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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: New presets for Duel Mode and Duel 3x3 mode for Might & Magic Heroes 5.5
Thread: New presets for Duel Mode and Duel 3x3 mode for Might & Magic Heroes 5.5 This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted May 05, 2017 04:52 AM bonus applied by Galaad on 03 Aug 2017.
Edited by Skeggy at 05:11, 27 Sep 2017.

New presets for Duel Mode and Duel 3x3 mode for Might & Magic Heroes 5.5

This is unofficial mod for Might & Magic Heroes 5.5

To install the mod, put just one pak file, either
new-duel-presets-with-luck-10x-for-MMH55.pak
or
new-duel-presets-without-luck-10x-for-MMH55.pak
from
new-duel-presets-5-for-MMH55.zip in HoMM5data folder, and, of course, donít forget to remove old duel presets pak files from HoMM5data folder if you perhaps already installed older versions of this mod.

10x stands for 10-times full castle creature production but real numbers are as follows:
15x for tier 1-3, 12x for tier 4-5, 10x for tier 6-7.

NEW UPLOAD (updated with new spell configuration: arcane armor in light magic, puppet master in summoning magic and teleportation in dark magic)
Only list of available spells in heroís configurations were modified accordingly, there was no any kind of modification of actual spells.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ku3a473080cr4au/new-duel-presets-5-for-MMH55.zip



To download Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5, visit this link:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/might-magic-heroes-55/downloads

To compare spells and effects, visit this link:
https://www.facebook.com/mightandmagicheroes5.5/

There are two main intentions of this mod; first is to address the issue of quick presentation of all main factions and classes of Might & Magic Heroes 5.5, and the second one is to repair somewhat defunct Duel Mode and Duel 3x3 mode.

Some heroes are changed, but they all have their big and small icons.

Files in this zip file:
new-duel-presets-with-luck-10x-for-MMH55.pak
new-duel-presets-without-luck-10x-for-MMH55.pak
new-duel-presets-5-for-MMH55.pdf

To access Duel Mode and Duel 3x3 mode, start Might & Magic Heroes 5.5, choose Multiplayer followed by Hot Seat option.

To create Duel Mode or Duel 3x3 mode over local network, choose Multiplayer followed by Local Network, Duel Mode, Create.
Custom presets are not important for this mod.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 08, 2017 09:17 PM

Hi Skeggy,

Great work sofar, i think the 10x version could fit well as default setting for MMH55.

I was wondering for variation purposes could all might heroes have original upgrades and magic heroes alternative upgrades and balanced heroes keep a mix?
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted May 09, 2017 07:35 PM

magnomagus said:
Hi Skeggy,

Great work sofar, i think the 10x version could fit well as default setting for MMH55.

I was wondering for variation purposes could all might heroes have original upgrades and magic heroes alternative upgrades and balanced heroes keep a mix?


Thank you.
Yes, they could and yes, I agree. In that case, Elementalist Nur will have different skills, more defensive.
Gorshak will have original upgrades, Quroq will have mix and Shak Karukat alternative upgrades.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 09, 2017 10:31 PM

Sounds good to me.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted May 10, 2017 07:16 PM
Edited by Skeggy at 13:21, 12 May 2017.

magnomagus said:
Sounds good to me.


I believe this is it, changes are made accordingly, along with few minor heroes skill tree modifications.
Personally, I prefer 20x, since 20-times more creatures represent 5-month time, and high hero leveling is somewhat more perceptibly compatible with 5-month full castle creature production.

New upload (same updated link in the first post in thread):

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted May 11, 2017 08:02 PM

Great work!
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted May 12, 2017 01:19 PM
Edited by Skeggy at 02:58, 27 Jun 2017.

Version 4 upload, removed redundant mipmaps that were creating changes in presentation icon sizes, optimized several skilltrees (same updated link in the first post in thread):

fixed bug in Deleb skilltree in new-duel-presets-10x-for-MMH55.pak

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2vqpk2axizyqne8/new-duel-presets-4-for-MMH55.zip

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 12, 2017 10:57 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 17:30, 13 Sep 2017.

Hi Skeggy,

I have done some testing with your mod, I basically used the combat animation x100 speed and watched the AI solve dozens of battles.

Some things I noticed, I think magic heroes are underpowered, probably because

1. economic gains from knowledge are not calculated in (I think this is best solved by giving them small A & D bonus +2,+2?)

2. primary skill bonuses from skills like occultism and enlightment are perhaps not added on top of the base amount of primary skills? since duel mode doesn't add them before the battle.

3. Bias towards spellpower in artifact system is not taken into account

Issue 2 and 3 probably makes them miss around 10SP, they don't need any more knowledge there is no point in that. So giving all magic heroes +2,+2,+10 may roughly fix this issue.

10x is most balanced because with higher numbers this issue gets worse, but tier 1-3 feel very weak since normally they start growing earlier than tier 7, I would recommend actually to use something like

15x for tier 1-3
12x for tier 4-5
10x for tier 6-7

..but this is not the most important issue, so if it's too much work leave it.

Also I noticed lots of heroes have shatter destructive, I think some more variation here would be great. Why not paladin with shatter dark and reaver with shatter light and some heroes with shatter summoning for variation

Also since now all chieftains have shatter dark+dest they are all hard counters versus inferno and dungeon so you don't want to play against them with those factions, I recommend giving only one shatter per hero and a different for one for each chieftain.

I basically want to make most balanced version standard of h55 and have no issues making some small tweaks myself if you are busy. Let me know if you see some things you want to work on or prefer to let it go.

EDIT: Also, the chieftains have a huge shortage currently in primary skills, I guess this was an oversight
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 13, 2017 10:27 PM

Itís just editing text in text files. It was a little bit complicated in the beginning since there are some variables that needed some testing, like OverrideMask, but now itís no problem at all.

I agree with everything youíve said.
1.all magic heroes +2,+2,+10
2.15x for tier 1-3, 12x for tier 4-5, 10x for tier 6-7
3.paladin with shatter dark, reaver with shatter light and some heroes with shatter summoning
4.only one shatter per barbarian hero and a different one for each chieftain

All that sound very reasonable and it is no problem for me to do that.
Tweaks like that can be easily added and maintained.

It was not an oversight that 2 of 3 chieftains have a huge shortage in primary skills since only some chieftains can use learning-enlightenment skill. I guess that behavior is inherited from older versions of mmh 5.5. I just leveled them up and that is what Iíve got. It reflects real game leveling without learning-enlightenment skill.

Since scripts are not allowed, I think enlightenment skill bonuses works, and occultism skill bonuses doesnít work. Perhaps if duel maps are edited scripts will work.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 13, 2017 11:19 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 23:34, 13 Sep 2017.

Quote:
It was not an oversight that 2 of 3 chieftains have a huge shortage in primary skills since only some chieftains can use learning-enlightenment skill. I guess that behavior is inherited from older versions of mmh 5.5. I just leveled them up and that is what Iíve got. It reflects real game leveling without learning-enlightenment skill.


Ok this explains some of the weird balance issues, since at level 39 enlightenment is an overpowered skill (on might heroes). So perhaps some heroes need some nerfing instead.
Do I understand it right that you first upgraded the heroes on a regular map and then inserted the resulting numbers in the duel presets? (because then the scripted bonuses from occultism should have been applied)

However if that regular map was a custom duel map with its own script it probably broke the mod and the numbers would be off.

This is very important for me to know since if I discover any serious balance issues that cannot be explained I need to take a serious look at  h55 design.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 13, 2017 11:47 PM

First, I upgraded heroes on a small custom map with activated scripts to level 39, and yes, scripts were working. Since I didnít want to clone exactly the same hero from the game (because I wanted to be able to change skills without affecting the primary numbers), I removed any kind of bonuses to primary skill added by scripts. Those numbers Iíve transferred to heroes.

I recommend adding some primary numbers to 2 underpowered barbarians instead of nerfing everyone else.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 14, 2017 12:07 AM

Ok since you know best what you did, perhaps it is a good idea if you first fix the most pressing issues according to your design philosophy. Then after I release RC9c any minor issues that still come up I will fix myself.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2017 01:52 AM

Some of the balance issues in primary attributes could be caused by enlightenment skill, since it adds 1 primary stat every three levels, so for level 39 its 13 more primary points.

I did subtract bonuses to primary skill added by scripts, but, it seems that I didnít subtract bonuses added by enlightenment skill. So, there could be a reason for potentially unbalanced primary numbers, since almost all heroes have enlightenment, and the primary numbers Iíve gave them also had +13 more primary points, so when Duel Mode starts, enlightenment kicks in again and adds another round of bonuses, since enlightenment script seems to work even if mmh 5.5 scripts donít.

There are two ways to deal with the issue:
1.remove enlightenment skill from all heroes and replace it with some other skill
2.remove extra 13 points from primary skills and give 2 barbarians 13 points more according to relevant percentages

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 14, 2017 02:45 AM

Yes I see it now, shak karakut is much better balanced. I actually like the fact that the game shakes up the primary skills before every battle because of enlightenment because it simulates different artifact combinations.

So I think best and easiest solution is to just give them all enlightenment and add manually all scripted bonuses that the heroes should get from the skills and perks they actually have.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2017 03:20 AM

Ok, so this is what I'm going to do:
1. 15x for tier 1-3, 12x for tier 4-5, 10x for tier 6-7
2. paladin with shatter dark, reaver with shatter light and some heroes with shatter summoning
3. only one shatter per barbarian hero and a different one for each chieftain
4. remove extra 13 points from primary skills of all heroes that have enlightenment (because when Duel Mode starts game engine will give them back that 13 extra points because they all have enlightenment)
5. give 2 barbarians 13 points more, according to relevant percentages (to simulate like they also have enlightenment)
6. add manually all scripted bonuses that the heroes should get from the skills and perks they actually have (but the game engine does not give them because scripts are not enabled on duel maps)

So game will still shake up primary skills before every battle because of enlightenment, but the shaking will not be that intense.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 14, 2017 11:41 AM

Sounds great
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 15, 2017 02:14 AM
Edited by magnomagus at 02:18, 15 Sep 2017.

One more thing, I have noticed pretty much every one seems to have luck with 2x resistance perks. This makes luck play a very large role in the outcome of the duels, I sometimes had 2 puppet masters misfiring.

I think Duel mode can benefit from completely removing the luck perk on all heroes. Because this makes the mode completely focused on tactics and the mind game. This would also set this mode apart from duel mods that redesign the duel mode on a map where player first choose all the skills (since they can still use luck).

I also think if you remove luck you should just not replace it, just leave it empty, this will cause the battles to be a bit longer with generally lower damage allowing more complex spell casting patterns.

Or perhaps better just give everyone basic luck with no perks, so there is still a rare opportunity for a critical hit (for the psychological effect), but nothing that really disrupts the outcome.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 15, 2017 12:47 PM
Edited by Skeggy at 12:49, 15 Sep 2017.

Everything is done, there are two files,
new-duel-presets-with-luck-10x-for-MMH55.pak and
new-duel-presets-without-luck-10x-for-MMH55.pak

Only one barbarian hero in new-duel-presets-without-luck-10x-for-MMH55.pak has two shutters because there must be two shutters in eight skills of barbarian hero on level 39 that doesn't have access to learning, shout or luck. Logistic and war machines are not usable in Duel Mode, and it would be wrong to give that hero either shout or learning if they cannot access that in main game. Even giving two barbarian heroes 13 points more to simulate like they also have enlightenment is border line correct. And even if they have access to learning, they cannot have access to shout, so two shutters are in fact very correct configuration for almost all barbarian heroes. Besides, it is very interesting to play with heroes with two shutters.

I've replaced luck with other available skills.

New upload (updated link in the first post in thread).

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted September 15, 2017 01:37 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 13:56, 15 Sep 2017.

A huge improvement already

Why are war machines not usable in duel mode, I was wondering about the lack of ballista?

Also did you also apply the scripted penalty for preparation?, I keep getting trampled by Irina.

Also the small bonus for lack of knowledge-economy gain was not applied to magic heroes yet right? (no need to do it right now, i just need to know)

EDIT:

2 shatters is ok if it is sum+dest otherwise it is a hard counter versus an entire faction.

but, I think you should consider removing just one skill for everybody if you really want to enforce 'ingame buildup realism' since in real XL map games one slot is always used for logistics. This basically contradicts you on barbarian learning.
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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted September 15, 2017 03:15 PM

Yes, I did already subtract -2 attack for preparation from all heroes who had preparation (manually because Duel Mode didnít do it automatically).

War machines, well, no matter what I write in files, heroes receive from the game only what is default game behavior (like picking a new hero in a new game).

Iím not sure I understand this ďsmall bonus for lack of knowledge-economy gainĒ, can you elaborate some more?

Concerning multiple shutters, Iím not sure what do you mean. Are barbarian heroes such a threat if they have more than one shutter if that shutter is different than summoning + destructive?

Well, yes, I could just remove one skill to simulate some possible real game environment, however, Seers will always have luck like Razzak with magic resistance, and Duel Mode is just not fun without happy marching golems or without Demon Lord Marbas having ability to resist everything.

So, it will always be some exceptions, BUT, I could remove enlightenment from everyone; only Druids have native enlightenment and that can be easily corrected in primary numbers, but youíll lose that shaking up of primary skills that simulates different artifact combinations. Game will last more because heroes will have less primary points. Could no luck AND no enlightenment make Duel Mode more interesting? What do you say?

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