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Heroes Community > Summoners Academy > Thread: Party setups/team creation discussion
Thread: Party setups/team creation discussion This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 28, 2017 01:10 PM
Edited by Galaad at 13:46, 02 Aug 2017.

Party setups/team creation discussion

So, after I noticed it's a recurrent question from newcomers and the main discussion thread is rather huge to look into now, I thought this topic deserves one of its own.
Whether you are new to the game and seek advice for party creation or you simply have questions about mechanics, or whether you are already a veteran and want to show off and brag about your party(ies) and enlighten the community with your knowledge, this is the right place for it!

Before we get started, a few tips for beginners!

At first, you have few creatures, low energy, low resources and items, low everything, but don't worry, it gets better quite fast.

I would say the very basics to get a good party going would be to have the following:

A healer

Of course, very important, you're never too safe from a critical hit by those damn specials and I hardly see how you can progress without decent support. So, get one in with you unless you like the taste of death!

A few healers I think are great:
- Siren, probably the best healer in the game? Her words are not only extremely powerful she also cleanses you from these nasty debuffs.
- Muse, the Mend regen is amazing, a fully awakened one gives you close to 1k HP regen per round, + you get a +40% luck buff, it's fantastic. Her only downside is she had a rather weak cleanse (too random to be reliable, doesn't work most of the time) and while she heals everyone she might not heal everyone each time either, as she hits 5 (6 awakened) *random* targets, but the latter is manageable.

Others like Couatl or Tengu are OK too but just not as good imo. There is other healers I don't have direct experience with (not in my storage) but the Druid seems pretty amazing too? If anyone got one, please comment on it, or if you get any I haven't mentioned and think is worth a notice for that matter.

A stunner

Almost as important as your healer, it goes without saying a creature that delays the turns of others is a great asset in a turn-based combat system. If you lack one, look for a silencer, they are viable alternatives for the most part. These creatures, you want them to succeed in their specials, and depending on stats, a luck totems buff can just be what you need.

A few stunners I think are great: Basically any of the Giants, the Cocatrix, or for early setups the Frog is kinda great too. Feel free to add more if you think so, I basically only use Forest Guardian.

A nuker

While it is good to have support, you need to land your hits too, otherwise the battles will be long and tedious. Your nuker NEEDS to have its multipliers working, more than once you will need to one shot creatures or deal high damage, especially versus difficult Bosses in Battle Tower or harder quests.

A few nukers that I think are great:
- Again the Giants, can have double function of stun + nuke (some like the Forest one also heals) and can overall be considered powerhouses.
- The Phoenix is deadly to any Nature creature with it's INSANE damage on special, probably one of the best creatures in the game overall. It's warm and fuzzy.
- The Dark Elf, my personal favorite, squishy but deadly, you got to time your attacks right if you want her to survive, but is manageable.
- The ArchMage, not only his damage is huge it is also huge on AoE, similar deal than with DE, watch out for it not to die by cautious timing in turns.
- The Colossus, similar to a Giant as it both hits good and is also relatively tanky.

No doubts there is plenty other viable nukers I haven't mentioned.

So these three, imo, are the core needed for a solid party, rest is either situational or purely depending on one's playstyle preference. You are welcomed to ask anything that is on your mind or point out something I missed and you consider is important.


OK enough with the fundamentals, I am gonna start, and I am gonna brag.

Of course core guild mates and most regulars have already heard me about it and will learn nothing here (as well as earlier), but for newcomers or fresh players, maybe it is lost in the main thread and too much of a chore to search the tidbits of infos here and there. So, here is my main party:



This grants me an average of 90-95% of winning rate in Dungeon Challenge, and King difficulty on single-player quests has become a cakewalk with battles getting passed almost as fast as if I used a quick battle point (ok, I exaggerate a bit for that last, but not even so much )

Why do I like this party

First, it has all three functions I consider primordial for survival: heal, stun, and nuke. Second but is the most important, it has ALL multipliers working, this leads to great fun and combinations in attacks.
Lastly, I love the creatures, freaking ArchMage and Phoenix FTW

Problems of this party

Is weak against strong Dark encounters, as healer can be gone fast, then everyone is crippled without multipliers working. But this is a choice I made, so that her Mana gets filled up as fast as possible without taking it all at the same time. Also, the Muse lacking a reliable cleanse makes it fail for Tower 51 and things can be tricky against a Phoenix. It still can manage most Dark waves, but crits don't forgive here.

***

Just for the sake of another example, here is currently my secondary party, although I haven't used it much yet:



Basically it "corrects" the faults of my main party, if I get trouble in a strong Dark wave, I can use this one instead, as the healer is not on its weak element for this peculiar battle anymore and also the the nuker's element has been inverted. I have yet to give it a try on Black Wish as I'm full of anything this map provides but in theory it should work. The ArchMage is a better yellow than the Titan, but the Titan has the multipliers working for this setup.

Another alternative I have using the Siren is this one for variety and bigger panel of choice depending on situations:



As you can, very similar, but sometime just one color swap can make the difference.

A more color counter specific party



This is the typical example I will bring against strong yellows, the Yellow Wish quest for example is getting taken care of very easily on highest difficulty with such team, as there is no Water creature in it, and two Nature dealing good damage.
Amusingly enough, my main healer became secondary healer in this disposition, can you tell why?


OK I guess that should be enough pointers, I reiterate, anyone is welcomed to contribute to this thread with either questions or more tips, show off a bit because your party rocks, is great fun and you know it, or simply for short questions, thoughts, remarks, wandering or any incentive to speak about whatever is on your mind about the subject.
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xexamedes
xexamedes


Adventuring Hero
posted May 28, 2017 08:14 PM

Druid is awesome, however she is horribly squishy even with totems. Once she's up to 105 she survives much better. Green giant is also a viable healer although he lacks cleanse.

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dulkan
dulkan


Known Hero
posted May 28, 2017 08:27 PM
Edited by dulkan at 20:38, 28 May 2017.

Alright something general

Healer != Supporter

A healer is a creature whose special does nothing but heal and possibly buff your team. A supporter is a creature whose special buffs your team. So a muse is a healer/support. A siren is a pure healer. An elephant is supporter/aoe dmg.

Second a healer is not mandatory, I've been running without a healer for ages now and don't have any trouble. The only points where I bring a healer in is tower 50 and 51 for the cleanses and that only because I don't have any of the genies which can cleanse.

The muse is an absolutely terrible healer. She heals barely anything and heals random targets on top of that. Her only saving grace is the mend, which is only useful when she is fully awakened. So please stop recommending her as a priamry healer.

Good primary healers are:
- pixie (basically a smaller version of the siren)
- druidess (Best healer in the game, heals entire team and cleanses for about 3/4th of the sirens output)
- troglodyte - rezzes and has a decent group heal
- undertaker - single target rezzer, but is basically unkillable
- tengu - random targets, but alleviates that by also healing the team for a decent amount
- egghead - very good early game healer
- dragon turtle -  sturdy and good team heal



Now, on to your team:

Honestly Galaad. I hate your team comp.

You have 3 super fragile creatures in there with the archmage, the dark elf and the muse. And I just can't get my head around as to why you still use a muse, she is a rare for gods sake, she has no business being in a team of a lvl 269.

Please don't think "But I'm getting along very well". You have a phoenix and a forest giant, which are among the best creatures in the game. You are getting carried by the sheer power of those two. With both of these, you should have a 100% atk-rate in the dungeon with no problems whatsoever.

Yes, mend is extremely good. I myself rely on it heavily with my baroness, but its not worth it bringing such a weak creature. Elephant and the peri you have are better buffers AND better healers, while also able to do significant dmg! Yeah, you lose out on cleanse, but cleanse isn't that important.

Then why archmage AND dark elf? You cannot afford to have 3 fragile creatures on your team. The only creature below 12k hp I have is the baroness and I even think about replacing her despite the amazing mend because she is so fragile. They also pretty much fulfill the same role of nuking a target down, where the archmage is a bit worse but has the aoe capability. So, not only do you bring so many fragile creatures, they don'T even fulfill any real purpose besides dealing dmg.

Besides all of that, you don't need either, the forest giant and the phoenix are enough dmg by themselves. So instead of looking for building a team to support your two core creatures, you build fragile nukers around them, who are completely redundant.

If I were you I'd kick the muse for the peri (peri gives 40% pwr and luck, why on earth isn't that guy on your team but that silly muse?? That's basically 2k extra power for your phoenix or 9k extra damage) and the dark elf for the banshee. Banshee would give you silence, which will completely incapacitate any boss. If you really want to keep the mend you could also look into putting the jade dragon in your team.

Oh. And you have a titan. Which is a strictly better creature than the archmage. I'd understand, if the archmage was 4d and the titan 3d. But that isn't the case.

Not to mention, you have 2 creatures (forest giant and archmage) who are one essence away from lvl 105. What's up with that?

Btw, don't worry about the phoenix combo. Combo does literally nothing for a phoenix.


The colossus isn't a nuker, he deals aoe-dmg. His nuking ability is average. I mean come on, he has 2300 pwr and deals 150% pwr dmg, that's a base dmg of under 4k. A real nuker has at least 6k base-dmg.





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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 28, 2017 09:23 PM

Well, honestly I think we just have a different playstyle. You tell me my party isn't viable but would you think I would still use it if it wasn't? The combo of the Phoenix works for basic attack, which I happen to use as well. I play with fragile creatures that is right, and I can afford to do that because of precisely what you said, if things go wrong, I can rely on the Phoenix and Forest Giant and still win the dungeon, I'd be lying if I said this hasn't happened. Most of the time everyone is alive though, it's basically either everyone survives or at worst case scenario only the Phoenix makes it, sometimes only ArchMage loses, other times improbable things like only th DE and Muse are alive at the end, it depends.
Please realize though, regarding offense you're speaking purely competitively, with good setups of rares I'm sure SP maps are winnable on King, might need a few Epics still but I wouldn't even bet. Let me explain you something about the Dark Elf, her damage is AMAZING. With my party setup, when on to Boss waves, I basically just stun, luck buff for the fun, basic attacks from others until she gets highest multiplier and one shots anything. When a Phoenix rebirths, she even kills it all without combos unless he's fully awoken to regen at 100% which is still rare to see.
The ArchMage, yes he has 11k HP, but that's enough for the vast majority of my time, doing rerolls and all is not worth it to me. The ArchMage is so good it can give a x20 to my Dark Elf, although at this point it's a bit overkill since everyone has been annihilated.
I can assure you, my offense IS doing good, both in SP and competition, but yes I can admit my party can be a bit tricky to use at times.
Thanks for your opinion anyway I appreciate it.

What about your party though?
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted May 28, 2017 09:52 PM

Got a 3-dot siren from the event, as well as a bunch of duplicates with fewer dots for awakening. Is she worth leveling considering that other 2 of my main party creatures are water too? (one blue drake and one blue dragon, both 3 dots). Also, I want a 3 or 4 dots Muse so bad Got around 6 of 2-1 dots muses and a sh1tload of white gems, but I can't seem to get one with more dots.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 28, 2017 10:37 PM
Edited by Galaad at 22:40, 28 May 2017.

Possibly not even Dulkan would contradict me regarding Siren, she is very solid with a great healing and gets to cleanse, so I would say yes. Maybe wait until the end of the event before leveling it in case you find a 4d.
Drop rates seem to be totally random, I ran a 2d Muse for couple of months of playing before finding a 3d one. She is farmable in Battle of Bards but I got mine from Battle Tower 42. When I had all the dupes required for full awakening, I recycled my 2d one to transfer the totems onto the new one.
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dulkan
dulkan


Known Hero
posted May 29, 2017 12:03 AM
Edited by dulkan at 00:10, 29 May 2017.

Siren is excellent in PVE. In PVP she is unreliable, as everybody counters her out with hyenas and kangoroos nowadays.


Galaad, I know you lose consistently to 3-wave LE defenses with rezzers, because those just tear your fragile creatures apart. That's unnecessary. Yes, you may have amazing dmg and yes the dark elf is a godlike nuker(2nd best in the game in fact). But you make things unnecessarily hard for yourself.

You have one of the best support creatures in the game with the Peri and use a muse over him for whatever reason. You use a fragile dark elf, when you already have 3 other nukers on the team, as good as she is, that's just overkill. then you use an archmage, when you already have a phoenix and forest giant, who are better nukers. Interestingly, while you love nukers so much, you don't want to use the best one in the game (titan, which incidentally is also a lot sturdier than archmage and dark elf), because you can't be bothered to reroll its combo.

Yeah, that x20 on the dark elf on that one remaining half health guy after your archmage attack, that's really worthwhile, isn't it? Now you can overkill him by a couple thousand hp more!


Your team comp is basically 3 nukers, a nuker/stunner/healer hybrid and an unreliable healer with good support. The thing is your team comp doesn't work because you do it the way you do, it works despite the way you do it, because the pheonix and forest giant have so much raw power to carry a lot by themselves. Stacking up so many nukers with no protection whatsoever is incredibly unreliable as you notice by consistently losing to strong first waves.

But please finally enlighten me as to why you refuse to use the Peri. You lose the mend and cleanse. but gain a better healer,  a 40% pwr buff on top of the luck buff, a sturdier creature and another guy who hit the enemies.




My team comp is very simple.

Forest Giant (nuke, stun, heal)

Baroness of Blood (1.2k hp mend and a little bit of dmg. Fragile with only 10k hp, but her mend is very strong)

Leviathan (nuker. Base dmg isn't that great, but as he came with a x16 combo and has insanely high atk, so he can still do the job of oneshotting most bosses. Also with 14khp and 2600 def fairly durable)

Spider Queen (-40% debuff to everything cripples bosses completely. Also deals decent dmg)

Elephant (45% luck buff, decent dmg and heal + very sturdy)

The elephant is the guy who'll get replaced soon. I now have both a genie (yellow, 60% pwr buff, good nuke, secondary heals) who I'll have to level. I'm just too lazy somehow, as I don't need to change anything, it's been 3 or 4 weeks since I lost an attack. But I'll get around to it.

I also have a valkyrie, which would be even better, but using her owuld mean I'd have to reroll the combos for the entire team, which is just too much of a risk in my opinion.

If I'd gotten a 4d titan form the event a few weeks ago (no chance at that, as I couldn't even play tuesday evening that week) I probably would have kicked the Levi in favor of the titan and added the valkyrie in once I got her.

Also sphinx was something I was looking at to add silence to my team, but didn't get any in 5 multisummons.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 29, 2017 12:26 AM
Edited by Galaad at 01:00, 29 May 2017.

dulkan said:
But you make things unnecessarily hard for yourself.


The way I see it I make things more fun.

To tell the truth though, I do not consistently lose against strong first waves like you say, I lose very few battles and defeat most defenses that have very high rate from top players. Sure I may lose a guy or two  in the process, but things work out for me whether you believe it or not.

About the Peri, are you sure it heals? The description only says it gives luck and power buff? Otherwise guess I would have replaced my AWESOME () Muse with it yes.
Edit: Just checked and nope no heal.

Quote:
it's been 3 or 4 weeks since I lost an attack


Hmm? I'm pretty sure I would have a noticed a constant 100% rate, that's not the impression I had but maybe I remember wrong.

Quote:
My team comp is very simple.


Roh come on put a screen.

@Lizard: Oops just noticed what you said in the brackets, no three party members of same element is too color-counter specific to be used as a main party imo, although IIRC Xexa used something similar a while back so heh, not always so easy to tell.
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wabba
wabba

Tavern Dweller
posted May 29, 2017 01:01 AM

Galaad said:


About the Peri, are you sure it heals? The description only says it gives luck and power buff? Otherwise guess I would have replaced my AWESOME () Muse with it yes.




If you have awakened him once (1 orange star) he'll heal the entire team at 50% luck, but only if the luck buff is active. This means you'll have to use his special attack twice on the same stage before the healing effect occurs.

If you awaken him to 4 orange stars, he'll be able to heal the entire team at 50% power aswell, if the power buff is active.

Peri is absolutely amazing if you ask me, and I use him most the time. When I activate a 16x combo with my Peri he'll heal the team to full health He's also great for speed farming or climbing the tower fast  

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 29, 2017 01:08 AM

God damnit, the french translation is a complete disaster. I can forgive when they can't spell words but in my game it says that nowhere in creature's description. Now that you told me this, I understand the mistake they did, and the way it is said, it means more that the PWR and LCK buffs are enhanced further. They used such an improbable word for the context instead of simply "cure" or "heal".

Thanks a lot.
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wabba
wabba

Tavern Dweller
posted May 29, 2017 01:14 AM

You're welcome

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Bragjul
Bragjul


Adventuring Hero
aka Titanu88
posted May 29, 2017 03:34 PM

dulkan said:
Yes, you may have amazing dmg and yes the dark elf is a godlike nuker(2nd best in the game in fact).


Pardon my intrusion, but which one is the best nuker if DE is 2nd?

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 29, 2017 04:50 PM
Edited by Galaad at 16:59, 29 May 2017.

He said it in next paragraph.

I am not entirely convinced a 4d DE isn't better than a 3d Titan, but I have yet to upgrade him a bit and play more with.


Honestly though, I've been reading a few more times your points Dulkan, and while you make good points, you don't realize how awesome my party actually is.
Honestly, the only reason I am backing down recently in competition is because of my awful defense rate, and I don't have the time to play that much to compensate for it. If there is an upcoming Legendary I absolutely want to get, like it was with the Phoenix back when only top 3 had a creature, you'll see.

I will defend it a bit better now that I have a minute and the will to do so.

- You tell me my creatures are fragile, I reply you they stay alive 100% of the time in SP maps, as well as most of the time in competition. Yes, I very rarely lose and sometimes win with a crippled party, but in the end it's viable.

- Then you tell me I should reroll Titan's combo and replace Archmage with him, but that would actually screw my party. I use Archmage precisely because of the AoE damage (which is devastating), and while yes the x16+ multiplier from the DE is overkill in SP and even competition, it is very useful in Battle Tower against these insanely tanky Bosses. Having such a nuking party also allows me to end fights faster in quests thus being less tempted to use quick coins, which is important to me. So as of now I rather use him in other setups, I do not have another party using different colors that is satisfying me as much as this one. But if I think I need to reroll it, I will.

- Finally you say the Muse is unreliable while I've been using one since forever and despite me telling you she is perfectly viable you keep bashing on it. Her ONLY weak spot (despite low HP but that too is manageable) is, since the heal is random, it can happen -although quite rarely- than one creature goes unhealed. So what do I do, if I see I NEED to heal no matter what before next turn? I heal with the Giant instead. Because yes, the flaws of one creature gets corrected by a coherent party composition. You need to see how my creatures work as a team, along each other, not individually. Another example with my Dark Elf her luck affiliation, the Muse boosts her luck with +40%. Also to notice when members are full on HP they don't get targeted by the heal, increasing the chances of those in more needs to benefit from it. Seriously, she is in my opinion very interesting to use and quite entertaining precisely because a **** up can cost you badly, but that is just how I like to play.
Her mend is not that far from the Baroness with a mere roughly 300 HP difference, between a Rare and a Legendary, that's noticeable. If the Muse would cleanse 100% of the time she would be the most awesome healer in the game hands down in my opinion.


In the end maybe you also need to know I did my party depending on what the game offered me and I always give priority to creatures I prefer. Although I would take your opinion more into consideration if I had troubles with my offense, but it is not the case.

Anyway I thank you again for your input even though we strongly disagree, is never bad to sometimes see things in a different light.
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scurvynaive
scurvynaive


Adventuring Hero
posted May 29, 2017 07:44 PM

uh no offense galaad but when you say things like...

Seriously, she is in my opinion very interesting to use and quite entertaining precisely because a **** up can cost you badly

It kind of shoots your whole argument in the foot.  Sounds like you are arbitrarily making the game more challenging because you prefer a challenge.   Which is just fine for your enjoyment you should play however makes it the most fun for you but if we are trying to give people helpful tips to build a strong team well then...need I say more?
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dulkan
dulkan


Known Hero
posted May 29, 2017 08:04 PM
Edited by dulkan at 20:07, 29 May 2017.

I doubt they stay alive 100% of the time. A single special from a black creature will oneshot the muse. A single special from a white creature will oneshot the dark elf. If you ever run into a first wave with a kitsune/owl and mummy, you WILL lose one the two. You are only lucky in this regard, because white/black isn't frequently used on wave 1.

How would replacing the archmage screw the party? AoE damage is the msot superflous thing in the game, you never ever need it, as there no situatinos, where oyu need to take out two creatures at the same time. The best thing AoE dmg does is making it go a little faster, but losing that isn'T screwing the party. Besides the titan has AoE, too. And yes, of course a 3d titan won't deal as much as dmg as a x16 DE.

I use the muse on tower lvl 51 and every single time I wish I didn't need to. She is completely unreliable. I actually lost several tries because she refused to heal/cleanse the owl. I'd never put my team into the hands of a completely random healer. Even the Kirin, who heals 10 targets for well over 2k each is very mediocre due to his random targetting. Then there is the factor that the muse is terrible at actually healing. 6 random heals for 50% power, even with your scholar tome that's just 5.4k total heal, half as much as a forest giant heals, she is so incredibly bad at healing, it's hilarious.
Also great strategy, you cover the inability of your HEALER to heal, by using another a creature to heal. What? The entire purpose of a healer is to heal, yet you must make arrangements to cover for her in your team comp, lol.

Yeah, compare apples to oranges. if your muse has a 900HP mend you use scholar on her and she is fully awakened. And still only 75% of the mend of an unawakened baroness with soldier. If my baroness was fully awakened her mend would be 1400-1500, with scholar possibly 1600-1700.
If you actually had a baroness you'd have long cast your precious muse into the abyss, because the mend is thew only thing which keeps the muse somewhat afloat.

What luck affliation on the dark elf? There is literally nothing on her which has anything to do with luck. And don't tell me it's because of crits. Anything the dark elf touches with a x16 is dead, crits only increase the amount of overkill. Also stop bringing that damn luck buff up. It's completely irrelelevant. The Peri has the same buff, the elephant has a better buff (45% luck). A buff doesn'T amtter when the possible replacement creatures have it too.

Btw, you have troubles. You have 92% win-rate. That's what? 3-5 losses? All crashes? Or do you trade? If neither, then 92% is inexcusabley low.


So, here is a screenshot of my team

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xexamedes
xexamedes


Adventuring Hero
posted May 29, 2017 10:05 PM
Edited by xexamedes at 22:13, 29 May 2017.

current team :



available options:




I prefer to avoid using epic and smaller critters unless I need a special that I dont have available on a boss.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 29, 2017 10:06 PM
Edited by Galaad at 22:07, 29 May 2017.

dulkan said:
I doubt they stay alive 100% of the time. A single special from a black creature will oneshot the muse. A single special from a white creature will oneshot the dark elf. If you ever run into a first wave with a kitsune/owl and mummy, you WILL lose one the two. You are only lucky in this regard, because white/black isn't frequently used on wave 1.


I said 100% of the time in SP MAPS, you keep focusing on the competitive aspect which is one of the most limited aspects of the whole game. The dungeon challenges offers very short range of strategy compared to questing. The whole thing is to time your turns right so that you hit first the most dangerous threats. And obviously I am not complaining encountering few white/black waves since it gives me an advantage compared to someone who would have to rely on Siren against all these Kangoos and Hyenas like you rightly said earlier.

Quote:
How would replacing the archmage screw the party? AoE damage is the msot superflous thing in the game, you never ever need it, as there no situatinos, where oyu need to take out two creatures at the same time. The best thing AoE dmg does is making it go a little faster, but losing that isn'T screwing the party. Besides the titan has AoE, too


You keep blaming me for using fragile creatures yet you don't want me to use AoE damage. For my party setup, AoE of damage is much safer than single attacks. The Titan's AoE is nowhere close to the ArchMage's one, at least not now and I have no use to awaken a yellow creature further ATM.

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I use the muse on tower lvl 51 and every single time I wish I didn't need to. She is completely unreliable. I actually lost several tries because she refused to heal/cleanse the owl. I'd never put my team into the hands of a completely random healer. Even the Kirin, who heals 10 targets for well over 2k each is very mediocre due to his random targetting. Then there is the factor that the muse is terrible at actually healing. 6 random heals for 50% power, even with your scholar tome that's just 5.4k total heal, half as much as a forest giant heals, she is so incredibly bad at healing, it's hilarious.


You take the only example in the whole game where the Muse doesn't work. She is reliable if you time her right and in combination with the mend is sufficient. You don't need to have uber massive healing to stay alive.

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Also great strategy, you cover the inability of your HEALER to heal, by using another a creature to heal. What? The entire purpose of a healer is to heal, yet you must make arrangements to cover for her in your team comp, lol.


Honestly I see parties with one main and another secondary healer all the time, including your own party, you even use the Elephant as a bonus, I don't understand why you are mocking a necessary arrangement I made for my party to be viable.

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If you actually had a baroness you'd have long cast your precious muse into the abyss, because the mend is thew only thing which keeps the muse somewhat afloat.


I certainly would but I don't have a Baroness to replace my Muse with it mate. 900+ HP/turn is enough to survive, I don't understand why you don't believe me.

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What luck affliation on the dark elf? There is literally nothing on her which has anything to do with luck. And don't tell me it's because of crits. Anything the dark elf touches with a x16 is dead, crits only increase the amount of overkill


Yes I tell you it's because of crits, because yet again, there is also the basic attack which you can use, and for which I am grateful I have the multiplier working on Phoenix as well, there is nothing better for fast mana fill to kill with a basic, and the multiplier here is far from being overkill.

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Btw, you have troubles. You have 92% win-rate. That's what? 3-5 losses? All crashes? Or do you trade? If neither, then 92% is inexcusabley low.


No no crashes, three losses, I didn't think 92% was considered “inexcusably low”, sorry about that.

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uh no offense galaad but when you say things like...

Seriously, she is in my opinion very interesting to use and quite entertaining precisely because a **** up can cost you badly

It kind of shoots your whole argument in the foot.  Sounds like you are arbitrarily making the game more challenging because you prefer a challenge.   Which is just fine for your enjoyment you should play however makes it the most fun for you but if we are trying to give people helpful tips to build a strong team well then...need I say more?


Guess I didn't turn that quite right, it IS a powerful party setup, but it is a bit tricky of use. I will take the opportunity to point that possibly the point of the thread got a bit lost, I am not presenting a “perfect example” to follow, just my own party that is working for me and that I find highly enjoyable, of course there is enough variety for different approaches and the more different setups showcased the better.
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xexamedes
xexamedes


Adventuring Hero
posted May 29, 2017 10:15 PM

basic attacks with a x16 multiplier are surprisingly effective.. my druid is becoming rather enthusiastic at punching things in the face

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dulkan
dulkan


Known Hero
posted May 29, 2017 11:57 PM

Galaad said:

I said 100% of the time in SP MAPS, you keep focusing on the competitive aspect which is one of the most limited aspects of the whole game. The dungeon challenges offers very short range of strategy compared to questing. The whole thing is to time your turns right so that you hit first the most dangerous threats. And obviously I am not complaining encountering few white/black waves since it gives me an advantage compared to someone who would have to rely on Siren against all these Kangoos and Hyenas like you rightly said earlier.


Who cares about SP? At this point the quests are so easy, you can do pretty much do whatever you want and succeed. You can probably put 3 lvl 1 smalls with your giant and phoenix and still beat every quest in the game.

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You keep blaming me for using fragile creatures yet you don't want me to use AoE damage. For my party setup, AoE of damage is much safer than single attacks. The Titan's AoE is nowhere close to the ArchMage's one, at least not now and I have no use to awaken a yellow creature further ATM.



It should be pretty close when fully awakened. And no matter what, AoE is not that useful. You are better off just taking out the 2-3 threats per wave and then generate mana.

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You take the only example in the whole game where the Muse doesn't work. She is reliable if you time her right and in combination with the mend is sufficient. You don't need to have uber massive healing to stay alive.



Telling me, she is reliable when you do this and such is exactly the definition of unreliable. She is not reliable, when you need to meet specific conditions for her to be realiable. Especially on fights like tower 51 it is nearly impossible to make sure nobody but the guy you want to heal is injured.

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Honestly I see parties with one main and another secondary healer all the time, including your own party, you even use the Elephant as a bonus, I don't understand why you are mocking a necessary arrangement I made for my party to be viable.


What are you talking about? My party has no primary healer. The baroness deals dmg and applies mend, she doesn't heal at all beyond the mend.
I'm mocking you, because you purposely build a party to work around an unreliable rare, just because you like her mend, while one of the best supports in the game, the peri, sits on the bench.


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Yes I tell you it's because of crits, because yet again, there is also the basic attack which you can use, and for which I am grateful I have the multiplier working on Phoenix as well, there is nothing better for fast mana fill to kill with a basic, and the multiplier here is far from being overkill.


Oh dear. So basically you are saying that every single creature in the game has a luck affiliation. Stop worrying about crits on basics. Crits in general are a mechanic, which only really helps you on defense. Their effect is completely overshadowed by high combos on attack. A basic crit is 800 extra dmg for your 1.6k pwr dark elf. Even if that luck buff would grant 10% additional crit chance, which it likely doesn't, it would be worth a massive 80 dmg on average, woo.

Getting the basic combo working on the phoenix is a fair point.

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No no crashes, three losses, I didn't think 92% was considered “inexcusably low”, sorry about that.



Yes, With phoenix and forest giant your winrate should be 100%. There is no excuse losing any attack, when you have both of the top creatures in the game available to you. Either one of them is able to solo many dungeons, when you have both and build a good team around them you are unstoppable.
As I said, the last time I lost an attack for real was 4 weeks ago and I don't even have a phoenix.



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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted May 30, 2017 12:19 AM
Edited by Galaad at 02:28, 30 May 2017.

I do care about SP, in fact I want more maps. Also any newcomer to the game would care about SP since they are mandatory to progress?

Look, I do not understand why you are so desperate on telling me the Muse isn't good. If it wasn't good I would have rerolled combos and reorganized my party around the Siren a while ago. You just don't know how to use her.
Oh my bad about the Baroness, I thought she was healing too, not only mend.
I don't think crits don't matter, the difference is noticeable to me and I often use basic attacks, you can't rely on specials all the time, game can be very situational as you know.
Lastly I don't really care about getting a 100% win rate, I care of having fun and more than 90% is largely enough to get aimed rewards every single time. My real issue in dungeons is defense not attack, it can be too expensive on CP at times, not to mention time consuming.

Oh, and about the Peri, I got it last week or so. Until he's at least awoken is no candidate to replace my Muse. Actually this party was not built around the Muse initially but around the Dark Elf since I got it in my first or second multi-summon. I run this setup for a while now, only the ArchMage is a recent addition to replace the Yellow Dragon. And before I won the Phoenix, I had a 2d Harpy.
In other words: the Muse is actually so good I can afford not to use the Peri.
But he sounds amazing so I will awaken him up whenever I get the essences.

xexamedes said:
basic attacks with a x16 multiplier are surprisingly effective.. my druid is becoming rather enthusiastic at punching things in the face



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