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| Thread: Star Wars 7 Spoiler Review |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 24, 2015 02:04 PM |
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Ford was awesome as Solo for one last time.
I guess next one will be Rey, which I like btw, learning to be a Jedi, with Luke in Yoda's place.
Fisher was okay, not bad. That Supreme Leader is a nice sidious-lite, and those lite-Imperials are okay villains.
Good that Chewie and Threepio are as good as ever. And Hamill stil got it. 
So...nothing more really, just an appetizer for VIII and IX...and I hope that will be the end of this saga.
But I still liked TFA quite a bit more than I and II. 
edit: And as for Ren, I guess this what Anakin should have been more like. Too late now.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2015 04:02 PM |
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Crap, 2 hours waiting a miracle which never came. I think is same thing as for Avatar, except that Avatar had much more beautiful landscapes: when no actor has charisma, the movie can't hit you.
Solo and Leia are pathetically bland and lack any vital energy, the new familial connections don't make any sense, then the terrible obscure side of the force is defeated by an apprentice brat who never saw a lightsaber in her life. The only one who looks good -Luke, has a 5 seconds role and leaves you drooling.
And my money went to USA.
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Era II mods and utilities
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2015 05:13 PM |
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It wasn't bad movie, but nothing special either to me. It felt more like it's loosely based on old movies rather than a sequel. Maybe I was expecting too much by hoping for new plot.
As I recall to use force one needed years of training, yet in the movie the girl learned it all in few hours. Wasn't force something the Jedi/Sith could feel in others? Nope, not on her at least(maybe she kept it hidden in her pocket?). Last fight also felt so anti-climatic to me just screaming: "good guy has to win" -mentality. The movie just seemed to re-live old movies and it had so many little things that didn't seem right to me after watching the previous movies. I also think the new Darth Vader -wannabe was a very bad casting choice, didn't feel credible at all to me as a bad guy.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 24, 2015 05:14 PM |
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"That's not how the Force works!"
Luke learned it all despite not having been trained in the Jedi ways for most of his youth.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2015 05:27 PM |
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Luke was trained very early by Kenobi, then we recall that Luke was told to avoid combat with vader until trained by yoda. Therefore he delays everything and goes off to meet Yoda, then the training part is both physical and psychological -the dream about fighting himself through Vader.
To sum, we are told that the Force isn't something to take lightly and which comes on demand. Therefore, the huge shortcuts the last episode are, frankly, almost noobish.
Oh, this place happens to have a lightsaber, oh R2D2 wakes up and has the map, oh Han Solo just happened to be in the system, oh the main characters happen to be in the millennium falcon.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted December 24, 2015 05:32 PM |
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TD said:
As I recall to use force one needed years of training, yet in the movie the girl learned it all in few hours. Wasn't force something the Jedi/Sith could feel in others? Nope, not on her at least(maybe she kept it hidden in her pocket?).
Don't you find curious that she starts to feel and use the Force only after:
- she touches Luke's lightsaber, having several visions.
- Kylo is trying to extract the map from her mind, only then she sees Ren's fears and starts to slowly use the Force more and more.
?
The film is title the Force Awakens for a reason. I'm confident this will be explained in ep VIII (else it wouldn't make any sense).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2015 05:39 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Don't you find curious
I find it dumb. Because, if the things were the way you describe it, let's develop a bit: Rey is an orphan, scavenging for parts to get by, but magically somehow when she is told that she has the Force, she suddenly knows out of nowhere to use the Jedi mind trick, can beat the bad guy in a lightsaber duel, and fly the Falcon like an ace pilot. No training needed - so then Luke is a dunce for having to train under Yoda, right?
Why go and find Luke then? She is way better than him.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 24, 2015 06:23 PM |
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Edited by TD at 18:24, 24 Dec 2015.
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Storm-Giant said:
Don't you find curious that she starts to feel and use the Force only after:
- she touches Luke's lightsaber, having several visions.
- Kylo is trying to extract the map from her mind, only then she sees Ren's fears and starts to slowly use the Force more and more.
?
No, I don't. Wasn't the "force" partly explained as being part of the person biologically when Anakin was kid? I think they even measured it with some device and he had ton of whatever in his blood or system aside from just feeling the force from other person(and he wasn't "active" either then as I recall). The new movie just felt like it had ton of holes and stomps in it that didn't really make sense to me. So many things just made me ask "really?" during the movie.
If I considered episodes 1-3 kinda made for just to cash in on the first trilogy, this one did that for 100% certainty. This movie didn't feel like it really offered me anything(while episodes 1-3 did), this just re-used parts from previous movies. You could pretty much cut the whole movie from pieces of the old ones. The movie really would have needed its own plot, not just repeat of old one.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 24, 2015 06:37 PM |
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The film obviously tried to remake A New Hope... Old Han Solo killed by the dark side guy that he used to know, like Kenobi, Rey is almost like female Luke and also gets taken hostage, like Leia, and the dark side guy wants to take info out of her, the Starkiller is another form of Death Star, a droid contains valued information, there is Finn that's new-ish, and some variations.
And the First Order and Republic/Resistance still look and sound a lot like the Empire and the Rebel Alliance.
But I still call it a remake, even if it's a "sequel" officially.
And I think I like that more than doing another separate story... about another child "chosen" . 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 24, 2015 08:01 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 20:14, 24 Dec 2015.
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TD said:
As I recall to use force one needed years of training, yet in the movie the girl learned it all in few hours. Wasn't force something the Jedi/Sith could feel in others?
When Quigon Jin encountered Anakin, he only had a hunch that the boy was gifted, since he showed signs of it. Yet, he didn't really feel it in him, he had to get a blood sample to verify this - and then found out that his midichlorian count was off the chart. If Quigon couldn't clearly feel it in Anakin, how would anyone be able to feel it in Rey, without training in the Force?
Besides, Anakin only managed to pod-race as well as he did because he could see things before they happened. It made him the great pilot that he was. Can't the same apply to Rey?
Also, it's clear she did some work on the Falcon and coupled with her scavenging skills, I'd say her technical knowledge is pretty good. She knows what's valuable and what not, as well as how to (un)install it. You have to, if you have to survive in the Jakku wastes, otherwise you can forget earning rations.
Quote:
I also think the new Darth Vader -wannabe was a very bad casting choice, didn't feel credible at all to me as a bad guy.
I think you missed the point. I'll quote myself from page 1:
Quote:
People say the same about Adam Driver (Kylo Ren), that he doesn't come across as a convincing bad guy like Darth Vader or Count Dooku, but in my eyes, that was exactly the point. Darth Vader and the other Darths of the previous movies all had a long span of experience, they were well trained and had a cold en controlled approach. Not so the case with Kylo Ren: he was a young dog, imbalanced and his training wasn't complete (said so by Supreme Leader Snoke near the end). That he has emotional control issues is clear up to twice when he trashes some computer terminals in his anger, something no Sith in the movies ever did. Also, he quickly controlled Rey during the assault on Maz Katana's stronghold, but in their confrontation at the end, he failed hard - partially due to her increased Force powers, but also because he was totally imbalanced and losing control (killing his own father had a serious emotional impact on him, too).
His role was not to try to fill the big shoes of Darth Vader but to show that he was trying, something in which he succeeded wonderfully well.
Edit:
With regards to Luke's training, keep in mind that he only had the short training in the Force of Obi Wan Kenobi aboard the Millenium Falcon for as long as it lasted to get from Tatooine to Alderaan. After that, he was able to punch two torpedoes without computer guidance into the Death Star exhaust.
He also only needed about 3 months on Dagobah (which is about the time it took for the Falcon to reach Bespin from Hoth, with their hyperdrive down - yes, I know the movie doesn't really show the passing of this time, but in the books it's stated that it's a 3-month trip) of training from Yoda to become a full Jedi Knight.
It is my guess that Rey is Luke's daughter (the whole Star Wars saga is centered around the Skywalker family, after all) and hence also capable of picking things up quite fast. And unlike Anakin, Luke wasn't restrained in how fast he learned, as it seemed to come natural. If you remember the scene in the swamp where Luke lifts the X-Wing partially from the swamp, you see Yoda's eyes turn large. It was in fact a test from Yoda to see how strong Luke really was and he was surprised how quickly his powers had grown (also from the books, by the way). Anakin always complained that he felt Obi Wan was holding him back and that he could be the most powerful Jedi ever. If Rey is indeed next in line (and coincedentally, niece to Kylo Ren), wouldn't she have the knack to be a quick Force learner, too, like her father and grandfather?
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somi
Known Hero
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posted December 24, 2015 08:34 PM |
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Edited by somi at 20:39, 24 Dec 2015.
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Yea, Rey character knowing things from thin air is very bad character progression and lazy story telling. In all movies and cartoons (the only thing that is canon, with few books released in the last two years) you need to learn to use force. Rey from thin air uses mind tricks, from thin air knows how to fight with a lightsaber and beats a dude that was trained, and that can stop bolts in air without problem, can read minds (JJ Abrams mixing star trek and star wars little) and similar.
And its not because of some strange theory that you need to spin around, its simply because of lazy story telling. Its same with death start 3, with how whole republic is destroyed in one second, its just rushed and not good planed out plot.
Also Rey is probably grand daughter of obi one
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 24, 2015 09:39 PM |
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Edited by Kayna at 21:40, 24 Dec 2015.
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There is a video game that stars Darth Traya which answers certain questions regarding the force. She theorized that the force, good and evil, are always fighting each other, manipulating people into doing so, and such things like a jedi learning things on her own only to kick Ren's ass seconds later are things that wouldn't happen if there was a lot of jedi around.
It resembles the dungeon and dragon gods system a lot I think. 1 god has lots of ground to cover and can't be everywhere. If a god has but a little space left, he will see all and easily intervene.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 24, 2015 09:44 PM |
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TD said:
No, I don't. Wasn't the "force" partly explained as being part of the person biologically when Anakin was kid? I think they even measured it with some device and he had ton of whatever in his blood or system aside from just feeling the force from other person(and he wasn't "active" either then as I recall).
Midichlorians. 
Honestly I am unsure if they are keeping that as an explanation in the new films (or at least not mentioning it) as it was absolutely despised by most fans.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2015 09:50 PM |
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Maurice said:
Also, he quickly controlled Rey during the assault on Maz Katana's stronghold, but in their confrontation at the end, he failed hard - partially due to her increased Force powers, but also because he was totally imbalanced and losing control (killing his own father had a serious emotional impact on him, too).
Well sure its a valid point. If only... just before he hadn't a lightsaber fight with Fin, where he does not crush him in a second, as it should have -the fight lasts a while, a non experienced stormtrooper (he deserted at his first combat, he said). Or now Fin also got his force from pasta boliognese at lunch or? Doesn't make much sense to me.
(I don't recall exactly as my interest was dead by then, but didn't Fin also hurt him once? Or it was only Rey later?)
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 24, 2015 10:01 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Or now Fin also got his force from pasta boliognese at lunch or? Doesn't make much sense to me.
i get my force from beans, eggs, and beer. oh, the force i have within me after dining on those items...
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 24, 2015 10:05 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Well sure its a valid point. If only... just before he hadn't a lightsaber fight with Fin, where he does not crush him in a second, as it should have -the fight lasts a while, a non experienced stormtrooper (he deserted at his first combat, he said). Or now Fin also got his force from pasta boliognese at lunch or? Doesn't make much sense to me.
(I don't recall exactly as my interest was dead by then, but didn't Fin also hurt him once? Or it was only Rey later?)
Finn I also didn't buy that he had the Force, they tried to do too much with him and what for ? So yes, if you pick this film apart, it will fall, but it wasn't bad just for entertainemnt and nostalgic feels and general audience, so brace yourself for 2 more.
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted December 24, 2015 10:38 PM |
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Almost a week passed since I watched the film, and I realize more and more, that film is nothing special at all. I'd rather watch any of the previous films (yes, even the episodes 1, 2 and 3), than 7 again.
@Salamandre
Your description of the film sums up my thoughts exactly.
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"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted December 24, 2015 10:45 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 22:46, 24 Dec 2015.
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Finn may have run off at his first real battle (though slaughter is a better word for it), but he did receive combat training before being deployed of course. During the fight at Maz Kanata's stronghold, he goes mano-a-mano with a stormtrooper, showing some skills with melee weapons. It's not that far stretching to assume his combat training included melee weapons and melee combat too - especially since the other stormtrooper uses a melee weapon as well.
I didn't see any obvious signs that Finn uses the Force, though. He just managed to injure Ren during their fight, before he got defeated.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 24, 2015 11:36 PM |
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The problem is that they show him stopping a plasma bullet (or whatever it was) just like that, then they show him reading thoughts of everybody, levitating corpses. To sum, he is a very well trained jedi.
But of course, Fin, then Chewbacca manage to hurt him, while they have 0 special powers. I don't want to continue bickering over one detail, but if I remember well, the dark side of the force was painted as something VERY powerful in previous sequels. Or here, the first stormtrooper has a serious chance to kick a jedi ass. So for me the movie turned from StarWars to Cosmic Expendables, where the simple fact of being on the good side makes you invincible and where the bad guys miss all their shots.
It wasn't like that, it takes a whole plot and several episodes until Luke has a chance vs Vader. And I liked that.
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Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
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posted December 24, 2015 11:48 PM |
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Edited by Gryphs at 23:55, 24 Dec 2015.
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But Kylo is not supposed to be Vader. He does not have the experience of Vader. Now they did portray him as able to use the force to some extent, but that was only against targets that did not know how to use the force as well(and when he did he failed). He is inexperienced and heavily emotional just look to the scene where he slashes up computer terminals like an angry child. In the final fight he had just killed his father so he is not focused, hence him being wounded by Finn and ultimately defeated by Rey.
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"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy
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