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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Heroes 7 Positive Feedback and Discussion
Thread: Heroes 7 Positive Feedback and Discussion This thread is 7 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT»
Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted April 10, 2016 08:01 PM

frostymuaddib said:
Can you please name the changes that concern points that we discussed (I'm curious)?


Sure I can but which discussion do you mean?

We discussed together more times
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted April 10, 2016 08:06 PM

frostymuaddib said:
Antalyan said:

Racial abilities - the factions have very different playstyles thanks to them so it is exciting to play them (no H6.2 with all the factions similar to each other)



Antalyan said:

Overall skillwheel mechanics (skill+perks)



Antalyan said:

Arcane knowledge system



Antalyan said:

Amazing towntrees - there are choices between two buildings, towntree levels, you cannot build the town two quickly





I meant this one
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted April 10, 2016 08:30 PM
Edited by Antalyan at 20:36, 10 Apr 2016.

frostymuaddib said:

Racial abilities, I like the concept (since H5), but what I don't like is that they tend to make you use only creatures that are the race of the hero. If they could be implemented to work with all creatures, that could be fun. (NOTE: I'm talking abount H5 and H6. Don't know how they were implemented in H7)


As far as I know, the racial abilities work usually with all creatures in H7, not only with the ones of the same race as the hero is. At least the the tooltip for these skills does not say anything about the race restriction. Also they are more specific than in H5 (Artificer was quite strange for academy in H5 in my opinion, as it was a magic faction).

frostymuaddib said:

I think they are nothing compared to H5's ones, but it is a matter of taste, I guess.

They are similar to H5 ones but only without the connections among them. But there is a skill system change planned for the future so who knows how it will look like. Next week (starting tomorrow), there should be some SC post about upcoming changes, so hopefully about this as well?

frostymuaddib said:

This was implemented after the beta, I think? If it is, I haven't played with that.

Yes, arcane knowledge system was not in the game at the beginning but it is a cool idea. You can learn all the spells of the magic circle if you have the neccessary amount of arcane knowledges. But only the schools you learn the skills in will me really powerful. There are aslo perks improving the spell effects.

frostymuaddib said:

During the beta, I felt that the presented choices were no-brainers. On the other hand, there were soem stupid requirements: mage guild lvl 5 for champion dwelling, or something like that.


Champions work pretty different than in H5 or H6, they are much more powerful. They are definitely difficult to be killed and during most of the medium size maps, you will not have more than 10 champions.
So the high requirements for them is not a problem. I see as the high advantage that the towns cannot be built quickly and that buildings are not cheap. As regards the choices, it is not always clear what to choose.
Fortunately not much changes in town mechanics.




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Brukernavn
Brukernavn

Hero of Order
posted April 10, 2016 11:05 PM

I removed some off-topic posts. Please respect the purpose of the thread.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 11, 2016 10:46 AM

Antalyan said:
Overall skillwheel mechanics (skill+perks)
Arcane knowledge system
Amazing towntrees - there are choices between two buildings, towntree levels, you cannot build the town too quickly


These aspects have been criticized to variying degrees, however.

The free pick of the skillwheel is generally considered to be detrimental to replayability: for a given skillwheel, you'll likely always follow the same path, whereas a system like in Heroes3/5 may force you into directions that you hadn't planned on. The system of Heroes7 is closer to an RPG system, while in its roots, Heroes has always been a TBS game. But if I recall, you prefer the RPG elements?

Arcane Knowledge is perhaps a way to control which spells a Hero can learn, but it also hinges on learning multiple Magic skills, while under water it's basically a Wisdom-type skill. Personally, I feel the current implementation is just a patch to cover a flaw, while there's more potential to be had.

The Towntrees could have been better, I think. They're too restrictive now, with as many levels as they have; previous Heroes titles could have shortcuts (like week-1 Behemoths for Stronghold in Heroes3, provided you got the resources) which made factions unique; such shortcuts don't really exist in Heroes7, making all factions more or less similar. The only thing that I've noticed makes a real difference is the various levels at which factions get access to their Mage Guild tiers. As others have indicated, what also would have made a significant impact on playing a faction is if the player would have to choose 3 out of 4 Cores as well as Elites, which would require a different Towntree structure as well I guess.
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted April 11, 2016 02:21 PM
Edited by ChrisD1 at 14:21, 11 Apr 2016.

Maurice said:
Antalyan said:
Overall skillwheel mechanics (skill+perks)
Arcane knowledge system
Amazing towntrees - there are choices between two buildings, towntree levels, you cannot build the town too quickly


These aspects have been criticized to variying degrees, however.

The free pick of the skillwheel is generally considered to be detrimental to replayability: for a given skillwheel, you'll likely always follow the same path, whereas a system like in Heroes3/5 may force you into directions that you hadn't planned on. The system of Heroes7 is closer to an RPG system, while in its roots, Heroes has always been a TBS game. But if I recall, you prefer the RPG elements?


ugh this again... this is all theoretical and frankly a reason to complain.
"wine is served in a wine glass, not in a cup. if it's served in a cup it's not wine and there is no reason to drink it, anyone who does drink it in a cup is not a real wine lover"
Get out of your heads already!!!!! (i'm trying so hard to not be like genious genya here).

I know about imbalances and bad wheels, but I'm talking about the random vs free level up here, besides those imperfections.
also again everyone is on a crusade against free system (regardless the bad wheels) yet in any other heroes game you strove to get a certain build but with some hoops here and there but 99% of the times you ended up with what you wanted. please for anyone's sake leave the hypocrisy. ubisoft is bad, the game is flawed even the rocks know it.
Don't try to dig up more faults. YOU ARE RIGHT WE GET IT! GOOD FOR YOU! NO NEED FOR AN OVERKILL
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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted April 11, 2016 02:32 PM

ChrisD1 said:
also again everyone is on a crusade against free system (regardless the bad wheels) yet in any other heroes game you strove to get a certain build but with some hoops here and there but 99% of the times you ended up with what you wanted. please for anyone's sake leave the hypocrisy.

Getting the right builds by knowing the odds was fun and rewarding, and the randomness had the game propose to you, which offers variety as well as a nice flavor, a free system could have been made optional but not the other way around.

Quote:
Don't try to dig up more faults.L

He's not trying to "dig up more faults", he's questioning the starting mindset of game designers which is quite far from the series roots.
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted April 11, 2016 02:54 PM

it was controlled randomness which is such a conflicting term, and honestly since one likes theory so much(that starts pondering about game's roots) it's the same thing as the free leveling up. no one's saying it was bad. it was damn good and fun but that doesn't mean anything else is garbage.
and i call bogus on the game's roots because of the free leveling system. i'm leaving this discussion if don't want another annoying email by the mod about being rude but old timers here do and say what they want. ugh
also we are derailing the thread. you can still find faults on your own 1000+ thread, come on. people here want to share the good not defend their opinion against every one of you. just leave the damn thread already!!!!!! do you need ALL of the forum to yourselves???
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
Crotch Connoisseur
posted April 11, 2016 03:14 PM

after looking at some screenshots, i can say that i like how the topography(ground) alternates, and isn't just flat. also, some of the textures are... ok.











...although i've seen far better elsewhere.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 11, 2016 03:15 PM

I may not have worded it quite as elaborate into a question, but I am actually interested in Antalya's response to the points I make. He obviously disagrees with those sentiments, but I can't see why. If it's just a matter of personal preference, then so be it. But that is as of yet unclear to me.
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Hermes
Hermes


Famous Hero
posted April 11, 2016 03:23 PM

Wow you gotta be kidding yourselves if you really think this topic will attract people who like Heroes 7!( or even this site in general) Try harder next time. Such a bait this topic is, wow. Lol.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted April 11, 2016 04:11 PM

I like that you lose Morale when you lose a stack.

That's something that was suggested a long time ago - and lo and behold, it has been delivered.
It's something of a counterbalance against extensive stack-splitting (needed for blocking and retaliation-stealing) - so that's something good.

Now, if the game was interesting enough to actually bother with splitting, if playing at all ...

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted April 11, 2016 04:22 PM

JollyJoker said:
That's something that was suggested a long time ago - and lo and behold, it has been delivered.
It's something of a counterbalance against extensive stack-splitting (needed for blocking and retaliation-stealing) - so that's something good.


Actually that's a fair point. For some reason I totally forgot about it.
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted April 11, 2016 04:30 PM

Maurice said:
Antalyan said:
Overall skillwheel mechanics (skill+perks)
Arcane knowledge system
Amazing towntrees - there are choices between two buildings, towntree levels, you cannot build the town too quickly


These aspects have been criticized to variying degrees, however.

The free pick of the skillwheel is generally considered to be detrimental to replayability: for a given skillwheel, you'll likely always follow the same path, whereas a system like in Heroes3/5 may force you into directions that you hadn't planned on. The system of Heroes7 is closer to an RPG system, while in its roots, Heroes has always been a TBS game. But if I recall, you prefer the RPG elements?

Arcane Knowledge is perhaps a way to control which spells a Hero can learn, but it also hinges on learning multiple Magic skills, while under water it's basically a Wisdom-type skill. Personally, I feel the current implementation is just a patch to cover a flaw, while there's more potential to be had.

The Towntrees could have been better, I think. They're too restrictive now, with as many levels as they have; previous Heroes titles could have shortcuts (like week-1 Behemoths for Stronghold in Heroes3, provided you got the resources) which made factions unique; such shortcuts don't really exist in Heroes7, making all factions more or less similar. The only thing that I've noticed makes a real difference is the various levels at which factions get access to their Mage Guild tiers. As others have indicated, what also would have made a significant impact on playing a faction is if the player would have to choose 3 out of 4 Cores as well as Elites, which would require a different Towntree structure as well I guess.


I agree that the current wheel is great only if you play the game for the first time. As soon as you have once finished, there is not much you could do different as regards choices in the skills. You are right that I generally like rpg elements but in most of rpgs you can choose the hero at the beginning so you can play again with different skills if you like. There are something I wrote about this some time ago: 1 2

I see no problem in Arcane knowledge system, I like it a lot. You can learn nearly all the spells /excluding the forbidden ones/ but they will not be much poweful if you have not learned a specificied skill for them. The only think I do not like much on this system is the fact that it does not work well with the skill system where the heroes have predetermined magic schools they can learn/improve in. For example I would like to have my sylvan hero casting powerful light magic spells but I do not have this possibility.

As regards the towntrees, I like them having a lot of levels because I do not like if I can build up the towns quickly (H6 was pretty terrible in this regard.) The shortcuts is not a bad idea but brings unbalance. And finally, I would really welcome the possibility to choose from more units (4 core / 3 elite / 2 champion).

I hope it answers you something
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted April 11, 2016 04:49 PM
Edited by frostymuaddib at 16:52, 11 Apr 2016.

@Hermes

This thrtead is not a bait. And I think Antalyan realized that. The way you react to it is up to you. If you prefer to act like someone poor who cannot express from "big bad NWC lovers", that is your right But if you really want to say why you like Heroes 7 and why you love to play it you are free too. As I said at the beggining, I would love to se other side of the story. But, it is up to you to decide what will you do.

@ChrisD1

No need to be angry about skill wheel If it's randomness was implemented in the reasonable way, and if option to select/deselect randomness remained, everyone would be happy. I hate free pick, as it  kills replayability. You just end up using the same build, because it is the best (that is what happened in H6, and judging by the beta, H7 is not that different, though it may seem so. If I recall, JJ had gread suggestions about skill wheel design.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted April 11, 2016 05:07 PM

Antalyan said:
I hope it answers you something


Sure does. I read the two links you posted as well and it seems we agree about the lack of replayability at least .

And frosty is right, they could have implemented various systems that the player chooses right from the start of the game. Random or free choice, depending on preferred choice. In multiplayer, each player could opt for one of them and the majority counts. On a tie, the game hosts' preference is taken for the game.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 11, 2016 05:25 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 17:26, 11 Apr 2016.

JollyJoker said:
I like that you lose Morale when you lose a stack.


I didn't try the game but I hardly see how losing a stack provoking lower morale is a good thing. Actually this is shockingly against all Heroes traditions, which are based on taking the retal with single stacks, in order to optimize casualties.

So you will lose 6 single stacks but keep retals at minimum, and this is and always was battle strategy, which is ruined now by that morale thing, if it is true what you say.
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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted April 11, 2016 05:51 PM

Salamandre said:
JollyJoker said:
I like that you lose Morale when you lose a stack.


I didn't try the game but I hardly see how losing a stack provoking lower morale is a good thing. Actually this is shockingly against all Heroes traditions, which are based on taking the retal with single stacks, in order to optimize casualties.

So you will lose 6 single stacks but keep retals at minimum, and this is and always was battle strategy, which is ruined now by that morale thing, if it is true what you say.


At first I thought it was a good idea but after playing I agree with sal. Maybe it was also implemented badly. For example if I summon an elemental and use it to waste the enemies retaliation, if the summon dies my units lose morale. That doesn't make sense to me.

Now if it was limited to my factions units I'd be more open to it. But still it is taking away from a strategy that's been used in every prior heroes game. Pretty sure an entire army wouldn't lose faith if they saw there fellow comrade sacrifice themselves to save the rest

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 11, 2016 06:13 PM

If you want it different, then do it realistically, lower morale depending on % casualties based on your entire army (HP sum), no 1 stack. It makes no sense that your 94565 angels 1st stack loses morale because the single goblin in 7th stack died to a dragon fart.
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dark-whisperer
dark-whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted April 11, 2016 06:26 PM

But it makes sense when 94565 angels cant reach back row shooter because there are 3x1 goblin around them?

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