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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Movement (adventure) - Logistics&speed
Thread: Movement (adventure) - Logistics&speed
siryus13
siryus13


Hired Hero
posted July 02, 2016 06:36 PM
Edited by siryus13 at 18:46, 02 Jul 2016.

Movement (adventure) - Logistics&speed

I was curious so tested myself; sorry if it has been already mentioned somewhere but I felt like summing up; so here you are!

So; how exactly far can you go with logistics?

With a normal (non logistic specialist hero) having no logistics and a creature in your hero's army with a speed of 3 means that you can move 1500 movement points accross the adventure map.

[usually 140 movement points equal to 1 actual movement (=tile) on the adventure map - depending on the terrain ofc..]

Basic Logistics: +10% mv speed
Advanced Lgositics: +20%
Expert Logistics: +30%

see the link <-

as you can see there are three heroes that are have Logistics speciality: Dessa, Gunnar and Kyrre.
This means that they: "Receives a 5% per level bonus to Logistics skill percentage."
so at level 57 they are benefiting +100% bonus to that 30% movement point increase, which equals to an 60% overall increase (30% + 30*100/100% = 60%)


What are the coefficients and factors that will affect how much you move?
- Your army: Your speed on the adv. map will always depend on your slowest creature that your hero is carrying.

See the link <-

I'd done the calculations in movement points:
[playing a 'normal' hero]
- having a creature with speed 3 in the army = 1500 movement points
- speed 4 = 1560
...
- speed 11+ = 2000 (so having Phoenixes <speed=21> will not give you any further advantage in terms of more movement accross adv.map as if you had Archangels <speed=18>

http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Movement

-Regarding the third factor; the terrain:
Riding on native terrain gives you no penalty; whereas swamp will slow you down by 175%!

One more http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Road regarding the roads:
Riding on the best quality road (cobblestone) allows you to run 2x as far.

Finaly things that can further increase your movement:
- Stables: Gives +400 movement points

- Artifacts: Equestrian Gloves: +300; Boots of Speed +600
NOTE! artifacts that increase the base speed of your creatures like: Cape of Velocity,Necklace of Swiftness and Ring of the Wayfarer will NOT make a your speed 3 unit go as a speed 5 on the adv.map for example; its unaffected here and thus will stay as speed 3.

Objects:
- Fountain of Youth +400 for that day +1 morale
- Oasis +800 mv +1 morale
- Watering Hole +400 mv +1 morale
- Swan Pond "causes the visiting hero to lose all remaining movement points for the day"

[water]
...as Boarding or disembarking from a boat takes the remainder of a hero's movement allowance for the current day.

FUN FACT TO MENTION!
"Disembarking is possible to any clear square of land, except if the tile has a hole in it. It is impossible to disembark to a square with hole, but it is possible to board a boat from a square with hole."

<Navigation skill>
-Basic: +50% water mv;
-Advanced +100%
-Expert +150%

Favorable Winds - aka water 'roads'

Additionally, heroes can get across water squares with Water Walk and Fly spells, or by wearing Boots of Levitation or Angel Wings. The diffrence is, that only hero in a boat can end their movement on water while crossing the water requires that they end their movement on dry land. It should be noted, that shroud on the water between two squares of dry land does not prevent hero from walking or flying across it and mapping the shrouded area. However, the hero must be able to see both land squares before starting the trip.
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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted July 02, 2016 06:42 PM

siryus13 said:
+FUN FACT2#: you can destroy enemy hero with just one spell if he is approaching you via boat.. no matter how great armies ha has; with the http://heroes.thelazy.net/wiki/Scuttle_Boat spell.


No you can't. The boat must be unoccupied.

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siryus13
siryus13


Hired Hero
posted July 02, 2016 06:47 PM

frostymuaddib: yes you are right; thanks for the correction!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 02, 2016 06:50 PM

Also AI converts water walk in fly, so you must be careful when you allow water walk in a map, AI crossing water will be able to reach anything in movement range.

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Biobob
Biobob


Famous Hero
the Bobler
posted July 02, 2016 07:09 PM
Edited by Biobob at 08:56, 03 Jul 2016.

2 Things:

Basic cost for moving one tile horizontally (up, right, down, left)  is 100, not 140. Cost for diagonal is 100*&#8730;(2). Also, regarding speed artifacts and such, note that creature specialists DO increase the creatures speed in the calculation.

Some facts about critical condition (moving diagonally on last step):

We know now that one horizontal move (N E S W) on grasslike terrain costs 100 movement, one move diagonally (SW SE NW NE) is 100*&#8730;(2) [abbreviated to 141 from here on, &#8730;(2)=1,41...];
what if we only have 100 points left but want to move diagonally (SW SE NW NE)?  The computer allows it.  We call this "final move bonus".

The 'critical condition' for 'final move bonus' on grasslike terrain is
movement points >= 100 and < 141.
On rough terrains it is movement points > 100 and < 100 * rough(1,25 or 1,5 or 1,75) * 1,41
On rough terrains but expert pathfinding is to > 100 and <  141

This final move bonus always costs 100 (* 0,75 or 0,65 or 0,5 if on roads).

This can be used in a scenario of Nomads and dirt roads:
In desert it is 150 and 150*1,41, so actually on the final moves (on dirt road to destination), at first,  movement left (in this example 200) can not sustain a (150*1,41)  so the game thinks it allows one to make the step, which costs 100 then, but it does not count the dirt road, so we move one step and spend only 100*75% = 75 points
and we are left 200 -> we can afford two 75's!

What if we have nomads?
It makes the cost 100 and 141, so we move once at cost of 105,75 (141 * 0,75) -> can 200 sustain two 105,75's?  Nope... Conclusion: Sometimes pathfinding plays to your disadvantage (although extremely rarely)!

I'll later upload an example map on this matter.

Greets
____________
Maps
The Mapmaker's Thread

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 02, 2016 10:08 PM
Edited by Maurice at 12:39, 03 Jul 2016.

siryus13 said:
as you can see there are three heroes that are have Logistics speciality: Dessa, Gunnar and Kyrre.
This means that they: "Receives a 5% per level bonus to Logistics skill percentage."
so at level 57 they are benefiting +100% bonus to that 30% movement point increase, which equals to an 60% overall increase (30% + 30*100/100% = 60%)


Incorrect. The specialty grants 5% per level as bonus to the skill. At level 20, that bonus is therefore 5% x 20 = 100%. As such, at level 20 a Hero with the Logistics specialty has a 60% bonus to movement.

At level 57, that bonus has increased to 5% x 57 = 285%, for an effective total bonus of 30% x (100% + 285%) = 115,5% to movement.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 03, 2016 09:37 AM

Maurice said:

At level 57, that bonus has increased to 5% x 57 = 285%, for an
total bonus of 30% x 285% = 88,5% to movement.

At level 57 they would actually get +115,5% to movement.
At level 20 the skill is doubled, 40 it's tripled and 60 quadrupled.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted July 03, 2016 12:39 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Maurice said:

At level 57, that bonus has increased to 5% x 57 = 285%, for an
total bonus of 30% x 285% = 88,5% to movement.

At level 57 they would actually get +115,5% to movement.
At level 20 the skill is doubled, 40 it's tripled and 60 quadrupled.


You are indeed correct. I only added the bonus due to specialty, forgetting the base component . It's indeed 115,5% bonus movement over a Hero without Logistics.

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siryus13
siryus13


Hired Hero
posted July 03, 2016 05:38 PM

thank you guys for clearifying

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted July 05, 2016 11:49 AM
Edited by natalka at 11:54, 05 Jul 2016.

my 2 cents

hero maximum movement for next turn depends on slowest creature speed(SCS) but the following apply:

- artifacts giving creture speed don`t icrease SCS
- sir Mullich doesn`t increase SCS
- bonus native land(+1 speed) doesn`t increase SCS
- creatures specialists bonus to speed(+1 speed) increases SCS

formula for logistics heroes is k*(1+0.05*level) where k =10/20/30% depending on hero level. Maximum possible bonus is 192% movement achieved on level 108.

buildings that increase movement for the day

- oasis - 800 mp
- rally flag, fountain of youth, watering hole - 400 mp

buildings that increase movement for the week

- stables -400 mp/day
- lighthouse - 500 mp/day per lighthouse

terrain penalty

terrain penalty doesn`t happen when:

- when hero is under Fly spell or has angel wings artifact (*)
- when there are nomads in the army and hero moves over sand
- all hero units are native to the current terrain
- when there are neutral and native units to the current terrain. In order to avoid terrain penalty all neutral units must be to the left of the other units.

Exclusion - last movement tile always has terrain penalty.
This combines with the rule for 'final move bonus' (>= 100 and < 141.)
e.g if hero has 100 MP and one djinn in army and has to make a diagonal move on snow he won`t be able to do so.

Pathfinding

without pathfinding

- grass 100% movement
- lava 100% movement
- underground 100% movement
- dirt 100% movement
- rough 125% movement
- sand 150% movement
- snow 150 % movement
- swamp 175 % movement

with basic pathfinding

- rough 100% movement
- sand 125% movement
- snow 125% movement
- swamp 150% movement

with adv. pathfidng

- rough 100% movement
- sand 100% movement
- snow 100% movement
- swamp 125% movement

with exp pathfinding

- rough 100% movement
- sand 100% movement
- snow 100% movement
- swamp 100% movement

The above table shows how much movement points you need to make one step/take resources. So on swamp without pathfinding is 175 MP. Note that exp. pathfinding is only necessary for swamp.

Special rule when hero changes terrains

If hero stands on a swamp terrain and next 4 tiles are on rough terrain, he will have one tile swamp movement and 4 tiles rough terrain movement.

*
Heroes under Fly spell have different terrain penalty depending on their mastery of Air magic. If heroes have pathfinding skill they will not suffer terrain penalty even if they have no mastery in Air.

- no air or basic air - 140% movement
- adv. air - 120% movement
- exp. air - 100% movement

angel wings considers the hero to be under Fly spell at expert level Air magic mastery.

Last but not least, sometimes is important to calculate how many MP will the hero spend on DD and TP

- no Air/Earth or basic or advanced mastery - 300 MP
- exp Air/Earth - 200 MP

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firespirit
firespirit


Famous Hero
with warm hands
posted July 05, 2016 03:47 PM

natalka said:

terrain penalty doesn`t happen when:

- when hero is under Fly spell or has angel wings artifact (*)
- when there are nomads in the army and hero moves over sand
- all hero units are native to the current terrain
- when there are neutral and native units to the current terrain. In order to avoid terrain penalty all neutral units must be to the left of the other units.



Source? As far as I know, all creatures have to be native for the penalty to disappear. Nomads on sand seem to be the only exception.
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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted July 06, 2016 08:21 AM

Heroesportal.net

It is written in Russian. It says this is not docummented but works 100 %.

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Aionb
Aionb


Known Hero
posted July 06, 2016 08:40 AM

I think it was also mentioned and used by Rosekavalier in his Metataxer walkthrough.

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firespirit
firespirit


Famous Hero
with warm hands
posted July 06, 2016 02:58 PM

I tested this in my game (H3 Complete). Started a random map, chose Fortress with Tazar as starting hero and hired Christian from the tavern. Christian had a stack of Pikemen on the left and I gave him Fortress creatures in the other slots. Tazar only had Fortress creatures. Both heroes had the same amount of movement.

Result: Tazar moved further through the swamp and Christian took the full terrain penalty. You can easily test this yourselves.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted July 06, 2016 03:15 PM

Try units that are labelled neutrals such as enchanters in stead of e.g. castle units such as pikemen.

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firespirit
firespirit


Famous Hero
with warm hands
posted July 06, 2016 03:25 PM

Oh! It seems to work indeed! It's cool that you can still learn new things about the game after all this time.
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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted July 06, 2016 04:19 PM

There's tons of magnificent stuff on the homepage most of us barely scratch the top of. IIRC there's even a bug that will allow for infinite movement using the admiral's hat and a ship.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted July 07, 2016 08:49 AM

Yeah, neutral creatures.

Do u know the bug about tactics and positioning large units one hex further?
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