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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: 8-bit art - a random video
Thread: 8-bit art - a random video
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 27, 2017 07:23 PM

8-bit art - a random video

I randomly came across this video on youtube:

Some guy talks about 8 bit art

I haven't seen the whole thing, but in the first 10 minutes or so, he has some interesting thoughts about the balance between creativity vs. technological possibilities, which I think is interesting in the light of some of the things often discussed with regards to Heroes 2-3-4-5-6-7.

So, while there's nothing directly Heroes related here, I'll post the link for anyone who might be interested.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted January 27, 2017 10:30 PM
Edited by dredknight at 22:31, 27 Jan 2017.

@Alciblades, this one is straight gold. What got me is the idea to use a tool or an idea and take it to perfection instead of just switching between half finished stuff.

I really get you at the abstract concept that regards what Might and Magic franchise could have become if it kept its core presentation design and just tried to take the gameplay further.

It is funny that this is what the modders out here do with all those forsaken Might and Magic releases whose owners leave behind like a stray dog.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted January 28, 2017 01:02 AM

That looks kinda amazing, to be honest. The magic he's made with simple tools is quite awesome.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 28, 2017 05:29 AM
Edited by Stevie at 05:31, 28 Jan 2017.

I devoured the video and went searching, found this:

http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/

This is not only amazing, this is mind-boggling, stupefying, and also ridiculous and completely revolting. Just HOW is it possible that I feel more Might & Magic fantasy emanating from this random guy's 8-bit art than from the entire artistic direction of the franchise for the past decade? HOW is it that just by browsing his art accompanied by ambient sounds I was able to get immersed in such a compelling atmosphere and even imagine townscreens and factions? What does that say about the current state of the Might & Magic universe?

Alcibiades, I am really grateful that you had the presence of mind to share this with the community, but I don't think the title of the thread does it justice. It should've sounded more like "The future that Heroes never had".
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 28, 2017 10:45 AM

Feel free to change the title of the topic if someone wants.

I agree, many of the images he did has the perfect magical feeling of Heroes 2. I really like the point he makes about low-resolution artwork forcing you to think about every single pixel you place. We see that clearly by comparing Heroes 2 townscreens to Heroes 6/7 townscreens. In the former, there is a very evident plan with every single part, and every part is made very distinct from the other parts because there is only limited space to make details. This is completely gone in Heroes 7 townscreens. The individual elements are highly detailed and look great on their own, but when you see the big picture, all the details are lost and the whole thing just comes across as a mess.

In terms of the future of Heroes, I think the kick-starter project this guy is involved in, where they are making a game "that doesn't look and play like the games back then did, but looks and plays like people remember games back then did" - I think that's a very exact way to describe what the Heroes franchise needs. Not an exact replica, but something that's made with love for and intend to recreate the magic of the old games.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted January 28, 2017 11:15 AM
Edited by dredknight at 11:15, 28 Jan 2017.

Another example for a seemingly restricted and rugged tool is the Ruby Shoes 3 Framework. It gives you small assortment of commands to do quick-make a gui but with some witz you can make some great things with it!

The designer of the framework @why_ idea was to make a framework that idea is to teach people of coding through the means of art. Even the guide he made is story/art line driven instead of the usual factological thing.
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted January 28, 2017 07:42 PM
Edited by Stevie at 19:45, 28 Jan 2017.

alcibiades said:
In terms of the future of Heroes, I think the kick-starter project this guy is involved in, where they are making a game "that doesn't look and play like the games back then did, but looks and plays like people remember games back then did" - I think that's a very exact way to describe what the Heroes franchise needs. Not an exact replica, but something that's made with love for and intend to recreate the magic of the old games.


I'm afraid that's impossible to ask from an industry that gets pulled farther and farther away from that. Unless retro styles make a big comeback, I doubt it. What if instead of that, one can try to summarize the best points of such an art style and incorporate them with the new technologies? For example, I can see that the this art has a dimension of granulation given by the pixels, which comes as opposed to the plasticity of modern styles. Maybe such points can be extracted and reassembled as a new art direction for Heroes.
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olorin
olorin


Adventuring Hero
tophatchild.blogspot.com
posted January 28, 2017 08:20 PM

Stevie said:
I devoured the video and went searching, found this:

http://www.effectgames.com/demos/canvascycle/


Mind-blowing.

Yeah, I hope someone, someday realize that an optimal Heroes must display this beautifully handcrafted graphical engine. As for the time being, I'm confident in these guys: http://heroes2.forumactif.com

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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 28, 2017 11:43 PM

Stevie said:
alcibiades said:
In terms of the future of Heroes, I think the kick-starter project this guy is involved in, where they are making a game "that doesn't look and play like the games back then did, but looks and plays like people remember games back then did" - I think that's a very exact way to describe what the Heroes franchise needs. Not an exact replica, but something that's made with love for and intend to recreate the magic of the old games.


I'm afraid that's impossible to ask from an industry that gets pulled farther and farther away from that.


I agree with that. While I do see at least a theoretical possibility of a good Heroes game coming from the main industry, a Heroes game like the one I talked about above would have to come from niche sources - for instance, crowdfunding plus dedicated none-label producers. And the chance for that happening is even more remote.

I see fan projects to re-create old games popping up every now and then, but the problem with these projects are normally that they don't have the technical and creative expertise to make something that actually scales to the magic of the old games back then. What I mean by this is that most of these indie-games may play great, but they usually look very unprofessional, while the point with the project this guy talks about is that it actually looks professional but mimicking the old style.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted January 29, 2017 01:51 PM
Edited by dredknight at 17:46, 29 Jan 2017.

alcibiades said:

I see fan projects to re-create old games popping up every now and then, but the problem with these projects are normally that they don't have the technical and creative expertise to make something that actually scales to the magic of the old games back then. What I mean by this is that most of these indie-games may play great, but they usually look very unprofessional, while the point with the project this guy talks about is that it actually looks professional but mimicking the old style.


What about HoTa and MMH5.5? Their releases are both quality work.

Also when we speak about quality in games it is usually (depends on the game) correlated with quantity of developers. When talking about games like M&M Heroes, these are the kind of game that require a lot of work so even if one person decides to mod it and has supreme skills he just cant handle the whole work alone (or with 2 or with 3 people more).

For example, I dont know how many people contribute to Hota but when you see the full credits of MMH55 there are probably 20 people's work that in one or another way has been merged in (Trivia note: there is even a contribution from you ).

Lets take the things from another perspective.  Lets assume that somehow we manage to gather 30 people to work on a mod or a game. Who will be the leader? How will the work be distributed? Are there going to be deadlines?

It is very hard to answer such questions when tasks and time are not directly correlated with money because what you get in return for your work is just the satisfaction of creating and not everyone are willing to sacrifice their time/money (not to mention that we have just stepped in the 4th industrial revolution and employment disruption becomes more and more of a problem but that is a talk for a different thread).

What my gut tells me regarding the M&M franchise is that the best that can happen to it will be made by the community. One of the major reasons for it is that the more you put in to a might and magic game, the more complicated it becomes to balance which increase the amount of work and testing exponentially and this is not lucrative for companies to tackle (Ubisoft?).

On the other hand here in the community we have infinite resources.
- first and foremost we have infinite QA team (everyone is playing).
- there are jacks of all trades here. Developers, sys admins, HRs, Marketing experts.

What we need is proper organization and willingness for contribution.
Just some examples from since H55 mod got going, the RC8b version has 4000+ downloads and we have constant feedback comming from the players.
From here and there people has appeared with willingness to contribute.For example this is how we got an excellent designer in the face of @theGryphn. I can continue with more examples but I believe you get the point.
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted January 29, 2017 05:50 PM

HOTA and H5.5 are both great projects, but they are mods, not new games build from the ground. So that's something else than what I was talking about above.

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dredknight
dredknight


Supreme Hero
posted January 29, 2017 09:45 PM

here is another approach. A bit more entertaining this time - the philosophical one.

A successful salesman know what people need. This is why his bargains are always good and people look for him.

Now take a look the other side of the coin.

If there is something that is desired by a group of people and there is no one to sell it to them, the bigger that group of people becomes the greater the chance that someone from the group will become the salesman a.k.a. the modder, the indie developer etc..

So as weird as it may sound - Dont stop complaining and may be the magic will happen.
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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted January 30, 2017 10:56 AM

thank you so much for sharing this!!

mr. ferrari's work has been an inspiration to me forever!
i was even a pixel pusher myself in another life
@stevie: this guy is not random, mr. ferrari is one of the most influential artists in videogames.
after watching the vid i have a much deeper appreciation of his brilliance.

heres a link to his work with the time of day slider on the left: http://www.effectgames.com/demos/worlds/
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