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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Sleeping_Sun's Necropolis Townscreen (H7)
Thread: Sleeping_Sun's Necropolis Townscreen (H7) This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 30, 2015 07:34 PM

I gotta say that's one hell of a TS! A bit on the claustrophobic side, but overall very nice and really suits necro!

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Zeki
Zeki


Supreme Hero
sup
posted September 30, 2015 08:00 PM
Edited by Zeki at 20:02, 30 Sep 2015.

Sleeping_Sun said:
alcibiades said:
Not to be a spoilsport or anything, but I can hardly see anything but black in that image?
Is it really that dark? If you can't see a thing, then I might brighten things up...


Depends on your screen. On my main pc i have a quite bright screen and i see everything perfectly but on smartphone i could barely distinguish anything, which might be the same for laptop users.^^

Also for planning on doing the other factions, too. Maybe you'll be ready when the game's cheap enough for me to buy
____________
Japanese Spiderman is the best Spiderman

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 30, 2015 08:03 PM
Edited by Sleeping_Sun at 20:10, 30 Sep 2015.

Thanks!

@Alci and EnergyZ
How much brighter is ok? 15, 30 50?
15
30
50

Panda, the links above could serve the daylight purpose, I guess.

@ThatRedSarah
I'm glad you like it. Yes, I planned the townscreen to show the inside of the town, which is more representative of the spirit of the old townscreens. If I find enough time, energy and nerve preservers, I'll do the rest of the factions after I'm done with this one.

@Antonsky07
I did this in GIMP. For some buildings, I had to cut them, and reassemble them in order to create 3D atmosphere through the right perspective, but everything was done only with the pictures. It would be a lot easier if I had done this in Blender or some other program with 3D models.

@TD
Thanks.

@Zeki
The thing about the dark issue... I also think it has to do with the display, some are brighter, others are lighter...

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ThatRedSarah
ThatRedSarah


Famous Hero
Adventuring Hero
posted September 30, 2015 08:35 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:
Thanks!
How much brighter is ok? 15, 30 50?
15
30
50



I would go as far as saying that the 50 is the best one. Its bright, but its still clearly "dark" and night time I actually saw the market place for the first time And the bottom left looks nice too When you look at the H3 townscreen its dark but everything is still clearly visible and there is no pitch black parts anywhere.

So i choose the 50

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 30, 2015 08:53 PM

@ThatRedSarah
Thanks for the reply. Hmm. 50 on my PC is a bit too bright for my taste... I'll until more people share their thoughts before doing anything...

I really hope that I do not have to make two versions of the TS.
____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted September 30, 2015 08:56 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 20:57, 30 Sep 2015.

30 is perfect I say: just light enough to make sure you can see everything but not so light it starts looking a bit like a theme park. I think colours is an area more in need of attention. it's a very flat grey ATM. Not very appealing or helpful.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 30, 2015 09:14 PM
Edited by TD at 21:15, 30 Sep 2015.

I like the 30 also. Ideally (in my head) there would be some light shade on the left side at the front, it just somehow catches my eye while the buildings look nice being light by the moon.
In the original the area doesn't really catch my eye in such way(it just looks more natural as whole to me).

PS I know I'm always too demanding customer

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celiton
celiton


Hired Hero
Thinking before doing
posted September 30, 2015 09:26 PM
Edited by celiton at 21:36, 30 Sep 2015.

Hello,

first of all nice work. Here is my concept beyond ashan necropolis town hall. what do you guys think?



please, be gentle it is my first time.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 30, 2015 09:28 PM

I can see the image at 30 and 50. It's still too monochrome for my taste, though, but that's just my personal taste.
____________
What will happen now?

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Antonsky07
Antonsky07

Tavern Dweller
posted September 30, 2015 09:49 PM
Edited by Antonsky07 at 21:52, 30 Sep 2015.

If you made them in GIMP then you are very talented because it is a lot easier (as you said) to make scene with right perspective in Blender than to work with multiple images and make them into something that looks 3-dimensional. As much I don't like 2d screens made by developers of the game I must admit that it allows both 2d and 3d artists to put their visions into game. It would be impossible if only 3d screens were in game.

Oh and I think the 15 version is by far the best, because you can clearly see all buildings but it doesn't destroy dark atmosphere of this town screen.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted September 30, 2015 11:55 PM

30 seems to be the sweet spot as well for me.

About the screen itself: Stevie mentioned something about torches and the like but you indicated that it contrasted with the moon too much. There's a way to remedy that, but that requires moving the moon off to the right hand side. The shadow of the taller buildings would then throw the central plaza in darkness, which could then be illuminated with torches and oillamps . But I realise that's a lot of work.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted September 30, 2015 11:58 PM
Edited by Stevie at 23:59, 30 Sep 2015.

It was EnergyZ who actually replied about the torches. But don't worry, a lot of people are turning into me lately, lol.

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted October 01, 2015 12:00 AM

Stevie said:
It was EnergyZ who actually replied about the torches. But don't worry, a lot of people are turning into me lately, lol.

You're becoming a role model.

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agent_catnip
agent_catnip

Tavern Dweller
posted October 01, 2015 05:29 AM

Too dark. Look at the h3 townscreen, it's very bright compared to this. h5 is much brighter, too. The lighting is off.
You really can't see anything here, and the perspective is not helping.

Same with Celiton's image. You're making a horror movie scene.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted October 01, 2015 09:46 AM

Stevie said:
It was EnergyZ who actually replied about the torches. But don't worry, a lot of people are turning into me lately, lol.


Lol, "it's one of those Stevie guys again! It's so cute how they talk about assimilating everyone every time" (cookie for who remembers the game I derived this quote from ).

Truth be said, I didn't clearly remember and once you're writing a reply, you can't read back on the forum here.

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Layn
Layn

Shaper of Lore
Technical Artist, Limbic Ent.
posted October 01, 2015 10:25 AM
Edited by Layn at 10:27, 01 Oct 2015.

I'd go with 30 as you can recognize everything in that one, and it's not too bright. Although I would add some rim light to the buildings, basically some of the building edges catching the moon light allowing them to pop a bit more without actually making them brighter. And then deepen the shadows more, giving it all a bit more contrast.
I feel it lacks a bit in light sources (maybe lightly glowing light fog in some places?), i mean it's undead, not dead, but i understand it wouldn't fit into what you are going for.

It's quite crowded, but in general i like it! Hope we can see it in a mod at some point!

Disclaimer: I've never actually done townscreens myself

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted October 01, 2015 11:20 PM

Thank you all for voting for the specific brightness. I guess that I'll try to deliver this TS in both dark and lighter (30) version, so that map makers/modders can choose a version according to their taste and display. Moreover, I do not think that I'll be doing any major overhaul of the TS, as I'm too eager to start doing something new (Sylvan). However, I'll try to have in mind all the criticism expressed here in the making of the next TS. As soon as I finish with the animations and with some proper testing of the TS with few members, I still have to deal with the TS UI that will hide the lower portion of the screen, which according to my speculations, it is roughly one third of the screen, but the future testing will give me a better insight of that issue.

@celiton
Thanks. I like your work. And it appears that we share a similar taste in the dark things that are better left in the dark. I know that it is difficult at first but, you'll get the hang of it. Trust me. This is also my first attempt to do something like this. Just find your own style, and hold onto your artistic decision, and learn from my mistakes.
So, generally I like the start. You might want to better blend the edges of the mountains where it connects with the sky. I'm targeting the right part of the mountains, but then again it could also represent the light reflecting against the mountains... I like the central building, but I'm not sure about the white fog/mist. I'm not sure how it will match with the other buildings. But I hope you'll continue with your version. Can't wait to see it.

@Antonsky07
I'm not sure if I'm talented or not, but I do have some tendency toward the perfectionism. Though, I agree the TS is far from perfect, I at least try to do my best with the knowledge and skill that I currently possess.

@agent_catnip
I have seen H3 and H5 townscreens. I believe that H3 TS is a bit too bright, but then again my screen might be too dark... About the "You're making a horror movie scene", well, Necropolis is what I would call the Gothic faction. And by the Gothic, I consider that it must contain the following characteristics: excess, sublime, ambivalence (the Other + binary opposition), terror and horror, transgression, and uncanny. Although not all are applicable onto this TS, the horror is meant to be a part of it, despite the fact that the term horror is difficult to pin down...

@Layn
Hi! Long time no see! It's good to see you around.  As I already said, I'm afraid that I will not change the visuals much. But thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it! I'll have it on my mind. Maybe I'll consult you for the Sylvan TS in the future.
____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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agent_catnip
agent_catnip

Tavern Dweller
posted October 02, 2015 05:11 AM

Sleeping_Sun said:
About the "You're making a horror movie scene", well, Necropolis is what I would call the Gothic faction.


Well, there are different kinds of horror, and also don't forget the b-movie horror, which relies on excess.
Heroes is a fantasy game series, almost a fairy tale. It's so high fantasy you can't go any higher. Necropolis has always been the darkest faction, and it has always had visuals matching the fairy tale style (although, a very dark one). It's not Silent Hill, and it's not Amnesia, it should symbolize terror, not try to evoke it in the player.
Just my two rubles.

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted October 02, 2015 08:35 AM
Edited by alcibiades at 08:38, 02 Oct 2015.

I think one of the reasons I'm not overly enthusiastic about your screen is that it feels too cluttered for me. As I see it, there are two ways to solve this issue: Either you can do as in Heroes 2 and give the buildings different colours to distinguish them from each other, or you can do as in Heroes 3 and add some space between buildings. This is not saying H3 Necro is the sweetspot to aim for, because actually I never really liked that townscreen (way too bland and monochrome for me, and seems too empty in order to separate the buildings), so in that regard H2 version works much better for me.

Also notice that having the moon in the back gives you some awkward lighting issues. Not only is there a contrast issue, it also means that everything becomes back-lit. H5 3D-screens solved this nicely because you'd see the light source (moon/sun) in the 3D rotation but not in the static 2D view, but in fixed 2D, this imo. means that it's actually better to have the light-source placed behind/to the side of the spectator rather than in front of him, again notice how H2 screen is lit from the right side.

I think H2 manages to have at the same time a fairly diverse colour-palette (black/white/blue-grey/brown/red) and at the same time seeming coherent and keeping the creapy atmosphere. There are some flaws - the teal on the zombie graveyuard is not well chosen for instance - but overall this is the best Necropolis we've had so far imo. Notice how the fact that there are very few building groups - 13 in total - makes it possible to make each of them stand out clearly; that's a point well worth taking note of because H7 completely fails in this aspect.

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted October 02, 2015 10:50 AM

@agent_catnip
I'm not sure if there are different kinds of horror. In my book, horror is horror, but it is implemented in a good way or bad. Moreover, the Gothic inherited some of its features from fairy tales, thus the darkness embodied in the TS is justified.

@alci
It is cluttered for a number of reasons. Firstly, the number of buildings in H7 is greater than in the previous games. And that is a notion that I had to follow. Secondly, I decided to add creatures to the screen, in order to make it more lively, or at least to provide a sense that it is inhabited. Thirdly, I chose a bad perspective for the TS, but I realized that too late. Thus, I have to live with the bad decisions that I have made.

As far the colours are concerned, this is how I imagined it. I think about changing some colours here and there... But when I give your the data for the TS, you'll all be able to modify them further, be it colour, brightness, add something, etc. If I had chosen another perspective the space between buildings could have been bigger.

The original idea was indeed for the moon to illuminate buildings, and that is the case with the right portion of the screen (the section starting from the road to the spider hill), however, because of some issues and my lack of planning in advance this is the current result, unfortunately.

Thanks for the feedback! It will help me not to do the same mistakes again.

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