|
| Thread: Why the Constitution is the Solution |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
posted January 16, 2017 05:48 PM |
|
|
Why the Constitution is the Solution
As I have lived, I have found that generally "legal-jargon" (the endlessly growing language surrounding expanding laws and loss of freedoms) is seldom simple words addressing a correction or other new need regarding a LAW but merely a complicated strategy to fog comprehension of the "We the people" of often hidden-purpose or greedy-gain. i.e. A million word "Terms of Acceptance in legal-jargon" is the most effective way to hand some entity your freedom of privacy for the free-whatever-BS accepted by each individual. Now imagine that not happening for an app or site but instead with the powers that govern your entire life?
Furthermore, as the Professor points out, huge mistakes have been made because we have had those in power not understand the basic groundwork of the Constitution and un-intentionally do far more harm than the intended good. I'll add...providing we yet have such innocent changes & out-comes. 
If you are an American, you need to invest the 90 minutes and listen to this very effective (but simple) educational explanation. Even if you live somewhere else, fully understanding what SHOULD be the rights and power of a Nation's citizens...<imvho> is still very important.
Why the Constitution is the Solution
JBS
____________
"Do your own research"
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 06:08 PM |
|
|
John Birch Society? Really Marrkur? I know these guys from the Bob Dylan song, they opposed the civil right movement in the 60's because they were convinced it was a communist plot! Wikipedia says even the American Conservative Union board voted not to invite them to their conferences, they are like the far-right of the far-right. And you suggest to spend 90 minutes to learn about freedom and our rights from them?
I'll check it out just out of curiosity when I'm convenient but I hardly expect anything "educative" coming from these guys.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 08:44 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 20:50, 16 Jan 2017.
|
artu said:
And you suggest to spend 90 minutes to learn about freedom and our rights from them?
I'll check it out just out of curiosity when I'm convenient but I hardly expect anything "educative" coming from these guys.
Goodness Artu how so in-the-know you are about this Nation.
Yes, I would suggest you listen w/o bias to someone that knows far more than you do about the workings of our Constitution. It is not rocket-science and he breaks things down very well and shows the fabrications in creating modern-day loopholes by present strategies that have nothing to do with We the People by purposed isolated debate, by Groups that were not elected by State-representation into Congressional vote.
Fyi, since you know so much; have you not already learned how Multi-National-Corporations have taken huge power in nearly all nations? I cannot speak about your nation...you live there...you should have some idea of what is going on but I do know what has happened here. The man even speaks to mis-direction regarding Law but I suppose you do not think that fact merits the discussion either. Dylan, good grief I heard & enjoyed the man's stuff as it came out in the 60s but I am not interested in looking at anything thru "starry-eyes" anymore.
However, I never expect you to agree to much of anything I place value. But one thing you should consider and it is not my opinion but fact; the sitting U.S. President has powers he/she was never meant to hold. Fact. The sitting U.S. President can "presently" take this nation to war which by the Constitution could only happen by Congress "after" going through State-Legislators in the House of Reps...THEN on to a Congressional vote.
Much worse... in 1989 the President of these United States was granted an exclusion regarding "Conflict of Interests" where he could "do business around the globe" without ANY oversight whatsoever. So today, unless that is stopped, the Oval Office can provide un-imaginable riches. (think Clinton Foundation) So let's think "Acquisitions + Drones"...sound good to you?
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 09:01 PM |
|
Edited by artu at 02:29, 17 Jan 2017.
|
You're mixing apples and oranges here, I don't have to be an American to know what John Birch Society is, just like you don't have to be a German to now what Nazis are or an Arab to know what ISIS is. And I'm sure back in the 30's Nazis had some criticism about Germany's state which was in the end, accurate here or there. I still wouldn't promote them. People who opposed a movement in which minorities marched for their right to vote, their right to go to same schools, pretty basic stuff... And they sabotaged it by calling it communist propaganda.
I understand you value your Constitution and unlike what you think, this is one of the subjects I agree with you. But promoting such people only because you agree with them here and there about some violations of the Constitution is missing the bigger picture.
Also, not every user who's not an American here is as curious as me and not a Dylan fan, most may not have heard of what JBS is, so I think they should know who they are listening to.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 09:37 PM |
|
|
I would personally look out for taking seriously anything from a source that has a very notorious track record or are considered to be agents of regression like the Breitbart, the John Birch Society, the KKK, Stormfront or such,
basically posting thinkpiece from a source known for being full of extremist content is a means of telegraphing one is overly sympathetic to or associates themself with their views in general,
if something makes sense it will likely be repeated by a source who is more nonpartisan, generally rational or credible and isn't basically an echo chamber of extremist propaganda or fake news lol
giving a sarcastic answer that one is such a know-it-all or that one can't understand if they're not an American doesn't nullify the point IMO lol
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 10:09 PM |
|
|
verriker said:
if something makes sense it will likely be repeated by a source who is more nonpartisan, generally rational or credible and isn't basically an echo chamber of extremist propaganda or fake news lol
Who? CNN or BBC? Please name a nonpartisan source, so I can understand what you define as.
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 10:17 PM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
Who? CNN or BBC? Please name a nonpartisan source, so I can understand what you define as.
I will not name a nonpartisan source because there is actually no such thing, but it is fair to say some sources are more nonpartisan or partisan than others (for instance one would not expect a logical or rational viewpoint on race relations from the the KKK or the Nazis because they have a highly biased and emotive opinion on that topic) lol
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 10:21 PM |
|
|
|
No one would suggest that the nazis or the KKK could have an educative point to listen to, but when you compare Breitbart to KKK or nazis, it basically shows you throw all you disagree with in same box, preferably the worst one because is easier that way. Seriously, can you give a single solid argument that Breitbart are racist sociopaths?
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 10:39 PM |
|
|
hey, even from the wrong sources, you can gain insight. i know nothing whatsoever of their history, and i don't really care. what's important is what they're pointing out.
i'll watch the vid later markkur, as i need to get some sleep.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 10:45 PM |
|
|
fred said:
hey, even from the wrong sources, you can gain insight
IF they remain objective at least about the facts. When it's the extreme right, cherry-picking, semi-facts, disinformation, twisting history is something I'd expect by default, though. And if you're not an expert on the subject, you won't know what to filter. Wrong or inaccurate information can be worse than no information at all.
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 10:52 PM |
|
|
|
who gets all their information from one source, tho? i certainly don't. i listen to everything, especially the wrong sources. propaganda is easy to see, and it'll tell a bigger picture of what's behind the information anyone's presenting.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 10:55 PM |
|
|
Yes, using as many sources as possible is the best remedy.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 11:15 PM |
|
Edited by verriker at 23:16, 16 Jan 2017.
|
Salamandre said:
No one would suggest that the nazis or the KKK could have an educative point to listen to
actually I think many people would, such as the neo Nazis and the current incarnation of the KKK lol
Salamandre said:
but when you compare Breitbart to KKK or nazis, it basically shows you throw all you disagree with in same box, preferably the worst one because is easier that way.
I agree it is very easy because it is good for purposes of illustration to give an example of some conservative sources which have a notorious or polarising reputation and are very partisan,
it is not to equate these sources on the same level as one another but merely to give relatable examples of other extremist conservative or ultranationalist sources such as the John Birch Society under discussion lol
one could just as easily mention The Morning Star, Malcolm X, Communist Party or other examples of partisan sources with strong viewpoints on various issues, but it is not as relevant to the point at hand lol
Salamandre said:
Seriously, can you give a single solid argument that Breitbart are racist sociopaths?
perhaps I could, but I have no real desire to give a single solid argument to the effect that they are racist sociopaths because I have not said that they are racist sociopaths lol
____________
|
|
Minion
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted January 16, 2017 11:40 PM |
|
|
Breitbart is what almost constitutes as fake news. There was a "news" just last week in Breitbart that a 1000-man mob chanted Alluh Achbar and burned a church at New Years eve, when no such thing occurred. Seriously one should NEVER trust once source on anything, unless you love being guided by publications with an agenda.
____________
"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted January 17, 2017 05:40 AM |
|
|
verriker said:
The Morning Star
and now i'm further intrigued. "morning star", as in lucifer?
i'm not googling anything, hc is where i get all my info.
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 17, 2017 09:15 AM |
|
|
verriker said:
I will not name a nonpartisan source because there is actually no such thing, but it is fair to say some sources are more nonpartisan or partisan than others
I recall you claiming that Brexit will represent a major recession for Britain economy. So you obviously read some sources, in order to claim what no one can know or predict for now. Unless you have some crystal ball and saw all that by your own.
verriker said:
perhaps I could, but I have no real desire to give a single solid argument to the effect that they are racist sociopaths because I have not said that they are racist sociopaths lol
Its you who made a list containing KKK and Breitbart together, then further mentioned the nazis. In serious language this is called creating propinquity. It's same as saying "people as Verriker and Jack the Ripper incarnate such things etc". KKK hanged black people and fights for a homogeneous white society. Nazis gazed millions of jews then additionally killed tens of millions of people. This is being called racist and sociopath, among many other adjectives. How Breitbart, in your views, compare or is similar to that?
Minion said:
Breitbart is what almost constitutes as fake news. There was a "news" just last week in Breitbart that a 1000-man mob chanted Alluh Achbar and burned a church at New Years eve, when no such thing occurred. Seriously one should NEVER trust once source on anything, unless you love being guided by publications with an agenda.
I don't read Breitbart, but sometimes I enjoy listening their super troll, Millo. He is very smart and fun to watch. Here you give an example which I don't know if is true or not -seems not, but logically I would lean to think is true, given that the last time that really happened, in Cologne, the counter part, CNN and BBC didn't investigate and basically hide all news about, during 6 months or so. If we were to put together the list of lies and omissions Breitbart does and compare to BBC or CNN, there will be no match. Nothing but recently, CNN tried to present the torture of a white man by 4 blacks anti Trump as the opposite, saying the "nigg**" word and "Trump" were pronounced and omitting all real details.
artu said:
IF they remain objective at least about the facts. When it's the extreme right, cherry-picking, semi-facts, disinformation, twisting history is something I'd expect by default, though.
Very comfortable because is you who define what right wing means, true? Let's not mention that in tons of countries, France for example, most people don't talk one word on english, so they only have access to major National medias. Which, in their totality, gave inaccurate details about Trump for about 9 months, cutting his speeches and taking out what they wanted; which for 1 year now flow us with low level propaganda about Syria and the Al Qaeda/Al Nosra "rebels", at the point that today a majority of french hate russians because they bomb "democrat people fighting for freedom"; I could add this all the fake news about the refugees, the constant pouring of boiling water on the racial issues, etc etc.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted January 17, 2017 10:34 AM |
|
Edited by verriker at 10:36, 17 Jan 2017.
|
Salamandre said:
I recall you claiming that Brexit will represent a major recession for Britain economy. So you obviously read some sources, in order to claim what no one can know or predict for now. Unless you have some crystal ball and saw all that by your own.
what does that have to do with the price of tea in Romania chum, I am not trying to claim that I myself am an impartial source on the topic of the Brexit lol,
actually I am very partisan about that because it gives me another chance to get Scottish Freedooooom from the Sasenachs after ten thousand years of oppression under Margaret Thatcher, hoots mon and wee bairn and all that lol
however if I would come in and post an earnest opinion piece to try and sway you one way or another about the Brexit I would not really throw one lone link to just Farage or just Cameron or just a Murdoch paper or just a fascist commentator for instance,
if I were to convince a neutral person it would need to have a basis in a gestalt of different sources from various news agencies and commentators with a credible track record, and any opinions or speculation used would have to be reasonable/verifiable and not just be easily dismissed bollocks or highly biased fake news (such as the notorious 350 million pounds a week we send to the EU which could be sent to the NHS which we actually don't send to the EU and doesn't actually exist) lol
salamandre said:
Its you who made a list containing KKK and Breitbart together, then further mentioned the nazis. In serious language this is called creating propinquity. It's same as saying "people as Verriker and Jack the Ripper incarnate such things etc". KKK hanged black people and fights for a homogeneous white society. Nazis gazed millions of jews then additionally killed tens of millions of people. This is being called racist and sociopath, among many other adjectives. How Breitbart, in your views, compare or is similar to that?
one can see what narrative they want to see mate but in sincere argumentation one cannot take another to task for something they didn't actually say, that is what's known as a strawman or putting words in one's mouth lol
if I was contending Breitbart or its contributors have a reputation of being racist sociopaths I would defend that claim, however this doesn't exist in this discussion so please refer to previous post lol
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted January 17, 2017 11:30 AM |
|
|
verriker said:
(such as the notorious 350 million pounds a week we send to the EU which could be sent to the NHS which we actually don't send to the EU and doesn't actually exist)
Hopefully people have that unique argument to dismiss at once tons of other content. It is certainly a good matching argument against the promises from EU bureaucrats for a better economy, which leads to 150 suicides yearly among our farmers, due to unfair concurrence. Talking about lies on both sides helps.
verriker said:
one can see what narrative they want to see mate
I see nothing but you on purpose using in same phrase KKK and Breitbart. There are words, then there is the context. Then there is the old and safe list of empty slogans which, out of real context, will glue into another meaning and this is how we create propaganda. Personally I pay attention when I use criminal organizations examples and who I put nearby because I don't like trivializing criminals.
|
|
artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
|
|
posted January 17, 2017 11:52 AM |
|
|
Salamandre said:
artu said:
IF they remain objective at least about the facts. When it's the extreme right, cherry-picking, semi-facts, disinformation, twisting history is something I'd expect by default, though.
Very comfortable because is you who define what right wing means, true?
No, actually. If a political movement is extremist, there is usually a reasonable consensus from both right-wing and left-wing spectrum about them being extremists. Usually, it's only the people who are marginalized and reactionary beyond reason who fail to categorize such radical movements, and they are the potential new members anyway.
Of course, if what you mean is that some political movements are radicalized by the status quo using propoganda techniques even though they are not that radical in reality, there are cases that would fit. But I don't think that's the case with John Birch Society or with most of the extremist organizations in general.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted January 17, 2017 12:30 PM |
|
Edited by verriker at 12:31, 17 Jan 2017.
|
Salamandre said:
Talking about lies on both sides helps.
actually the whole "both sides" argument of two wrongs must make a right you are invoking is so widely derided in proper debate as a bad practice and bad deflection technique on many levels, there are so many terms and variations of this logical fallacy that I wouldn't even start to list them all but basically you can check out the appeal to moderation or the false balance fallacy lol
the gist of it in practice is basically you can talk about whatever you want in all of time and space until you are blue in the face and the cows come home, but if someone claims there is 350 million a week to give the NHS or the EU which can be reliably proven to not exist then it is fake news and remains a valid point against whoever endorses that claim no matter what, that must be accepted and accounted for if someone is reasonable lol
even if you were able to use reliable evidence to prove that promises by some EU bureaucrats are the cause to 150 farmer suicides, it would be a case against EU bureaucrats, but still wouldn't work to somehow dismiss, counter, wipe out or nullify a lie or fake news that there is no 350 million for the NHS or EU,
you basically could weigh up the overall merits of one "side"'s case or another in an argument by accounting for all points, but you can only actually dismiss a point by looking at evidence that it itself is valid or invalid, not by bringing up a different point that is completely unrelated lol
Salamandre said:
I see nothing but you on purpose using in same phrase KKK and Breitbart.
if that is true then it is futile to discuss further because you must be so blinded by your affinity for Breitbart (or the views you think/assume Breitbart espouses, since you have admitted to not actually reading Breitbart) that your basic reading comprehension of posts invoking it goes straight out the window lol
____________
|
| |
|
|
