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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Heroes 7 Positive Feedback and Discussion
Thread: Heroes 7 Positive Feedback and Discussion This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 11, 2016 10:53 PM
Edited by EnergyZ at 22:53, 11 Apr 2016.

Well, I also approve of the morale idea. For, sometimes you can surprise people in a good way with certain ideas. After all, it gives a strategic bonus - deepens the combat, doesn't it?
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 11, 2016 10:55 PM
Edited by Stevie at 22:56, 11 Apr 2016.

Blocking is strategy, one stacking is cheesiness, that's what it boils down to to me. I'm all in favor for a compensating mechanism.
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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted April 11, 2016 11:57 PM

Combat is tactics, while choosing whom to attack is strategy. One-stacking is a tactical approach. Having to consider morale before going into a battle where you plan on using that tactic is a strategic consideration. So I say that the morale-stack idea adds to the strategy of the game.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 12, 2016 08:42 AM

Stack-splitting for guarding is a tactical option you always have, it's sound, it won't be punished with any penalty. You have 30 shooters and 60 guards: splitting them in 3 x 20 to guard the shooters is no problem.

However, you have other options: You can split off 5 x 1, keeping a 55 guard stack as a separate hitter, with 5 blockers, 3 for immediate duty, 2 in reserve and/or for a retaliation-stealing attack to minimize losses.
In this case, since a killed stack means morale loss for the rest now, you may want to reconsider: how good IS your moral, how many losses can you actually stand?

And that means, you either risk morale failure in an important situation OR adjusting the number of your "sacrificial stacks" accordingly OR you try and get your morale up with skills or map location visits.

What could possibly wrong with that?

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted April 12, 2016 09:02 AM

I'm generally pro the 1-stack mechanism to steal retaliations and block creatures. Sure, it's both unrealistic and cheesy like hell, but it's one of the key features to allow the player to actually outsmart the game in tactical combat, thus adding fun to the game. One of the things that makes Heroes combat fun is when you learn to use these tricks to your advantage to take on nominally far stronger neutral stacks with minimal losses, which is obviously why good heroes players can win against an AI that gets massive bonuses.

Heroes 4 is a good example of what happens when you try to take these elements out of the game. I can understand the reasoning behind the simultaneous retaliation from a realism/balance point of view, but even if it's more realism, it killed a huge part of the point of combat and was a horrible idea because of that: With simultaneous retaliation, the whole aspect of strategic positioning and who-gets-to-hit-who-first disappears - it makes zero difference whether A attacks B or B attacks A. This takes a huge strategic element out of the combat and reduces it to a mere numbers game: The one with the larger army wins, and the more even the armies are, the bigger his losses will be. Heroes 4 did not quite end there, but it was a big step in the wrong direction in my opinion. For the same reason, I do thing that 1-stacking makes the game more fun (if less realistic).

WHEN THAT'S SAID, I'm not against some minor balancing measure, and a morale penalty when a stack dies seems like a good tool to use. It's worth noting that this must be on a per-stack basis and not on a percent-of-army basis exactly to ensure that this does not become a tool specifically to penalize the loser/the one with the weaker army, but becomes a strategic control tool.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted April 12, 2016 09:34 AM

I'm not sure the idea was to counterbalance the 1 unit exploit. I mean, morale was always a rigid affair when a dynamic approach would have been more interesting. Would be nice to further expand on it.

Besides, H6 proved that we absolutely need abilities that break formations and H7 provided a number of them. A fair means of tackling 1-unit stacks since it gives you the option to react accordingly.
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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted April 12, 2016 09:18 PM

I like the fact that one town cannot have *all* buildings. Simply said, it brings out an uniqueness. Plus, one can also construct something more suitable to their (current) need.

Also, not only champions require rare resources, but the elite troops as well. Makes a better challenge in which creatures you'd need to buy.

As said before, killing a stack decreases the morale. The system could be improved though, otherwise one could never even get a turn to act, at least by what I heard.

Some of the creature designs. *Some*. Excluding the reused ones.

The storyline seems sort of nice. Bonus for the campaigns of Axeoth, too.

The fact that the war machines could be improved is good, too. So they aren't just useful in the start of the game. And the war machines' are special as well, since their effects range from one faction to the other.

Oh, and yeah, do the credits still list that "top 30 Shadow Councillors" list? Sounds funny, but I approve of that.

That's all what I could think of. Maybe by actually playing the game the list would expand. The negative list would be much longer, but this is not the place to speak of it.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 12, 2016 09:35 PM

There is actually another thing I like.

The change from "mass" spell to "area" spell. Casting mass spells is something of a no-brainer. You cast a spell and all enemy or allied troops are affected.
Area spells, though, make it positional. If you want to have a maximum number of your own units affected, you have to concentrate them in a small area. As opposed to thet, if you want to avoid that a lot of your troops are "hurt" you can't turtle. And vice versa.

Makes the whole thing more interesting, and also you have another balance option, the size of the affected area.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 12, 2016 09:53 PM
Edited by Stevie at 21:54, 12 Apr 2016.

That's a good change indeed. Tho I like mass spells in other circumstances too (think they should be high level or require heavy investment one way or another).

Wait, are we actually liking Heroes 7?
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted April 12, 2016 09:54 PM

Some of it's parts
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 12, 2016 10:04 PM

On the note of magic system and given the context of Heroes 7, I also like the Arcane Knowledge giving access to more spells, a Wisdom stats of sorts, even thought I consider it more of a necessary evil than anything else. Acquisition of spells should've been way different, it's just too bad that the 7 magic schools doesn't help things at all. At least there's the specialization thing, another good idea that should've been explored further with more picks and bans.
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted April 12, 2016 10:11 PM

Seven schools ruined the spell system.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 12, 2016 10:13 PM
Edited by Stevie at 22:14, 12 Apr 2016.

More than anything I think it was the implementation. I personally think it could've worked given more means to control it.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 12, 2016 10:47 PM
Edited by Stevie at 22:49, 12 Apr 2016.

Another thing I like about Heroes 7 is how factions skills are tied with the heroes, so they potentially work with any kind of army.
...

Okay, I swear I'm done now.
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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted April 13, 2016 12:13 AM
Edited by Brukernavn at 02:38, 13 Apr 2016.

Temporary closed so I can do some clean-up And done.

Most of the posts that were kinda off-topic but still worth saving are quoted here.

Some remarks:
* If you plan on writing something good, which you know will be off-topic, try posting it somewhere it belongs and give a link in the original thread. Then you don't have to risk it being deleted, and it saves us a lot of time
* It is not off-topc to be critical of aspects or strategies for H7 in this thread, but it should be constructive and realistic since this thread is targeted at those who already enjoy the game and want to make it even better.
* If you have issues with moderator actions or other members just IM one of us so we can deal with it without derailing the conversation.

Carry on

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted April 13, 2016 08:41 AM

A thread i can read and not feel bad about myself and my spent 30€
I have invested lots of hours into the game and i had my fun. Looking for patches to continue with the game.
Some skills make for interesting combos and i want to find more!
Can t wait for earth magic and necros
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted April 13, 2016 08:49 AM

Things I liked:

---

- Keeping the H6 feature of sp affecting buffs/curses.

- Choice between dwelling growth boosters.

- Giving skills more of an impact. Sometimes way too much.

- More building dilemmas than in H6 even if the implementation was terrible.

- Dual champions.

- Widening the gap in strength between tiers and giving us actually good champions.

- Return of warmachines/guilds but that was kind of a given.

- More diverse warmachines.

- Lack of racial micromanagement and somewhat interesting racial abilities. Sadly some never saw the light of day.

- Enchanting music, closer to the feel of the old. Credit where it's due, some of my favourite H7 tracks are not from King and Romero.

- RMG from the start though I hear it kinda sucks?

- Sim turns from the start except I already know they suck.

- Awesome brutal haven design.

- Not a fan of massively reused assets but it is a good thing when it comes to introducing more neutral units.

- Some lovely new spell mechanics.

- Acceptable amount of spells, somewhat diminished by the amount of spell clones.

- Some interesting skill ideas.

---

Sadly, there seems to be a but for almost every one of them.
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blob2
blob2


Legendary Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted April 13, 2016 08:05 PM

My positive feedback? They can't go any worse then H7 so H8 will be a good game!

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted April 13, 2016 08:37 PM

Well, if people keep listing all these good things, we'll get to 1.000 pages soon enough.

Not to say that I didn't like anything at all, back then when they first explained some changes, the easy creature pooling (due the combination of features such as those teleporting devices and town conversion) not being present was a good touch. It was, then, just a matter of tweaking features rather than just crossing out, although I myself wouldn't miss town conversion the way it was.
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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted April 13, 2016 11:43 PM

blob2 said:
My positive feedback? They can't go any worse then H7 so H8 will be a good game!
Oh, I am sure they could, after all, with H8's hypothetical budget I am sure they would just copy H7 and add some of H6's other fantastic ideas.

If I had to say something positive about H7 it would be that there was some nice art direction; however, some of the art direction was awful so that is kind of canceled out. A shame I cannot think of anything else given how thrilled I was when it was announced.
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