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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Would Magic Schools Be Balanced IF These spells are banned? (slow and some others)
Thread: Would Magic Schools Be Balanced IF These spells are banned? (slow and some others)

Known Hero
posted September 26, 2017 06:25 AM

Would Magic Schools Be Balanced IF These spells are banned? (slow and some others)


If we banned Slow, Dimension Door, Fly, Town Portal, Do you think Magic schools would be Fairly Balanced? Would it be equal to have any of the magic schools as secondary skill?

It seems to me the answer is yes, although there are some strenghts and points still to be made:

1-)water school would be slightly just slightly stronger than others, just becuz it has the ability to CURE

2-)most buff/debuff (bless curse shield stone skin weakness) spells are quite similar and are toe to toe in term of strength (I have attached Curse evaluation so it can be compared to shield reduction/air shield reduction)

3-)Although earth magic has resurrection, summoning earth elementals is not really the best spell. Id take fire and air elementals over earth anyday.

4-) air shield and forgetfullness can be compared too. fairly the same

and here is curse damage reduciton evaluation by town ( I still didnt add values for HOTA I forgot sry)


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Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 26, 2017 09:27 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 09:52, 26 Sep 2017.

Ice, Fire, Lions, Desert, Swamp? Lol Is this about Heroes 3?

Anyway as default Earth and Air are best schools because of TP, Slow, Res and AD and Haste, Fly and DD.
What I did to balance these schools is make DD only once per day and TP only to nearest town.
Water Magic is also very good, with many useful spells.
Fire Magic is lacking behind. I boosted Fire Wall, Fireball, Landmine, Inferno and made Slayer a mass spell, that makes it a bit more attractive. It still lacks adventure spells though.

I also nerfed Slow, Haste, Bless and Curse, all were way to cheap and effective as mass spells.

I generally don't want to ban any spells, except maybe Disguise, which does'nt seem to do anything vs high level AI and AI does'nt seem to use it either.

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Legendary Hero
posted September 26, 2017 09:57 AM

When your solution to balance is to remove or weaken something, then I think you're also working on taking the fun out of the game.

If the only thing we are doing is to make schools competitive with each other, you could also try to come up with ideas of improving the weaker schools, making them more fun in the process, though that is more difficult than to simply delete something which already exists.

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Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 26, 2017 10:18 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 10:18, 26 Sep 2017.

Every school is great, what would we do without forgetfulness or clone, then blind or berserk. People focus on mass slow/haste but they forget the slaughter they perform when playing with expert berserk or blind abuse, or archangels clone for endless resurrection. Stop b!tching and enjoy the game, best custom maps will require to use every school at the given moment.

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Supreme Hero
posted September 26, 2017 11:11 AM

Yes always better is ballanced but in HIII you learn all spells in all game. "Schools" are very symbolic. Its not HIV where you learn only one school in one game. So in my mod which I tested I try add to HIII system from HIV. One gameplay one school. And I must to ballance schools. Spells ranking is needed. From 1 to 69. Which is the best.

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Adventuring Hero
posted September 26, 2017 02:31 PM

Fire magic needs a single hex damage spell like the traditional Flame Arrow or some such. Every direct damage spell is area effect (Fireball, Inferno, Armageddon, etc).

And as a corollary, replace the fireball damage from a Magog to Flame Arrow like the Gogs, or change the Fireball spell to act like Frost Ring where every creature except the one in the center of effect is damaged. I hardly ever upgrade the Gogs because there's too many times the Magogs can't shoot without causing damage to my own troops because of the area effect...  

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Known Hero
posted October 01, 2017 06:36 PM
Edited by batoonike at 18:44, 01 Oct 2017.

I like the idea of making other schools better. Basically water and fire need 2 things:
1. An early game spell that will be used in every battle and make each battle an easier version of itself. Regardless of creatures, numbers, skills etc, it just makes everything easier.
2. A later game adventure map spell that completely bypasses one core mechanic of the game. Like the way dimension door bypasses fights and geography and town portal bypasses long distances between towns.

And they have to be completely overpowered to be able to compete with haste, slow, dd, fly, town portal, resurrection.

Combat spell ideas:
* Bloodlust could double the number of attacks for the creature. On expert level it's a mass spell. If creature already has 2 attacks, it will have 4. Ballista with expert ballistics will have 4 as well.
* Fire spell that gives your unit drain (like vampire lord). Drain % depends on skill level. Not mass spell.
* Prayer could be level 1 spell with cost 5.
* Bless makes you immune to level 1-2 negative spells in addition to dealing max damage.
* Counterstrike could be level 1 spell with cost 5. Gives unlimited retaliations at expert level and is still mass spell.

Adventure map spell ideas:
* Water spell that switches caster location with another hero (friendly or enemy ). Can kick people out of castles if they are not in the upper hero slot.
* Water spell that gives you additional movement points depending on skill level. Can be cast 4 times per day. On expert level on flat grass you can get 2x further than with 4 dimension doors. You can't get around obstacles though.
* Fire spell that destroys a % of a neutral stack, enemy hero army or garrison. You don't get xp. Effectiveness depends on fire magic skill level, something like 5%, 10%, 15% but you can cast it up to 3 times per day.
* Fire spell that destroys a building in targeted town (friendly or enemy) and gives resources. The amount gained is % of their cost depending on skill level. Range is 1 square for each level of spell power. Has a chance to fail depending on skill level.

Now ask yourself if you would take some of these if enemy takes dimension door or slow.

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Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 01, 2017 07:12 PM

Instead of making more overpowered game-breaking stuff, how about DEpowering overpowered stuff, and powering weak stuff?


Nerfing Earth and Air:
- Make slow more expensive (10pts), level 2, only lasts a turn
- Same with Haste

- Town Portal doubles the cost, can only be cast once per WEEK
- Same with Dimension door
- Althugh it and Air Walk and Water Walk may still have to be banned from many maps...

- Resurrection spell is level 5

Improving Fire:
- Frenzy becomes a mass spell with Expert Fire
- Misfortune becomes level 1, always mass spell, takes 1/2/3 luck according to expertise.
- Better scaling of Sacrifice.  Sacrifice works on resurrecting Gold Dragons.

Improving Water:
- Teleport is more expensive but may teleport 2/3 creatures at advanced/expert level
- Clone increases the number of creatures in the Cloned stack with water mastery

Improving magic in general to par with Might:
- Damage spells work better with skill masteries. Instead of increasing "Base" damage so much, improve spell power modifier (make it consider x2 spell power with advanced, x3 with expert).
- Orb artifact effects of the same type stack.
CLICK on the image to discover H4 Greatest Mod!

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