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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Isometric games similar to H4 in art... for new objects!
Thread: Isometric games similar to H4 in art... for new objects!
NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 29, 2016 11:05 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 12:40, 30 Oct 2016.

Isometric games similar to H4 in art... for new objects!

Note: moderator, please change title from "game" to "games", it was a typo. fine

I am actually asking you,

Which isometric games you know that have a similar art style than Heroes IV?

In this way, one could relatively easily extract and import their assets to Heroes IV when the tools are ready to do so.

This was done for WOG, for example.

I can think of the next games in the modern/sci-fi category:
- C&C Tiberian Sun & Expansion (Quite similar style)
- C&C Red Alert 2 (Not so similar, sharper, more cartoony)
- Starcraft (Quite similar style, but too defined edges)

In the medieval style, I can only think of this right now:
- Age of Empires II (More cartoony, sharper)

Take into account for similarity of art style, which all or nearly all Heroes 4 objects share:

- Heroes 4 objects don't have "Lines" around or inside them
- They are rendered from 3D objects, and mostly unprocessed later.
- They look like the old way of 3D. They DON'T look like pixel art.
- Isometric perspective.
- Edges and transitions look mostly blurry
- Unsharpened, smooth look
- Subdued, non-crisp textures
- Shadows point for the North-West (up-left)
- Sun / light comes from South-East (down-right)
- Relatively low saturation
- Unhighlighted details
- Relatively low contrast
- Near-uniform lighting / illumination
- Quite high gamma/brightness

Similarity of art style is not trivial, as it will determine how well an object would blend with others. But one could name games with not so similar art, as long as it is isometric, because we can process it (for example, blur pixels a bit or delete black outer lines)
Shadows from other games also can be changed orientation or deleted altogether.

Of course, 2d images from the default game could be edited one by one too, but there are thousandws of them, so this would be way harder than making new ones fit to the existing style.

3D objects technically can be used too, but they require rendering to isometric 2D mode and thus are harder. The good part is then we have full control over the style, light and shadow to make it fit perfectly (with a good rendering template).

Help with this and some of the objects of your favorite game can be converted on Heroes IV objects!


The ancients left some high technology here from before the Silence : P


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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted October 30, 2016 12:36 PM

Very interesting, but we dont have h4d defmaker ((( If someone eg. people from facetools, will make this we can add new objects.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted October 30, 2016 12:52 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 12:55, 30 Oct 2016.

Diablo 2


Also Disciples 2


Age of Empires I with some tweaks

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nostradamus
nostradamus


Adventuring Hero
posted October 30, 2016 12:58 PM

I was fan for c&c red alert 2 and yuri´s revenge,also tiberian dawn,this is amazing how art or graphics are similar or they use the same concept,perhaps games from similar age or year as heroes IV are(2003)could be compatible.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Jonny Come Sometime
posted October 30, 2016 01:43 PM

well I wouldn't say, don't do it, but I'd still steer clear of this kind of mix and match asset ripping of other games personally unless someone is doing a total conversion lol

this kind of thing is what made WoG look tacky, realistically it's possible to homebrew H4 style buildings oneself now without massive trouble IMO lol
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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
Tutto è possibile
posted October 30, 2016 01:54 PM
Edited by AlHazin at 13:55, 30 Oct 2016.

Diablo 1 too, its graphics were good for 1997.



Check that : The Best Isometric Video Games.
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"The Erwin is out there as they say once in a while lol" - Verriker.
A felt change of consciousness - Markkur.
Use this code in Creature Quest! t2QEc#j7h

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 30, 2016 06:12 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:48, 30 Oct 2016.

I remember Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II now...

Baronus: Namerutan is working on it, we may not have it today, and perhaps not tomorrow, but as long as he doesn't abandon his project, we will have it!
And if not, then I will code them with hex editing myself!

* * *

verriker: One should be able to tell that I am very wary of that, that is why I made a list of traits shared by all Heroes 4 3d/isometric art...

WOG just imported everything and did not care, most of their assets even are pixelized like hell, badly converted, etc.

In my screenshot, in contrast, I heavily edited the assets with Photoshop CS6 so that they reasonably fit in (mirrored objects for illumination, changed shadows, unsharpened, desaturated colors, blur mask, etc. etc.). The last one, Psychic Sensor, which was the last one I made, to the left, looks indistinghishable in style to the rest of the objects.

Even in WOG, however, one could make a map wholly from the objects of a single game and it would look good (for example, all age of empires objects). It was the mixing and matching of the art styles that made it look crappy, a thing I will altogether avoid and/or fix very cautiously. I can make photoshop templates for the "conversion" of different game art to H4, with an automated series of adjusting actions for each differing art style.

That's also why I asked principally for games *similar in style* and not just any game.

I'd say for example Diablo 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate I and II, Disciples, for example (and now I realize: Stronghold)... have MUCH closer graphics in style to H4 than Age of Empires or Red Alert (those are sharper, brighter, and in the case of the latter more saturated), and that by including the ones that coincide (with high quality the appropiate retourchs, unlike in WOG), you won't break the immersion and style of the game.



*******

To everyone:
Good calls! Thanks for your suggestions and keep it rolling, there are many games out there.
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted October 30, 2016 06:58 PM

If you know how to edit its wonderfull! Give tutorial. But it cant be eg. Heroesciples. It must be prepared to fit MM world.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2016 08:38 PM

Please, don't uderestimate WoG. Without WoG there weren't be all HoMM editing tools and progressing years of quality.
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 31, 2016 03:22 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 03:23, 31 Oct 2016.

I don't underestimate it at all, WoG was probqably the first best great thing to happen to H3, a base from which all other mods doubtlessly came (either for or against, as in the case of HotA). My answers are only based on responding to Veriker's fear that the graphic style will be inconsistent "as in WoG". But we are 10 years ahead of that and the tools are much more advanced now, as well as they were more interested for their "object packs" in quantity and variety than in fitting in.

Furthermore, H3 has no definite perspective, it is purely a 2D decorated "map"... while H4 has a very definite perspective, and we will use games only with that very same perspective, which makes the "unfitting" look many WoG buildings have (because of rendering in different perspectives)... much, much more unlikely.
Also, H3 has a much harder to accomplish visual style (rich pixel art) than H4 one, which is quite near to generic rendered isometric RPGs of around that time.
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nostradamus
nostradamus


Adventuring Hero
posted October 31, 2016 02:41 PM

Nimo,can player implement except 6 health rings,other rings too?Like ring of light(+10strength).I wanted to test strength on combat heroes also,but I know there´s limit.I had tiger helm(+5 strength)+2 rings of light but I couldn´t exceed the max.,which is I believe 592 units of strength.I refer to your upcoming mod,of course.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Jonny Come Sometime
posted October 31, 2016 04:31 PM

I'm not really bothered solely just because it can look fine or not, I just kinda figure, aren't we more sincere than that, I mean in 2016 the community has sort of moved past the whole laissez faire asset stripping and ripping from other games lol

of course there is asset ripped placeholders in our Ashan of the Trashcan, but that mod will not be released and is deliberately as far from sincere as you can get lol

but like I say don't mind me, I completely respect you guys whatever you will do, that's just my personal take that original content is the only way to go lol
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted October 31, 2016 04:35 PM

verriker said:

of course there is asset ripped placeholders in our Ashan of the Trashcan, but that mod will not be released and is deliberately as far from sincere as you can get lol



I didn't say that lol
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Jonny Come Sometime
posted October 31, 2016 04:39 PM

LizardWarrior said:
I didn't say that lol


meh you know what I'm on about mate, it's parody in large part lol
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 31, 2016 07:59 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 20:02, 31 Oct 2016.

The corporations that made these games already "ripped" their own assets or those of others plenty of times... for example the Stronghold assets were "ripped" to make Stronghold Online.
Plus most of these are close to twenty years old, hardly "cutting edge".

Furthermore I think it's fair use as long as it isn't for profit, and this isn't a competing "Product". If we get a cease and desist letter we would remove them, but do they really care? My guess seeing that WOG has used for over ten years, is a resounding "no".

Plus modding already includes "ripping" the assets of the original game, modifying and redistributing them. Changing the color of the Sharpshooter then, I don't see why it's not an equal offense to "importing" a sharpshooter from another game, if we are going to moralize the issue. And I think the actual artists would like to see their stuff is still used.

Also, I would like to play the Ashan to the Trashcan mod, if not distributed, what is the point in actually taking the job of making it? :v

* * * * *

As for Nostradamus... please refer questions about game mechanics in my mod to the Mod thread, this is only for graphics adding.
But the answer is fairly simple... there's no point in multiplying strenght artifacts as strenght max is already hardcoded and you can edit strenght in the hero's properties.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 01, 2016 01:32 AM

verriker said:
LizardWarrior said:
I didn't say that lol


meh you know what I'm on about mate, it's parody in large part lol


Ashan to the Trashcan Mod is politics.
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Baronus
Baronus


Supreme Hero
posted November 01, 2016 06:32 PM

Really only one thing is importat. Does the resorurces fit to game or not.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 01, 2016 08:24 PM

Quote:
Ashan to the Trashcan Mod is politics.


Ashan to the Trashcan makes Ubi kids cry and Erwin have nightmares

Quote:
Really only one thing is importat. Does the resorurces fit to game or not.


Well, that was my only point before the Elder Gods squad came here, raining their many red and yellow stars upon our lowly Axeothian lands : P
But, yes, I still agree...
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