong in having butch looking women as knights?
Teenagers cannot fap to them and don't buy the game.
About the rest of your post, it's a growing trend in entertainment to portrait the following:
Men: clumsy ignorant rude man-child dumbasses
Women: smart, professional, independent and confident
Some time ago, we could have real badass women without this.
Remember Sarah Connor? Ripley? The characters played by Grace Jones?
Those were warrior women who could kick ass and snap these ridiculous modern "action models" like twigs.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 09, 2015 07:27 PM |
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Why are we even discussing this particular issue? I know that I am kinda late, so maybe I should read up ... it's just that I was busy studying my spellbook and trying to come up with a better version of Teleport, so I can skip the journey between home and the office where I work. Sleep longer and still appear on time for my boss, that kinda thing.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 07:33 PM |
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I'm just laughing at this guy 
When you're wielding a sword, all the strength in the world won't save you from a much weaker but slightly more skilled combatant.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 09, 2015 07:43 PM |
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Wow... never saw so much stereotypical content in so few posts.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 09, 2015 07:52 PM |
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In D&D which is one of the most classic settings, females are equal to males in all respects. Did that bother you too?
Also not all martial arts are strength-focused, whether hand-to-hand or with weapons.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted September 09, 2015 08:18 PM |
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Actually, physical strength is very important in hand-to-hand combat, be it with weapons or no. The only exception where strength wouldn't be such an important factor would be ranged weapons (tough bows and throwing weapons are influenced by strength, professional bow strings are pretty stiff and even guns since you need to control the recoil).
Doomforge said:
Double-lie. First, our human body has severe limitations. We can't push the speed of our arm or leg above certain point, which is innate anyway. But we can improve our coordination, reflexes.. and weight. Which makes a big, very big difference when skill is equal. Also, when the weight disproportion is HUGE, the bigger guy can DOMINATE without virtually any stamina, technique or anything - his sheer strength is just too much to handle!
Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MtjfKlRHYE
The infamous Bob Sapp vs. k1 legend, ernesto hoost. Sapp is big, very heavy, has a pathetic technique and knows nothing about fighting, but he wins BOTH fights against a very good fighter, who is 200 pounds himself anyway, great technician and experienced. Now imagine a man ~150 pounds, even with flawless technique, against this one. Just lol. Note: Sapp lost a lot of fights, but the fact he actually WON something with such a PATHETIC skill makes it VERY obvious that muscle mass is EXTREMELY important.
And due to sexual dimorphism, human females got a disadvantage, as they got only 50% of total upper body strength of males, respectively 70% of lower body strength, of course there is a different situation when it comes to athletes.
Even so, I see no reason why not to have a female knight.
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romanov77
Known Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 08:35 PM |
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The point was that I am bothered by super-models posing as warriors in recent entertainment material.
Like Scarlett Johansson beating guys thrice her weight and muscle mass. That bothers me.
Never been bothered by Grace Jones kicking James Bond ass.
Combat is not a martial art, it's not even an art, it's about bludgeoning your opponent until he stops moving.
Good lord, have you guys ever seen a real fight, like a bar brawl between two guys who want to kill each other?
Do you seriously think that all your martial arts and fancy moves count jack when you get bullrushed by a dude who weights twice as you?
It MIGHT, but unless you are strong, the odds are way against you.
It's incredible how popular culture tropes shapes the minds of people.
I bet most of the guys here think that combat happens just like in movies, with theatrical sword edge-on-edge parrying and other bullsnow you probably believe.
Kiryu133, you clearly don't know jack about swords, sword combat or even basic Newtonian physics involved.
Quote:
Actually, physical strength is very important in hand-to-hand combat, be it with weapons or no. The only exception where strength wouldn't be such an important factor would be ranged weapons (tough bows and throwing weapons are influenced by strength, professional bow strings are pretty stiff and even guns since you need to control the recoil).
Finally, some common sense.
Women and men ARE NOT EQUAL IN BODY, check the bloody World Records.
Men are much stronger on average, therefore men on average much better fighters. And that's why thousand of years ago people decided that war was men's business.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 08:59 PM |
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When the fight involves sharp ends so the winner is whoever gets the first hit I'm gonna bet on the smaller, more skilled fighter
Of course, that is if general equipment is similar enough. Skilled dagger user won't get many hits in against a claymore.
Since we're talking about heroes, I'm pretty certain we can assume the character in question will be pretty skilled and not get into the thick of it.
Oh, and before I forget: speed of a blade is gonna hit harder than weight behind it. Size won't improve your hits as much as you'd think so a woman fighting against an Orc? not nearly as on-sided as you seem to think.
Strength certainly matter, but when one hit will be enough, Skill is going to overshadow it. of course, medieval dueling had a lot of pushing/shoving, but It's pretty safe to assume Neraus is right about most of them being Closer to Brianne build than any of your Waifus build
Of course, Nothing of this matters in a fantasy setting (or any setting) and since non-sexualised Women are already woefully underrepresented anything like this is more than welcome.
And I'm still laughing at this dude
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted September 09, 2015 09:06 PM |
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Two words: fantasy setting.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 09:11 PM |
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romanov77 said:
Men are much stronger on average, therefore men on average much better fighters. And that's why thousand of years ago people decided that war was men's business
No, that happened because the people in Charge decided Women were resources rather than people and more valuable alive than dead. And even if it was true, wouldn't getting more soldiers be better, even if the extra ones you had were a bit weaker? Quantity has won more wars than quality (which is silly here since there is no guarantee the female soldiers would've been any worse than the male ones but it seems needed to put like that for your narrow outlook to understand)
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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romanov77
Known Hero
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posted September 09, 2015 09:21 PM |
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This is getting silly and way off topic, let's end this here.
I could counter everything you wrote with other arguments, and you would counter it back again with other arguments and all we would got in the end is wasted time.
Back on topic, the game has already enough tremendous issues before delving into gender issues.
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted September 09, 2015 09:57 PM |
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Nah, I'd just laugh. Because your views are so narrow and outdated they have no room in a civilized society so there wouldn't be much "arguing"
So, can we get some more heroes for every class, maybe? I'd say keep the knights all female just to mess with this dude here, but that's irrelevant: we really do need some more heroes. I would like one of the HAven mage classes to get GM water magic. Only one academy mage has it and that's kind of a bummer. Rampart also needs it.
really, several skills clearly needs someone, like a GM luck (Rampart) or GM diplomacy who also has access to T3 economy. Seriously, why is Giovanni, a necro hero, the only one with access to GM diplo and any economy? that's just stupid and makes no sense, gameplay or lore-wise!
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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