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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Problem with extracting UI (Namerutan's)
Thread: Problem with extracting UI (Namerutan's)
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 05, 2017 12:02 AM

Problem with extracting UI (Namerutan's)

Hello, H4 community

I was hoping to receive support on a single, mindbreaking issue.

As you may know, we "solved" many stuff of namerutan's tool before.

You could extract the town screens while I could not (with my old computer).

However, this is a different issue. It seems the tool simply refuses to export this layer altogether.

You can take it out of a resource file and save it as an H4 file, but you can't export it as an .ora

Thus, I can't edit it.

I have though of doing with hex editing but as you see in the images, it has tens of confusing layers, so this is not viable.

Can anyone try exporting this file?

If not, I would hope someone with programming skills can override the program check for "files of the same name" (and no, there wasn't any, I even tried exporting to a empty folder)

It is a very strange error but I am not so surprised given the alpha-like state of the program...

If this image can be extracted, we can completely change the look and feel of the game. We can even make an H3-like interface for the nostalgics. Maybe that will make them come to modded h4





Any help and comment appreciated.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted December 05, 2017 06:40 PM

Key is not the same thing as name.

Namerutan never finished implementing the ability to extract, or even view, all resources. Only some of them are able to be edited and replaced as .ora files. It's likely that's what you've run into here.

I emailed him several times but, unfortunately, never received a response.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 05, 2017 11:22 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 23:23, 05 Dec 2017.

What's strange for me is that other UI elements can be extracted with no problem. This file has the same format as any other Layers file.

The preview even works perfectly. You *can* extract it. And view it. You just can't export it.

It's definitely a bug and not an unfinished feature.

And such a shame, because these are the most important layer files in the whole game actually...

I think it may be possible to fix this with hex editing on the namerutan .exe or auxiliary files, by disabling the "same key" check.

I don't have the necessary knowledge to do it, but someone with a background in hacking/cracking could potentially easily do so.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted December 05, 2017 11:59 PM

Definitely an unfinished feature. There was still work for him to do in order to make it so that all of the different resources could be exported / imported as .ora files. He worked on specific ones first, but never had the chance to generalize things so that it could be done for all.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 06, 2017 12:33 AM

That's the thing. This isn't a "different resource". It's the same resource type as the hundreds layers files that can be exported.

Also if it was something unfinished it woudn't say it "already exists" when it doesn't.

This is much like the accidental renaming of layers... a purely coincidental malfunction.

Of course the program is unfinished and many things were left half-done or not at all. But bugs are also part of unfinished business. The program crashes when you tell to "export all" from the original h4 .h4r file (where these UI features are), for example.

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted December 06, 2017 01:01 PM

I tried to modify interface.
1. Add dragon to 600x800 because is not.
2. Add beta interface.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted December 06, 2017 05:54 PM

AGAIN, "key" does not mean the same thing as "name". Same resource type or not, that means nothing if you're handling them in a different way in the program code.

You've said it yourself, you're not a programmer, so why are you arguing with me?

I was working side by side with Namerutan helping him test his program while he helped me work through bugs and test my H4 Advanced Options Map Editor, so I think I have some insight into the way things were left once Namerutan disappeared.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted December 08, 2017 11:13 PM

I have no insight to add, but simply that I've encountered the same issue with a different layer. One of the artifact layers reports the same error, while all others can be extracted just fine.
If you seek to replace the image anyway, why not simply create it as a new file? You can view the file name and image size..

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 09, 2017 07:34 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 07:35, 09 Dec 2017.

Quote:
I have no insight to add, but simply that I've encountered the same issue with a different layer. One of the artifact layers reports the same error, while all others can be extracted just fine.
If you seek to replace the image anyway, why not simply create it as a new file? You can view the file name and image size..


Because this particular file has about 20 layers, with each a different position.

Quote:
AGAIN, "key" does not mean the same thing as "name". Same resource type or not, that means nothing if you're handling them in a different way in the program code.

You've said it yourself, you're not a programmer, so why are you arguing with me?

I was working side by side with Namerutan helping him test his program while he helped me work through bugs and test my H4 Advanced Options Map Editor, so I think I have some insight into the way things were left once Namerutan disappeared.


I didn't say it is the same as name:
Quote:
I think it may be possible to fix this with hex editing on the namerutan .exe or auxiliary files, by disabling the "same key" check.


I am not a programmer but I can distinguish a bug from a feature. If something works in everything except an exception, gives an spurious error, and then crashes, it's obviously a bug.

Also I have encountered the "same key" error even when importing.

I have run tests

SUPRISE SURPRISE

It happens when two layers of the file have the same name.

SO KEY DID MEAN NAME IN THIS CASE, just not filename.

Test anim ORA:



Result:



The same file works if you remove or RENAME the redundant layer.

So now I think I can solve this by hex-renaming some layers before and after import.
Who needs programming after all

(Another layer naming problem, just like the one before... and I kept telling to include layer rename capability during development... -_-)

I was going to say "another problem overcome, not thanks to you". But actually it IS thanks to you. If not for having to prove you wrong, I would have probably never found the cause error.

So thank you ; )





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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted December 11, 2017 05:41 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 13:45, 14 Dec 2017.

Clearly you are not able to do so, and I'm not going to educate you.

I have been looking through the source code for Namerutan's tool, but since you want to continue, I'm just going to let it sit where it is.

MOD NOTE: insults removed

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted December 11, 2017 07:24 PM

Peace! Dont make hell here. We should be friends. I know that people have various temperaments. But try to moderate it. We will do more of one will be support the second...

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted December 11, 2017 10:41 PM

iliveinabox05 said:
Clearly you are not able to do so, and I'm not going to educate you.

I have been looking through the source code for Namerutan's tool, but since you want to continue being a child, I'm just going to let it sit where it is.

Edit: The only thing you have proven is that you're a moron, which is also evidenced by your interactions with Luc.


Just like Salamandre's 'prediction' of the conversation between Nimo and Luc, the above post could have been easily foreseen, though I decided not to comment it at the time. Now while I can't blame iLiVe for his response,
I agree with Baronus that this isn't really contributing with anything constructive for the community.

Nimo, there's no denying your achievements in modding H4, but sometimes you really present yourself with a superior behavior (or arrogance some might say) that is bound to spawn offensive behavior from others. Sadly, coz you have both achieved stuff, we haven't seen before with H4 modding, if only you were to collaborate instead of going solo/offending the other.
It's ironic how in some areas you've been the driving force, while in others you keep putting a stick in the wheel. Just sharing my observation...
____________

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted December 12, 2017 10:11 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 11:27, 12 Dec 2017.

The only "stick in the wheel" has been from "iliveinabox05" saying "Oh no, it can't be done!" and his incorrect assumptions about the tool, telling me to not bother with it while I was asking for simple help.

The same happened in my first modding post here, where I said I wanted to do a big H4 mod with overall modifications to the game mechanics and graphics. What did people say "oh no that's impossible" "I stopped reading right there" "shut up kiddo"

So if not for my "arrogance" we would have gotten nowhere.

I have showed in this case that not only were my assumptions correct, but also that I could solve the issue based on them. "Clearly you haven't been able to do it"; Hah! I can publish the thing this very day.

Perhaps my way of expressing myself is not always pleasant. But it is because the constant roadblocks I am offered instead of support aren't pleasant either. Like Luc saying "your mod doesn't work" while it clearly does. Or Ilive here saying there is no bug and nothing to bother about researching or solving where there clearly was one. And I have solved it.



"Key has nothing to do with names", "its an unfinished feature", "there is no way to do it", "not a bug", "its not about a check", "shut up you are no programmer",  my rear. Even after I have been forced to prove all by myself otherwise with empyrical evidence, still has the guts to attack me instead of just admitting I was right and helping with the next development step.



Evidently I should be the one to "educate" him.



But since it should be clear now that I was right, and HE was the one that attacked me out of pure EGO, why take his side, as if I had done wrong?
Not only was I correct, but furthermore he was the one that got agressive with me, basking at his suppossed """knowledge""" and about my """ignorance""" while it turned out to be much the opposite.

Moreover that it was my procedure the one that, yet again, allowed us to bypass this error he woudn't even admit to existing even as I lay it in front of the eyes of everyone to see...

And all for H4 modding. Guess I should quit then, and let "iliveinabox" do the job. Shame that he doesn't.


"Clearly you are not able to do it, and I will not educate you"

I have done it (what you said wasn't possible) with the principles I exposed here (which you snubly insisted were completely ignorant and incorrect). And I have educated here with illustrations so you or any others can do it too. Anything else?


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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted December 12, 2017 09:13 PM

If you feel I'm taking his side, then you've missed my point.
I know iLiVe has a temper, and I'm pretty sure he also know I don't always agree with his way of handling matters.

I'm not denying you your right to be annoyed by the lack of support you've encountered early on, but rather than calling it 'your arrogane' I belive it to be 'your drive' . It's clearly that you're driven by your belief in your talents and the facts that you want to prove yourself right and other wrong. So what puzzles me, is that you keep getting annoyed by such people/comments/reactions, when you - as you state yourself - keep proving them wrong. Also why not focus on those who actually support your work?

I could keep going on, but true your part is really no worse than any others. Someone threw a stone, and no one seems to be willing to be the first to stop or even ask why a stone was thrown in the first place.
But this just seems to be the downside of the Internet in general.

I'll just leave it, by congratulating you with your progress and succes ...

____________

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted December 13, 2017 05:37 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 13:47, 14 Dec 2017.

I've never said "It can't be done." I simply said that's where Namerutan left things. Did you missed the part where I said I would be looking into Namerutan's tool? Did you miss the part where I said I had access to the code for his tool?

So, enjoy all the hex editing and remember, you could have had a nice easy way to do things,

Also, if you feel like Karmakeld is taking my side, maybe that's because

Also also, I certainly did not throw a stone. All I did was state the problem with the tool: It's unfinished.

MOD NOTE: insults removed

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mirage
mirage

Tavern Dweller
posted December 13, 2017 08:26 PM
Edited by mirage at 20:36, 13 Dec 2017.



(pls dont kill each other guys ok? we clearly dont have enough active modders and programmers here and we should not waste the few existing ones...)

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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted December 14, 2017 07:58 AM

We cant be here in this way. I dont want tell who is guilty because it always make hell. So I dont tell about concretly persons. All this ,,discussion" has gone bad road. We cant behawe like possesed. This community is friendly, with good atmosphere. It must be cultivated. Highway to Heaven!

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted December 14, 2017 01:43 PM

@iliveinabox05 consider this an official warning. there is to be no insulting of other members.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted December 14, 2017 05:42 PM

Kiryu, I sent you a private message. Please go read it.

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