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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: The Hunger Games Map in H7
Thread: The Hunger Games Map in H7
Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted October 09, 2016 05:42 PM
Edited by Antalyan at 17:44, 07 Jan 2017.

The Hunger Games Map in H7

Discover details about my latest released map, The Hunger Games Multiplayer Scenario!

PROJECT SUMMARY
Map type: big map for multiplayer
Players: 6 humans
Concept: designed to be a very unique map with various ways to victory
Release: 06/01 2017
Download on hommdb.com OR maps4heroes.com as soon as the map is approved
UPDATE: The map is now available on maps4heroes.com

IMPORTANT INFORMATIONmaps4heroes.com[
- the map is scripted for 6 human players. No AI can be set because it is a scenario map with various events, and AI cannot deal with them
- it is recommended to play with random skilling for more fair game
- the faction choice does not matter as the factions are prescript
- you should update the game to the latest 2.21 version before playing

ABOUT THE MAP (recommended to read before playing)
The map is inspired in famous series written by Suzanne Collins. If you know them, some features might be familiar for you. However, it's not neccessary to know the original Hunger Games at all, you can still enjoy a multiplayer map which is great I hope.

Each of 6 players controls two heroes, chosen by a community poll in autumn, and two towns from different factions (representing thus all 12 disctricts). All players get several months to prepare, to build their armies & to level up their heroes (everything in the underground). During that time, players are strictly forbidden to fight each other. Before the timer expires, they have to move to the island in the middle and teleport to the arena, where the battle will take place.
As soon as the timer expires, all barriers are broken and players and heroes can start fighting, until only one winner is left. There are no towns in the arena and heroes lose their beginning towns as soon as the timer expires, also their resources & artefatcs are set to 0. Sure there are some neutral armies, resources, artefacts and neutral locations in the arena, but they can be occupied by your enemy...

The map offers various ways to win, many hidden places and mechanics you might discover only after several games, so the replayability should be great. Additionally, the map should be completely different to the rest of multiplayer maps.

HEROES
I decided to use the feedback of the rest of the community and let them/you/ decide which heroes will fight each other in arena according to the rules above.

The survey has been finished  and the most excited of you have chosen the following heroes:

Player 1
District 1 - Ella
District 2 - Fredrik

Player 2
District 3 - Darkstorm
District 4 - Reem

Player 3
District 5 - Nur
District 6 - Yrris

Player 4
District 7 - Gem
District 8 - Ludmilla

Player 5
District 9 - Christian
District 10 - Amari

Player 6
District 11 - Ciele
District 12 - Svea

FIRST SCREENSHOTS

Please realise all these screenshots are work in progress. All things may differ to the final version.








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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Tiptoe_McGuffy


Adventuring Hero
posted October 09, 2016 06:30 PM

I like the idea! This reminds me a lot of Raelag's first mission in the original Heroes V. Have you played that one? You have a month, each in a zone cut off from all other players and then you all get teleported to this tiny arena underground with nothing but a well in the middle.

I definitely like the idea of having a larger region, with creature dwellings and stuff for the arena. Now I'm thinking of Plains of Aekon from Heroes II expansion. That map might be a lot more interesting if you couldn't get out of the plains!
A well, forts, dwellings, one-way portals, destroyable/buildable paths, stat boosters, morale/mana boosters etc. and this would be a really fun arena! Maybe you could take inspiration from some of the actual arenas mentioned in the books for scenery!
The Cornucopia, especially. There could be something like big piles of gold and an artifact merchant in the center, a major neutral creature dwelling, something that everyone will want to fight over.

One major problem I'm foreseeing is that everyone will want to wait and let the other players weaken each other. (In the Raelag mission I mentioned above, that's by far the best strategy-run off to the corner and hope no one attacks you, pick off the weakened winners.) To avoid this, there should be some really strong incentives to defeat other players.
I don't have HVII so I'm not too sure of the specific mechanics, but if each player entered the arena with, say, one relic artifact (making sure it's not in the same slot as anyone else's) there would be reason to try to attack other tributes players. Or maybe scripted events, or extra level-ups when you beat someone etc.

Good luck with the map, sounds like a fun project and I hope my ideas help!
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted October 09, 2016 06:45 PM

Tiptoe_McGuffy said:
I like the idea! This reminds me a lot of Raelag's first mission in the original Heroes V. Have you played that one? You have a month, each in a zone cut off from all other players and then you all get teleported to this tiny arena underground with nothing but a well in the middle.

I definitely like the idea of having a larger region, with creature dwellings and stuff for the arena. Now I'm thinking of Plains of Aekon from Heroes II expansion. That map might be a lot more interesting if you couldn't get out of the plains!
A well, forts, dwellings, one-way portals, destroyable/buildable paths, stat boosters, morale/mana boosters etc. and this would be a really fun arena! Maybe you could take inspiration from some of the actual arenas mentioned in the books for scenery!
The Cornucopia, especially. There could be something like big piles of gold and an artifact merchant in the center, a major neutral creature dwelling, something that everyone will want to fight over.

One major problem I'm foreseeing is that everyone will want to wait and let the other players weaken each other. (In the Raelag mission I mentioned above, that's by far the best strategy-run off to the corner and hope no one attacks you, pick off the weakened winners.) To avoid this, there should be some really strong incentives to defeat other players.
I don't have HVII so I'm not too sure of the specific mechanics, but if each player entered the arena with, say, one relic artifact (making sure it's not in the same slot as anyone else's) there would be reason to try to attack other tributes players. Or maybe scripted events, or extra level-ups when you beat someone etc.

Good luck with the map, sounds like a fun project and I hope my ideas help!


I admit the Raelag's mission you speak about was one of the inspirations, too.

Thank you a lot for your ideas, that's actually one of the reasons why I have decided to reveal the concept earlier than I had originally intended, to hear some cool ideas as the ones from you.

I've already some vision of the arena general look, so as soon as I have some screenshots, I will post them here.

The worries about players waiting are probably true; to be honest, I'm aware of it as well - some bonuses when heroes win combat are an interesting suggestion I will certainly think about later.


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SoilBurn
SoilBurn


Known Hero
BurnsSoil
posted October 09, 2016 10:11 PM

If there some good incentives for defeating other players (e.g. relics, levels etc.), then I am sure you don't have to be afraid of run-and-hide strategies. Or at least this you you ensure that the ones who are going to run are bound to be only the weak ones, which would make the whole idea even more interesting (hunter/hunted type of balance).

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted October 23, 2016 07:51 PM

The post has been updated: poll results & answers for common questions.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 24, 2016 05:20 AM

IMo, extra rewards aren't even necessary.

When you defeat a enemy hero, sure, you lose troops, but you also gain their artifacts and a LOT of XP.

So from that I would reccomend the next:
- No lose artifacts from the first months (this also makes players motivated to get artifacts in the beggning of the game, and not "why bother, I will lose them anyways")

- Artifacts will be both a blessing and a trophy, as your opponents will claim you after defeating you.

In this way, you are also MORE rewarded to defeat a hero that defeated others before, but it will also be harder because of the better artifacts they will have.

Furthermore, there's nothing to fear about "hide and run": Weaker heroes will always run because they don't think they can win to begin with, reward or not; while stronger ones will be persecuting them anyways, because of the victory.
If nobody would be persecuting, what to run from? :v It's therefore impossible to say all will be running or hiding.

If anything, giving extra rewards creates this "hide and run" dynamic, as heroes victorious heroes would become more and more imbalanced, until all the remaining would always run from the "most powerfuL" hero until they are killed one by one.- That would be sort of more like a psycho killer horror movie, rather than the hunger games where they are balanced : P

XP and artifacts as default are more than good enough rewards, and will tilt the game more than enough to incite combat, specially as other players may kill "your prey" if you don't first.

Those are my thoughts.
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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
posted October 24, 2016 12:09 PM

I always liked that Raelag map, but based on what others said, yes. You want others to weaken eachother untill you meddle in the fight.

Here is another suggestion: Make 'zones' that can only be entered after killing a certain hero (so a quest, kill X for entrance). Only the winner can 'open' this room, but after that it becomes available to the others as well. Each room could have a creature generator, an artefact/stat booster or some reinforcements that will join you.


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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted October 24, 2016 05:11 PM

@Nimostar
Thanks for an interesting opinion from the other side of the "coin" of rewards. Reading your post, I can say it makes sense not to give any huge rewards for killing enemy heroes, as it could create a huge imbalance. I will have to be very cautious with these rewards, if any.

Although a map based on psycho horror movies does not seem to be a bad idea at all

As regards artefacts, I intend to allow players neither to obtain any artefacts nor to start any fight at all before they enter the arena (according to the original rules for tributes, and it also makes the whole preparation much faster).

@Markmasters
The idea with the zones sounds interesting but I'm not sure how exactly it could work: Imagine you have to choose a hero who will become the most probable target for all the others as they would receive an extra reward for killing him. Nobody would like to play him ofc. It could be also done among the players (P1 must kill P2 etc.) but it would depend on luck a lot - and that's something I definitely don't want.



Keep the ideas coming if any, they're very helpful




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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Tiptoe_McGuffy


Adventuring Hero
posted October 24, 2016 08:37 PM
Edited by Tiptoe_McGuffy at 20:38, 24 Oct 2016.

If these heroes are at approximately equal strength, picking a fight with any of them is going to come at a huge cost to your army. Against AI you can win with few/no losses and get a snowball effect going, but when was the last time you played a multiplayer match against a good human player and won the final/main battle with no losses?

Sure, artifacts and EXP are great, but I would rather be level 15 with 10 dragons than level 16 with 2.

One bad interesting idea I've had is to have heroes have very few high HP troops, e.g. 1 strong elite and 1 champion. Resurrection spells would be OP and neutral dwellings probably would be too though.

Just had an idea as I was writing this. Since each team has 2 heroes, if they start in different areas, there could be one area designed to be more fruitful—more stat boosters, dwellings etc. to produce a stronger hero/bigger starting army. So each team would have one stronger and one weaker hero.
The stronger heroes would try to hunt down the weaker ones because they can beat them without losing too much army, and the weak heroes would try to gather strength from the map/support their stronger hero.

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted October 25, 2016 06:02 PM

Tiptoe_McGuffy said:
If these heroes are at approximately equal strength, picking a fight with any of them is going to come at a huge cost to your army. Against AI you can win with few/no losses and get a snowball effect going, but when was the last time you played a multiplayer match against a good human player and won the final/main battle with no losses?

Sure, artifacts and EXP are great, but I would rather be level 15 with 10 dragons than level 16 with 2.

One bad interesting idea I've had is to have heroes have very few high HP troops, e.g. 1 strong elite and 1 champion. Resurrection spells would be OP and neutral dwellings probably would be too though.

Just had an idea as I was writing this. Since each team has 2 heroes, if they start in different areas, there could be one area designed to be more fruitful—more stat boosters, dwellings etc. to produce a stronger hero/bigger starting army. So each team would have one stronger and one weaker hero.
The stronger heroes would try to hunt down the weaker ones because they can beat them without losing too much army, and the weak heroes would try to gather strength from the map/support their stronger hero.

That's a problem I know about, it will quite difficult to balance.
If the rewards are not good enough, there is no reason to start the fight because you would become an easy target for others then.
However, if they're too good, the victorious heroes become too feared.

The idea with two areas seems interesting but it does not fit to what I have already done & thought about. The movement in the beginning area will be completely free. So you can combine armies of both factions you start with. Theoretically, town halls do not provide enough gold so you won't be able to hire all armies in your two towns, so you will have to decide and one weakes and one stronger heroes will be there. Or two balanced heroes of course, it depends on you.
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted November 21, 2016 07:20 PM

Almost one month after my latest response, there is a quick update:
- I researched AI possibilities a bit and as I have predicted, it would be extremely difficult to make this map for players controlled by AI too because AI does not recognize any other win & loss conditions than standart ones. It would be neccessary to script every single action of AI, and even then it would have some unfair advantages against player and it could never be equal to human players (I know it never really is but in classic games it can look like it is at least). So there will always be 6 human players neccessary to play this map. The bright side is it reflects the original THG better and also the feeling from the game should increase while playing against unpredictable opponents.
- Besides default adventure map buildings, also the ones from LTA and even several new ones (for scripts) should appear on the map.
- The rewards for winning the combat against each other were also a discussed topic. I decided for 50 Arcane Archers and 100 Lizardmen for now, sure only later testing shows if it needs to be changed.
-Strategy: Definitely, what I really don't want is to have a map where everything is decided in a few first turns. As in THG, there will be a Cornucopia in the middle of arena with some gold mine (the only one on the map) and dwellings. However, for those who don't want to join the first fights, there should be enough possibilities and sites to visit to have a chance against their "professional" opponents. So consequently with heroes fighting & collecting resources in the main Cornucopia zone, there should be longer-lasting fights for rewards hidden in different map corners. Sometimes you will need to reach certain hero level or visit some altars to obtain them. Generally, my aim is to provide the map with different possible strategies to win - sure only time shows if I succeed or not   I also hope the fact you control two heroes, each of them from a different faction, should enable more combinations and strategies too.
Information: Naturally, I guess you could want some more concrete information. At the current time, I can just say I have finished around 90% of scripts and 70% of map painting so I should not be much far from creating a playable version of the map, hopefully till Christmas if no major problems appear. I hope you will help me to test it then  
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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted December 13, 2016 07:40 PM

December update:
As you might have noticed, I originally planned to release this map even this year. However, as the map painting process is more time demanding than I previously expected, and as I also came up with several new ideas (like how do the feast in the arena), it's obvious now that I won't manage it on time.

So the testing version of this map should be released in very early 2017.

I wish you to enjoy the Christmas time and come back in January to see the (hopefully) finished map!

The original post has also been updated with some info & the first arena screenshot!
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lotihoti
lotihoti


Famous Hero
posted December 14, 2016 08:48 AM

nice to hear

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted January 06, 2017 08:06 PM
Edited by Antalyan at 20:08, 06 Jan 2017.

Hello Heroes,
The time has finally come and the map can be released!


After months of working with buggy (but mighty) MMH7 editor, I have finally finished my work and now its up to you to test my effort!

The map has been uploaded to maps4heroes.com and hommdb.com.
As these websites have their own way of verifying the recorded maps, the exact time of availability of the map is unknown but I expect it to by in the following hours, or days at latest
.

Check also the updated map information above!

As always, any feedback you can provide me is interesing for me, although some ideas simply cannot be realised of course.
Also if you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask me

Enjoy!
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Tiptoe_McGuffy


Adventuring Hero
posted January 07, 2017 03:28 AM

Congratulations on finishing!

...


(If I had Heroes VII I sure would try it!)

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Moritzbradtke
Moritzbradtke


Known Hero
posted January 07, 2017 02:22 PM

Yeah, congrants on finishng (: will be sure to try it on hotseat when i have some more free time

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Antalyan
Antalyan


Promising
Famous Hero
H7 Forever
posted February 04, 2017 05:24 PM

The version 2.0 is in progress:
- much faster preparation phase (you will be able to prepare your army within several minutes - one game week, perfect for players with less time, also much decreases the % chance of desync issues)
- a possibility to play against AI too (to be available for any amount (1-6) of human players)

To be released soon!
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