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| Thread: Is pity a weakness? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Homer171
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted December 02, 2016 02:35 AM |
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Poll Question:
Is pity a weakness?
Pretty easy to guess what side I stand on this one. I had some talk with my sister today and she told me something disturbing. Now answer the poll the way you feel about: pity. I say what we discussed with my sister but don't let that alone affect your opinion: Do you think pity is a weakness?
Now, my sister has two childrens and she has gone visiting some professional help for parenting and consulting the various aspect of parenhood etc as she is single mom and all, things can get quite heckting so any help is welcomed. Firstly this lady said to my sister that she is way too kind and nice to everyone, the number one person that you should think in your life is yourself, second comes the kids. My sister said, well that's how she has allways been. If I see homeless person, I feel bad for them. The educated advisor rolled her eyes and said: Pity is for the weak, infact it's a sickness. Only thing you should care of is yourself and your family.
Then the conversation went to my sister relationship. She is married still but for now they live separetly, may someday go back together. The councelor started plaiming marriage as "unhealthy" union, with too little space for woman. She herself has been 20 years with the same man and would never marry him, even tough he has proposed twice in that time. Lady said: That's because I want keep all options available, I could not be more satisfied in my life.
I don't care to continue what other feminist nonsense this woman "adviced" to my sister but I just wondered how can person with such values ever gotten marriage and parenthood counsil! It does not mather what some might thing but as counsil "expert" on the subject could dream a bit classical aproach on this mather. We are living strange times as "old time" morales, values, norms are somewhat considered old fasioned and out dated. I mean, how can selfcentered view of life be any good? And all this is professional view, this is how we make our world better place. Yes, I can't express how much this rubs me in the wrong direction.
What you think?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 02, 2016 02:39 AM |
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Blizzardman
Known Hero
Gay as an Easter Basket
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posted December 02, 2016 02:43 AM |
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Being mentally/emotionally disturbed isn't any less common for people that majored in psychology than for any other profession. Some people are attracted to the profession specifically because they are imbalanced (albeit they would often drop out).
So to the question, "How did this moron end up a counselor" isn't much different from asking, "How did this moron end up a chef/engineer/teacher/lumberjack/sales agent". Because they got a degree at X institution and then they got X job, and they behaved themselves during their interview.
I wouldn't overthink it. There are great employees, good employees, average employees, and then there are bags of weight, and you will find this variety in any trade or discipline.
And yes, this counselor's advice has the textbook flavor of sociopathy/narcissism. Maybe she thinks she's being hip/creative. Maybe she was repetively belittled by a male relative when she was young and has unresolved frustration that is undiagnosed (these childhood experiences are a common scenario with angry feminists, or on the flip side a lot of adult misogynists had a toxic relationship with their mother. This misogyny could be among men or women: having a negative bias towards members of your own sex isn't such a rare thing) Who knows.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted December 02, 2016 04:59 AM |
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I believe pitying something denotes self-awareness, in a greater level than being self-centered. Pity is much akin to empathy, a social relationship, many times pacifist. I don't see that as a weakness. On the other hand, people who knows one inclination for being like that may use that for their own gains. That alone still doesn't make it a weakness, because people can exploit basically any sort of emotion, the good and the bad. But given I consider us social beings, those emotions that usually bind us together feel much more like strengths than weaknesses.
That's my view on this subject.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 02, 2016 06:23 AM |
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Love is a weakness.
- Lolth, goddess of the drow.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 02, 2016 06:34 AM |
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nothing wrong with feeling pity. it's when pity is felt for something that people do that is self-inflicted, is when it is unnecessary or even harmful, imo. like say, if someone who is addicted to drugs or alcohol, and loses everything and becomes homeless, i don't think they should be pitied at all. or when someone loses access to their family because they were abusive. or when someone kills themselves by doing something stupid, like drunk driving or playing with guns, arrows, or heights. i could care less about stupid people or pricks, and i think more of them should die. stupid people and pricks are the bane of not only human existence, but all existence. like people who think it's funny to set animals on fire, or to find enjoyment in watching bullfighting/dogfighting/cockfighting, or going to the circus to watch the animals that were "conditioned" into performing tricks.
in those cases, i pity the people, and everything else, that the stupid snows put through hell. but then, i only pity them so much, because i feel they rightly should have killed those who put them through hell. no one or no thing should ever have to put up with that kind of stupidity or snowry.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 02, 2016 07:34 AM |
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Your sister went to the wrong "advisor", the pity stuff is pretty irrelevant. It's obvious that this psychologist or whatever she's called is completely, even dangerously unprofessional so instead of digging into topics like pity, relationships, self-significance and so on, your sister should first and foremost stop paying for crap "advises" and if necessary, talk to a level-headed person. I'm pretty sure you can offer her much better help than such "professionals". If anything she won't fall into the trap of thinking that when someone has a diploma (if she even does) and gets paid big money to talk to other people, he/she certainly speaks true.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted December 02, 2016 07:51 AM |
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Pity is not a "weakness" but it can be destructive towards yourself or others if "followed". For example, if you see a homeless person and you instantly connect that person with being unfortunate, then your pity blinds you with your own emotions. You do not after all know if that person is homeless by pure accident (eg a tornade blew down the house of said person) or if it is self inflicted (eg drinking/drugs).
Pity is like someone said sometimes a good way to distance yourself from your own sphere, but it can also slip emotions and guilt into you for something you have no responsibility for and cause you to make dumb, bad decisions.
I think a reason for a lot of the problems today (eg with immigration) comes due to the fact that pity has been allowed to run rampant. There is after all a reason for the proverb "The road to hell are paved with good intentions".
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 02, 2016 08:23 AM |
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It's neither nor - it's simply a feeling that results from the human ability to put yourself in another person's shoes.
It's also an important feeling, it would seem, since certain kinds of psychopaths are the way they are because they are unable to put themselves into other people's shoes and therefore are not able to feel pity.
The question is how the rest are affected by this feeling, and here the level of reality plays a role. Seeing on the telly how people got hit by a disaster on the other end of the world is one thing - seeing a guy without legs sitting in the cold in some wind-protected corner with a lone coffee cup and a few coppers in it quite another.
We aren't slaves of our feelings, though. Feeling pity is one thing, acting on it quite another; after all, you cannot "make things right" for everyone you may feel pity for.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 02, 2016 08:24 AM |
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Edited by artu at 10:11, 02 Dec 2016.
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No. To be very direct about the "weakness" part, almost all mammals with high intelligence, living as social groups are capable of some level of empathy. Rather than a weakness, it's an evolutionary advantage, that's why it stuck around with so many species. Of course, being capable of abstraction, we carry empathy to a different level, we can feel sad for even a fictional character.
Like any other emotion, pity/empathy can be out of proportion in an unhealthy way. Fear is protective, but if you fear everyone, it is paranoia. Most people who are too nice to everybody no matter what, are usually like that because they have self-esteem issues and they want to be liked by everyone all the time in an unhealthy manner or they are not straightforward people who are way too political in a sinister fashion.
About the "marriage sucks" part. I don't think it's part of a psychiatrist's job to impose their life-style choices to their patients but rather guide them in achieving the choices the individuals make for themselves. So, saying something either like "marriage is an unhealthy institution" or "everybody should marry and build a family to be happy" are way off limits. If there is a specific situation, in which the patient is having doubts, the counselor may say something like "maybe, you shouldn't rush things, take it slow, are you sure that's what you want in life at this moment" etc. But criticizing the institution of marriage itself is out of place when done in therapy. That being said, it is not necessarily feminism. The actual feminist argument would be that "how come when a man talks against marriage, it is not associated with machoism or anything related to his gender but when a woman does, it is automatically labeled as feminism." Although, in this case, her reasons for speaking against marriage seem to be ideological indeed, which is the problem, since it's therapy, not a seminar.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted December 02, 2016 08:45 AM |
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Edited by phe at 08:55, 02 Dec 2016.
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Hang the councelor!!! I met something similar in Poland in kindergarten's tiny psycologist advising my wife to not have more children... It is highly unprofessional and malignant...dick morality...they should be sued but only justice in such cases is gallows...
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 02, 2016 09:11 AM |
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That's not the same, if she's feeling overwhelmed by the idea of having more children or if she expressed in session, life is as tiresome as it is, it can indeed be good and legit advice not to have any more. It doesnt make her advise unprofessional just because you want more children.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted December 02, 2016 09:33 AM |
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Edited by phe at 09:38, 02 Dec 2016.
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artu said:
That's not the same, if she's feeling overwhelmed by the idea of having more children or if she expressed in session, life is as tiresome as it is, it can indeed be good and legit advice not to have any more. It doesnt make her advise unprofessional just because you want more children.
it had in common with my wife attitude towards it...my wife was disgusted too... just because of one kid's little troubles silly psycologist make a concept which can destroy family's life and happy life of children...now we had second kid, a 2 years old daughter, very cheerful and quite smart and nothing supports psycologist's view...must have been just all I mentioned before...
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markmasters
Famous Hero
Dragon of justice
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posted December 02, 2016 01:54 PM |
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Urgh, I gave my vote before reading your story, I want to revise from 'weakness' to virtue.
However it depends on the situation, feeling empathy for others is not a weakness, it is needed in a lot of species for them to survive (altruism). I think without pity the human race would have been wiped out for a large portion, that counselor is a horrible person, let your sister refuse to pay her for the counseling and if she complains just answer with 'I don't pity you'. 
In other cases pity can be a virtue or weakness. For me it's a weakness, like I'm winning a game and i feel sorry for the opponent and start playing worse and sometimes lose because of that.
I don't think there is a defenitive answer....I think your poll needs a 'bit of both' option
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Blizzardman
Known Hero
Gay as an Easter Basket
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posted December 03, 2016 12:41 AM |
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SAVE YOUR PITY FOR THE WEAK!
Okay I feel better now. Just had to get that out. Please continue.
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tSar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted December 03, 2016 02:43 AM |
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It's the similar advice I got from my school counselor, less extreme and draconic sounding though. General gist of it is you gotta take care of number one first and foremost before family. Never took it to heart was there for my family multiple times when they needed me and I took the mantle even though I am not even the eldest when nobody else would. Did I do it for anyone else though? Not really my ideals are part of my identity to uphold them is to uphold my own interests so if you look at it like that charity/pitty and kindness are actually selfish acts (just because you're selfish doesn't discount your kindness in the least). And that is perfectly fine!
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2016 06:55 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 10:00, 03 Dec 2016.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2016 03:36 PM |
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Stevie said:
So even selflessness is selfish because it makes you feel better about yourself. Think I heard that reasoning before, likely in some anime.
it's true. it's because it makes you feel good, and sometimes, better than others. because you're doing something FOR other people. kind of a catch-22. i wonder if mother theresa ever had to fight her own ego with that. 
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 03, 2016 04:16 PM |
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Edited by artu at 16:17, 03 Dec 2016.
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It's a very old concept actually. Even in Enlightenment Era Europe, virtue is still mostly associated with duty or utility, that's mostly the heritage of Christian theology where you are born with an original sin and have to follow virtue despite your innerself (desires). If you go way back though, for example in Ancient Greece, being virtuous and being happy were almost always considered interlinked, sometimes to the point where they were the same. According to Kant, not killing a man despite an irresistable desire to do so is the ultimate moral behavior, the bigger the restraint, the bigger the will power, where as to Aristotales, the moral state is when you would not desire such a thing to begin with, you improve your mind itself, not your behavior.
Eudaimonia
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted December 03, 2016 05:39 PM |
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fred79 said:
i wonder if mother theresa ever had to fight her own ego with that.
Good question. Since she would dress-down anyone including the Pope, I I'm sure she had her issues too...people do...including me. When we are in a spiritual battle we sometimes strike (swords of words) a bystander that we didn't see.
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