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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Tower and first week problem
Thread: Tower and first week problem
DivineClio
DivineClio


Adventuring Hero
posted July 30, 2017 01:29 PM

Tower and first week problem

Hello guys! How is going?
After a while i decide to play some heroes&stuff , being a magefag in every game, i want to archive something really good with tower.
We all know that faction , slow start but epic end game. So having a excelent first week should be mandatory for win some online game with it.
Crypt no problem
Gnome no problem
Even resurce for build up the town isn t problem.
My problem are Nagas/Giants external structure at first week , i m not able to find find someway to not lose a lot of gremlins.
https://youtu.be/eCMFfpeveZs?t=6m13s
Here Maretti (THAGOD) , during one of this online game, show how he did it, but the lost are huge.
There isn t a way to lose , for example, some gargoyle/trash creture and <20 gremlins?
Plus another problem :
During my traning(Jebus Cross) i got the misfortune to fight abnormal number of medusa (alywas first week) because they are protecting an artifact + the drew..



Is possible to solve this problem week 1?

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ade7c
ade7c

Tavern Dweller
posted July 30, 2017 08:13 PM

The only way I can think of:

Slowing nagas down enough that you have enough time to skip turn, attack with gremlin of 1 stack so it get nagas retaliation, then attack with a gremlin that is a full stack(passed turn), when gremlins actual turn comes up back away.

But this might take too much time to position gremlins right or might be possible to pull this off only once.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 30, 2017 10:03 PM
Edited by Ebonheart at 22:09, 30 Jul 2017.

DivineClio said:
We all know that faction , slow start but epic end game.
Once you get warm in your clothes with it you will notice it can have one of the fastest starts of all due to the Gremlin numbers.
DivineClio said:
My problem are Nagas/Giants external structure at first week , i m not able to find find someway to not lose a lot of gremlins.
Battling the Naga/Giant dwellings follows the same tactic no matter which of them you enter. It is prefered to have your Nagas/Magi before you enter them but it is doable without (and without crucial losses). First you want your Gremlin stack and the last 6x slots shall be filled with 1x Gargoyles. You want your Gremlins on Slot 1 or 7. During your first turn you shield them in while 2x gargoyles are sent forward on the opposite map side (the plan is to lure the giants/naga to strike Gargoyle 1 and during R2 strike Gargoyle 2 and then have one of your Gargoyles soak the retaliation before you hammer them. Haste and Slow are very handy in these fight (ideally you will have Haste on 2x units for R3 so another Gargoyle can soak the retaliation (with slow it is easier, Magic Arrow can help aswell)). The bigger your army, the lower the risk for losses.
DivineClio said:
During my traning(Jebus Cross) i got the misfortune to fight abnormal number of medusa (alywas first week) because they are protecting an artifact + the drew..

Avoid fighting ranged creatures unless you can minimize the losses. Most Artifacts are seldomly worth the high costs of losing your creatures.
DivineClio said:
Is possible to solve this problem week 1?

I think the following things should be kept in mind when playing the tower:
1. Never upgrade your Gremlins Week 1. You lose 1-3 giant(s) on it and you lose offensive power as they deal less melee damage.
2. Burn your Gargoyles as fodder, never stack them. They are some of the best fodder in the game despite their cost.
3. Burn your Stone Golems as 1-stack fodder.
4. It's better to give up all of your Magi than half of your Gremlins. It might surprise you but the Master Gremlins in the end battle can hit even harder than your Titans if you have saved their hides.
5. If you see a Trading Post - secure it ASAP. This is your key to coming out with 2-5x Titans M1W2D1.
6. If you see the red orb - take note of its location and make sure you bring it to the end fight. The irony is real. The Wizard town is actually the town that is most deadly out of all the towns when all magic on the field is blocked due to your supreme ranged nature.
7. Spirit of Opression - Unless it has really powerful guards, sieze it.
8. Strive to have your main and secondary heroes Might ones. The rest of them are normally better off the more mana/power they have.
9. Don't build the Lookout Tower unless it is the last thing to build (and if you build it you only build it to admire its complementing design, not its function -.- ).
10. Avoid Archery until later and cower Offense/Tactics first. You will notice that while Expert Magic schools are handy when fighting the map, it is seldomly needed at Expert level with the Tower.
11. Unless there are several Genie Altars on the map. Use the Genies/Master Genies for Travel Speed on scouts or as fodder/soakers/buffers in your main army - do not stack them.
12. Discard any scout hero for a new Wizard Hero with Gremlins stacks each week (Remember to hate Piquedram).
13. If you are allowed to Hero select: Start with Aine (Neela if your luck with Heroes tends to be bad).
14. Use your Giants. For some reason an awful lot of players I have faced over the years avoids using them because they claim they are squishy (and yes they are rather soft) but that damage is deadly and their hit points lasts longer than you think.
15. Don't get snow-blind. In the sense that your army enjoys the +1 speed bonus on snow and that it is rather easy to forget that when heading into the other zone(s).
16. Make sure to take the Magi's spell bonus into your calculations.
17. Do not bring your Gremlins/Nagas into the Dragon Utopias.
18. Try to avoid very quick creatures on the map that can reach your units in the first turn. Unless you got Tactics the losses can be huge     .
Building order week 1 (with 2nd dwell pre-built):
D1: Mage Guild. D2: Golem Factory. D3: Magi Tower. D4: Naga Bank. D5: Altar of Wishes. D6: Cloud Temple. D7: Citadel.

Hope these tips will make your Tower adventure a joyful one!


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DivineClio
DivineClio


Adventuring Hero
posted July 30, 2017 11:46 PM
Edited by DivineClio at 23:46, 30 Jul 2017.

Oh wow for this reply ebonhearth
The problem with nagas are their hp : 660 hp 13 def is problem to deal with 4 mage and 60-80 gremlins
About giant is their offensive capacity , against week1 army they oneshot EVERYTHING , 1 position mistaken and boom! 1,5 naga / 50 gremlins gone!Need very very expert AI track which i don t have now.
Plus gremlin speed is so low that i find out build D1 mage guild(for haste/slow) not only handy but a must.

""Avoid fighting ranged creatures unless you can minimize the losses. Most Artifacts are seldomly worth the high costs of losing your creatures.""
Of course, but the artifact plus naga dwell? ouch!


1. I already do that. Good gremlin position make almost useless the upgrade.
4.Are you serious??
5.Noticed that in my last game (offline).Was the key for have good amount of gold , desperately needed and alywas short.
10. Here i mistake. I alywas take archery when i can (titan yeee)
13. Interesting , gold are alywas low ; any case i go straight for the best barbarain out of 8 heroes start i can get.(Maretti's principe )
14.SURE! 2-3 giant + fodder can clern up any hive without lose.
17.I will follow your tip, im practing for speed up the desert break, never trying utopia for now. A step at a time.
Thank you for the tip .



[URL]http://www.mediafire.com/file/8jas70ohabah8d5/136break.GM1[URL]
There is a save right after the desert break (100+ master genie) in 136, mediocre speed for online game, but was a *** challenge for me, if you would like take a look. I'm pretty proud for being able to take both lv7 dwell + frustating battle agaist 20 gorgon 1 week(restarted this battle 9-10 time).There i was lucky for having the balestra it tanked 200+ dmg.




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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 31, 2017 08:47 AM

DivineClio said:
Oh wow for this reply ebonhearth
The problem with nagas are their hp : 660 hp 13 def is problem to deal with 4 mage and 60-80 gremlins.
If you got Magi's you want to weaken the Nagas before you let the Gremlins hammer them, so kite them around the map using the Gargoyles as bait.
DivineClio said:
About giant is their offensive capacity , against week1 army they oneshot EVERYTHING , 1 position mistaken and boom! 1,5 naga / 50 gremlins gone!Need very very expert AI track which i don t have now.
Plus gremlin speed is so low that i find out build D1 mage guild(for haste/slow) not only handy but a must.
You always build Mage Guild M1W1D1 no matter the map. The Giant is strong on offense but rather weak on defense so you want to hit it hard before it gets a chance to hit on you (Haste/Slow is helpful). Gargoyles are like I said, key, in this fight. You want to lure the Giants to strike them in a way that it goes near your shielded group, but not so far that ir can strike your Gremlins, Magi, Nagas etc. If you position the Gargoyles in a chain (much like your Heroes on the map) you will notice that the Giants will always go for them. Making this dwelling, at least in my opinion, the easiest to beat out of all.
DivineClio said:
"Avoid fighting ranged creatures unless you can minimize the losses. Most Artifacts are seldomly worth the high costs of losing your creatures.""
Of course, but the artifact plus naga dwell? ouch!

You have to take into consideration how many troops you risk losing on the Archers. Normally it means a rather sharp decline in numbers for you and if you are unlucky, you might have fought them for a mediocre artifact that plays no role in the dwelling battle and there you lose even more numbers. Now don't get me wrong, some artifacts are worth sacrificing your creatures for, but some are best left alone until W2.
DivineClio said:
4.Are you serious??
Yes. Because your main stomping power comes from your Gremlins, Nagas and Giants. Unless there are 1-2+ Magi Towers Dwellings on the map, it is better to lose your Magi than a large chunk of your Gremlins.
DivineClio said:
10. Here i mistake. I alywas take archery when i can (titan yeee)
Always aim to have Archery later, but in the early days your only ranged unit is the Magi and so it is best left alone. Most important is Offense followed by Tactics. Air/Earth magic on that is just the icing on the cake. Logistics is a given one and Pathfinding can be considered. Leave Archery/Armorer for later unless you got no better choice offered.
DivineClio said:
13. Interesting , gold are alywas low ; any case i go straight for the best barbarain out of 8 heroes start i can get.(Maretti's principe )
Yes the Tower is a very gold intense town. This is why it is tricky to use in online games/online made maps for new players. But the trick for me tends to be to acquire 1-3 good might Heroes and 5-7 Wizards/Warlocks. Because with those you can often take towns or cripple a stack with, since you plan to get rid of them for a new hero (preferably one with Gremlins) anyway.
DivineClio said:
17.I will follow your tip, im practing for speed up the desert break, never trying utopia for now. A step at a time.
Aim to break into the desert area before M1W3D1 (it's not easy but practise). When you harvest the middle on M1W2D2 for instance  your gold problems greatly diminish. When fighting Dragon Utopias you want your Titan stack (do not bring Giants), 4-5x Master Genies for buffing/soaking/retaliation, and 1 Gargoyle and/or Stone Golem stack.
Nagas can be brought in but unless they come in high numbers, the dragons usually attacks them. Do not bring Gremlins/Magi.
DivineClio said:
I'm pretty proud for being able to take both lv7 dwell + frustating battle agaist 20 gorgon 1 week(restarted this battle 9-10 time).There i was lucky for having the balestra it tanked 200+ dmg.
Hehe yea nice job!

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DivineClio
DivineClio


Adventuring Hero
posted August 01, 2017 11:57 AM

Ebonheart said:
Aim to break into the desert area before M1W3D1 (it's not easy but practise). When you harvest the middle on M1W2D2 for instance  your gold problems greatly diminish.

Done



Some other usefull thing i learn:
Map size L.
Taking everything on the starting map, except guarded minor treasure/outbreaks with 6-7 scout + trading post allow you to have 25k gold build titan at 121!.
With external dwell the map must be total drained.

Scholar skill: alywas snobbed, in reality is importat! Not having haste/slow in starting town can be recovered from the other city and bring it to the main hero, a lot of turn for the main not wasted.
I will see if adv scholar on scout + wisdom on main hero and searching for force field can be a valid option , which make Aine the perfect starting hero on jebus cross map.
Basic wisdom + basic scholar + 350g/d + 9 on scholar skill tree.WOW

Tactics : estremily important for the desert break, superior to armor (for now), allow to buff nagas AND position master genie for ultime fodder or block in the first turn. Fighting lv 6 allow for 4-6 buff( 2-3 genie), before the first hit.
Became useless in case of force field+titan.





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Maag
Maag


Adventuring Hero
posted August 08, 2017 08:42 PM

DivineClio said:

1. I already do that. Good gremlin position make almost useless the upgrade.



I have thought so also, but then again. Looking Gremlin stats which is almost like an Imp, which is the worst level 1. Plus their speed... like a Stone Golem, bah.
Yeah, u need haste. Even if they get on snow extra +1 speed. Good for Tower is, u have Alchemists, which are equipped with Scholar. If u buy Mage Guild fast and also take spell scrolls + visit a lot level1 magic shrines, then u almost certainly get haste to your main, faster than with any other town! Plus later there is always change for haste or prayer aswell, when u bring in 1 stack Master Genies for casting. If u have also powerstack of Gremlins, why not cast to Gremlin sometimes, after casting to Giant/Titan/Naga Queens.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted August 09, 2017 08:49 PM

Aye but unlike the Imps the Gremlins tend to come in rather huge numbers. Those numbers can play a huge role in the later days of the game (considering you can get numbers over 300). Haste and Slow are handy to have but the better you get, the less you will need them.

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Maag
Maag


Adventuring Hero
posted August 11, 2017 09:44 PM
Edited by Maag at 21:50, 11 Aug 2017.

Ebonheart said:
Aye but unlike the Imps the Gremlins tend to come in rather huge numbers. Those numbers can play a huge role in the later days of the game (considering you can get numbers over 300). Haste and Slow are handy to have but the better you get, the less you will need them.



I disagree to part that later when u get better, u don't need them anymore that much (haste and slow). I think they are overall still some of best spells around. Most practical (mass haste and slow ofc). Yeah, we have prayer too, somewhat mass prayer could replace haste a little.
What i agree is, that yes - u have to save your MG's, whatever it takes almost. Cast on them "Antimagic", when your enemy has only one archer and from lower level. Especially when enemy has high spellpower. Or just keep resurrecting MG's

About 300+. I just had game, Jebus Cross Template. Only 1 external Gremlin's dwelling. Got them around 330 by end of month 1, week 4. Key is also not to take MG's into Utopia, unless u have exp. resurrection. The same if u play against powerful archers and can't protect MG's with spells.


The thing, what i do, is - i enter Utopia with Naga Queens and Giants. From there i just get enough gold to upgrade to Titans. Gems u get either from mines, resources on land somewhere or Naga Banks etc. I don't get how someone could enter Utopia with Titans and all that inside first month. Perhaps if buying only 3-4 Master Genies, ignoring all lower than level 5 units and not upgrading Nagas

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted August 12, 2017 08:46 AM

Maag said:

I disagree to part that later when u get better, u don't need them anymore that much (haste and slow). I think they are overall still some of best spells around. Most practical (mass haste and slow ofc). Yeah, we have prayer too, somewhat mass prayer could replace haste a little.
The spells are certainly great. But the more experienced you get the less you will need them. When play with Tower these days I actually tend to get annoyed by the offering of Magic Schools, Power and Knowledge, as I find them of little use during the map draining.
Maag said:
What i agree is, that yes - u have to save your MG's, whatever it takes almost. Cast on them "Antimagic", when your enemy has only one archer and from lower level. Especially when enemy has high spellpower. Or just keep resurrecting MG's

Well then you need the spells and the school to boot. xP
Maag said:
About 300+. I just had game, Jebus Cross Template. Only 1 external Gremlin's dwelling. Got them around 330 by end of month 1, week 4. Key is also not to take MG's into Utopia, unless u have exp. resurrection. The same if u play against powerful archers and can't protect MG's with spells.
Like I said - only Titans, Master Genies, Gargoyles, Stone Golems and sometimes Nagas into the Utopias. Even with Expert Resurrection, you risk losing crucial troops.
Maag said:
The thing, what i do, is - i enter Utopia with Naga Queens and Giants. From there i just get enough gold to upgrade to Titans. Gems u get either from mines, resources on land somewhere or Naga Banks etc. I don't get how someone could enter Utopia with Titans and all that inside first month. Perhaps if buying only 3-4 Master Genies, ignoring all lower than level 5 units and not upgrading Nagas
The marketplace on the map is your best friend. It is the key to have Titans early. Never bring Giants into the BBQ castle. xD

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DivineClio
DivineClio


Adventuring Hero
posted August 12, 2017 02:54 PM
Edited by DivineClio at 14:55, 12 Aug 2017.

Finally i found a good way!
With slow pretty easy with start tower hero 0/0/2/3 need a level up for +1 power or knowledge for enough slow turn, 4 mage kite with gargoyle + final blow with gremlins

With haste is a little tricky:
https://youtu.be/QP-SSluzQxU

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