|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
posted February 15, 2018 07:21 AM |
|
|
Elvin said:
but we knew they'd copy paste half the H6 lineup..
At least H6 wasn't so horrid as to have the purple butterfly. Although to be fair, I think Dark Elves have a place in heroes, I just don't think that place is Dungeon. NWC's style of Dungeon should definitely return with manticores and minotaurs and blackies and all that fun stuff, but Dark Elves and something similar to the Faceless (mind flayers?) could absolutely work as a separate entity IMO. They could have things like mimics and even something like a drider. Make it the Ashanite wet dream so that other factions aren't ruined (without Ashan of course, clearing the way for decent lore and much toning down of the color-coding and spikes and such). Make them rivals in-universe to Dungeon; Dungeon would a lawful evil faction who searches for power via control of magical beasts oppressing their subjects, make Dark Elf Dungeon chaotic evil who just destroys everything in their path and resents and sort of order. They could even be a more might-leaning faction, keeping with the theme of stealth and poison and trickery.
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 09:00 AM |
|
|
I can appreciate a cutthroat faction but dungeon's Ashanification was jarring. There is a wealth of dungeon or subterranean-themed mythological creatures and instead we got more dark elves, butterfly dragons and creepy mimes. And darkness, lots of darkness.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 01:06 PM |
|
|
Elvin said:
butterfly dragons and creepy mimes. And darkness, lots of darkness.
Wow Elvin, you sound almost traumatized. 
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 01:20 PM |
|
|
All I'm saying is that often enough, less is more. Whatever theme ubi went for, they took it to ludicrous levels. Including spikes, darkness, spiders, bling accessories..
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 03:55 PM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
Elvin said:
butterfly dragons and creepy mimes. And darkness, lots of darkness.
Wow Elvin, you sound almost traumatized.
Purple darkness. How odd is that?
____________
"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
|
|
bitmaid
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 06:00 PM |
|
|
That's exactly why the poll was a bad idea. They should never force the fans to choose between Inferno and Dungeon. Without Inferno, Dungeon becomes the default villain. I want the good old Dungeon back too. Even though I enjoyed the campaign I loathed some of the creatures and almost always replaced the Soulless and the Shade with elementals or neutrals the first chance I get.
Yeah I don't have 100% faith that Ubisoft would've given the PR budget to the devs otherwise either, in that parallel universe the project is overseen by someone with brains. From what I know they outsourced a lot of work and even then the people who worked on it were grossly underpaid.
What also pisses me of is seeing them making all these inane spin offs like MMO, mobile or whatever, when it's clear that not every IP fits every platform and it's so painfully obvious that Heroes should and would only succeed as a PC TBS game. They're wasting all this money and resources instead of focusing on making one solid game. It's so retarded like I can't.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 06:21 PM |
|
|
They didn't even have a single person to make sure models are of a comparable size - Say hello to tiny blackies and huge stags! Not to mention one single person to work on the AI. No hope with this kind of cheapness.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 07:12 PM |
|
|
Elvin said:
They didn't even have a single person to make sure models are of a comparable size - Say hello to tiny blackies and huge stags!
Pffft silly Elvin, these are MAGIC stags. That's why they're more powerful than griffins, bears, dire wolves, giant spiders, liches, djinns, lamasus, orcs, wyverns, valkyries, medusae, and panthers. Duh.
In all seriousness though why the snow would they think the stags were a good idea? I can kind of understand having them as a neutral but how could they replace the unicorns? That's like replacing manticores in dungeon with metal slenderman wannabes, or bone dragons with neon driders!
____________
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 15, 2018 09:23 PM |
|
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 06:16 AM |
|
|
Can't blame people for picking the least terrible of their lineups. When you have a favourite unit in each or when you absolutely want to avoid a stupid unit, things get messy. Plus there was much we did not know, like the ninja blade dancer being replaced by the rapist war dancer, the phoenix becoming golden or even that the treants would be ranged. I even wonder if people would not have flocked to the first dungeon lineup if they knew how stupid the striders would look.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 10:50 AM |
|
Edited by Maurice at 10:50, 16 Feb 2018.
|
Stevie said:
You can thank the community for that as well as Team Erwan for handling the line-ups the way they did.
I find it odd that you put so much blame on the community, while the community only stated their opinion through whatever tools UbiSoft provided to the community to make that opinion known.
UbiSoft totally butchered their community interaction during the development, but for some reason the community is to blame for the crappy result?
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 11:57 AM |
|
|
bitmaid said:
That's exactly why the poll was a bad idea. They should never force the fans to choose between Inferno and Dungeon. Without Inferno, Dungeon becomes the default villain.
That totally misses the point, which is that there are no default villain (factions) in Heroes of Ashan.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 12:56 PM |
|
|
Maurice said:
I find it odd that you put so much blame on the community, while the community only stated their opinion through whatever tools UbiSoft provided to the community to make that opinion known.
UbiSoft totally butchered their community interaction during the development, but for some reason the community is to blame for the crappy result?
I'm not being that harsh with the community, the chunk of the blame still goes to whoever had the idea of an open dev and managed it like that. It's just that from that experiment I've come to War-Overlord's conclusion from back in the day that the broader audience is not a good adviser to have. Right now, my position is that the community should not be given a say with regards to game design.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 01:08 PM |
|
|
|
please. we've all had better ideas than ubi's ever come up with.
|
|
JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 01:19 PM |
|
|
Even if that was true, which I doubt - a "better" idea doesn't make a good game.
Also, the problem here is that "good" isn't nearly enough.
|
|
fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 01:23 PM |
|
|
|
doubt it all you want. i made a thread to specify what people wanted in a heroes game. check it out and see for yourself.
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 02:18 PM |
|
|
There were critics from the fans regarding game design but developers disagreed and did their thing anyway, even though they admitted themselves lacking knowledge of the game. An example of fans ideas vs Ubi ideas? Look no further than wog which is 10+ yo really. But it's true a good idea is not enough by itself, town conversion in h6 as a shouting example.
____________
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 02:30 PM |
|
|
Stevie said:
I'm not being that harsh with the community, the chunk of the blame still goes to whoever had the idea of an open dev and managed it like that. It's just that from that experiment I've come to War-Overlord's conclusion from back in the day that the broader audience is not a good adviser to have. Right now, my position is that the community should not be given a say with regards to game design.
That's the key for me. They simply handled it very poorly. Personally I feel that community input can be very relevant for the success of a product, if the method and processing of that input is handled well enough. Basically, it's like a sewer: if you put crap into it, you get crap out of it.
____________
The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 03:21 PM |
|
|
|
I think it is also a lot about an informed choice. What is the point you get to pick between multiple options and then it turns out what you picked isn't what you thought it was?
|
|
Drakon-Deus 
Undefeatable Hero
Nixonite
|
|
posted February 16, 2018 03:53 PM |
|
|
OhforfSake said:
What is the point you get to pick between multiple options and then it turns out what you picked isn't what you thought it was?
But that's how elections usually work. 
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
